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[NT] NTPs: Leaders?

yenom

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When you make statements like the bolded you are forgetting about Ni's influence on Te. We may not appear as though we are adapting but that is because we have already foreseen most scenarios.

Anyone can draw arrows on a map and predict outcomes. Its what happens in the battlefield that matters.
 

Valiant

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"Mao Tze Tung... J.
And there we have the inventors of modern guerilla warfare."


I do suspect thr Scots were indulging in gerilla warfar LONG before that, and I'm sure they weren't the only ones.

Yes, raiding parties etc. Hit and run.
I see what you're saying, and I agree.
Mao and Che along with several others, have created the modern variant of it, though.
Good thinking, though.

It's a lot about psychology, what could probably best be described as modern day terrorism.
It's not a question about how many you kill, it's how, when and why.
They had the screws, bolts and parts from all over the world, but they made it into a running car. So to speak.

Too many variables to call it a lack of imagination, too.
 

Frank

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Anyone can draw arrows on a map and predict outcomes. Its what happens in the battlefield that matters.

Agreed. That is why Te is valuable in these situations. It is implementing that counts on the battlefield.
 

tinkerbell

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Yes, raiding parties etc. Hit and run.
I see what you're saying, and I agree.
Mao and Che along with several others, have created the modern variant of it, though.
Good thinking, though.

It's a lot about psychology, what could probably best be described as modern day terrorism.
It's not a question about how many you kill, it's how, when and why.
They had the screws, bolts and parts from all over the world, but they made it into a running car. So to speak.

Too many variables to call it a lack of imagination, too.

sny tribal of clan cluture will lend itself toward gureillar warfare because they lack popuation... Vikings come to mind too, and tribal cultures in Arica of old and present day... not sure if it trurely classed in that way, but where strategy lends people higher power than their numbers would allow.
 

SUPER

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Depends what you're leading.

I have no desire to lead/supervise of bunch of people getting paid $10 an hour.

I would however love to lead a professional sports team. I believe Marc Cuban (owner of Dallas Mavericks) is typed as ENTP by some people
 

entropie

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Tho its a thing prolly noone likes to admit, but I work best as a follower. I was made a leader often in my life and I am prolly still to some, but that's a different kind of leader.

I have the problem in doing quick decisions. I tend to think too long. And I think and work best, when there is someone at the helm setting the pace. In that moments I even start to think faster than the one at the helm and anticipate things, so make for a valueable team member.

I am playing that spaceship combat game at the moment and there it shows best. If I'ld be concerned with delegating the problems of everyone, I would be totally overstrained. It does not only narrow down my capability of finding solutions to problems but also does exhaust me.

It's a good thing to have a fast-paced decision maker at the helm and it's the only opportunity for me to show my double-fast paced skills, cause without a helmsman like that, I'ld get caught up in thoughts.
 

CJ99

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Tho its a thing prolly noone likes to admit, but I work best as a follower. I was made a leader often in my life and I am prolly still to some, but that's a different kind of leader.

I have the problem in doing quick decisions. I tend to think too long. And I think and work best, when there is someone at the helm setting the pace. In that moments I even start to think faster than the one at the helm and anticipate things, so make for a valueable team member.

I am playing that spaceship combat game at the moment and there it shows best. If I'ld be concerned with delegating the problems of everyone, I would be totally overstrained. It does not only narrow down my capability of finding solutions to problems but also does exhaust me.

It's a good thing to have a fast-paced decision maker at the helm and it's the only opportunity for me to show my double-fast paced skills, cause without a helmsman like that, I'ld get caught up in thoughts.

I agree with entropie! I make a pretty good assistant leader or second in demand but not as much a main leader.

I hate having to make the decisions. Give me a job and I can do it. Give me a team of people and I can often get them doing it. Give me a team of poeple and tell me to tell them what to do and I'm screwed!!!!!:doh:

Leaders need to direct/push people into the right direction but I hate telling people what to do. I can get poeple thinking about what to do but not tell them what to do!

So I think unless your in a really democratic group ENTPs are not good leaders. If you are in a democratic creative group though I think ENTPs are probably one of the best leaders.
 

redcheerio

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Actually, I think NTPs might make better leaders than managers. At least, that's how it seems to me.

A lot of the things managers do seem like glorified admin assistance (keeping track of random details, following up, keeping details organized), while leadership is more about thinking things through, strategic analysis, and making important decisions. To me, leadership seems exciting, while management seems like drudgery.

(To clarify, admin assistants are very valuable, I love working with them, I'm just saying that it's something I would hate and be horrible at.)
 

thisGuy

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This thread should be titled: "NTPs: Managers" - the word 'leader' limits what a true leader should be; the word 'manager' is much more inclusive.


What matters more than type is what motivates you and how you view the world:
-do you WANT to be the leader that tells his troops what to do or supports his troops in everything they do?
-is your sole purpose is to meet the objective set out by your superiors or do you care about your troops enough to help them develop to?

THEN and only then can you speculate about type suitabilities:
General rules:

Js need to be more empathetic:
-be open to other people's idea. give other ideas a fair chance.
-DO yourself (to a lesser degree) the tasks you expect others to do so you gain an appreciation for photocopying a 3000 page ledger.
-Be kind. Its (usually) more beneficial than being right.

Ps need to be more disciplined and structured:
-by thinking before making decision. let the decision percolate in your head for a bit before taking action.
-BE more inflexible. Let go of the comfort you find in fluidity of life.
-have a logical explanation for changing your decisions.
 

INTPness

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If we're painting with very broad strokes, the type I'd most like to follow would - hands down - be an "ethical ENTJ." I've seen good INTJ leaders, but the ENTJ's are so much more ready and willing to network and engage with people. ENTJ's are better suited to "lead a large organization", whereas the INTJ might lead a small group of people or just themselves and one other person. ENTP's are awesome in their creativity and all that, and I've seen them make good leaders too. But, if they're always "out to lunch" or "taking the day off", it's kind of hard to follow that. If my boss was like that, I'd probably just stop communicating with him and do everything myself. I'd feel like I couldn't rely on him. And that's why ENTJ's are good. Outgoing *and* consistent. And they have good vision. INTP's = out to lunch *and* introverted. :D

I'm capable of leading, but it takes me so far away from the things I'm best at (working independently and efficiently on my own) that when the project gets "too large" I start to feel a bit like a fish out of water.
 

INTPness

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Personally, I find some of the methods used by NTPs to be very odd...
None work in a steady pace, they all kind of sit around recuperating and then spring into action and get things done very fast.
It works really well, and they can handle all sorts of weird crisis scenarios awfully good.

Haha, even though you said this over 1.5 years ago, it's so true. Good observation. I LOL'd at "they all sit around recuperating.................."

I swear, when I'm in Ti mode people think I'm doing *nothing*. Like I'm just staring at the wall or something. Actually, what I'm doing is devouring information at the speed of light, so that I can goof around later that night and don't have to think about work all weekend. And, just cuz I have no desire to work 74 hours a week, doesn't mean I'm lazy. It means I have a life away from work. This isn't aimed at you YLJ, aimed at workaholics around the globe, who think that anyone who works less hours than them is............"doing nothing".
 

Valiant

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Haha, even though you said this over 1.5 years ago, it's so true. Good observation. I LOL'd at "they all sit around recuperating.................."

I swear, when I'm in Ti mode people think I'm doing *nothing*. Like I'm just staring at the wall or something. Actually, what I'm doing is devouring information at the speed of light, so that I can goof around later that night and don't have to think about work all weekend. And, just cuz I have no desire to work 74 hours a week, doesn't mean I'm lazy. It means I have a life away from work. This isn't aimed at you YLJ, aimed at workaholics around the globe, who think that anyone who works less hours than them is............"doing nothing".

Hey, a resourceful NP or SP beats most Js when it matters. Seen it happen so many times it's impossible to count. :b A very few select Js who have mastered something can indeed work in that insane pace all the time, though... That can be scary as hell.
I mean, some of the J electricians i've seen out there... Crap! :O
 

INTPness

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Hey, a resourceful NP or SP beats most Js when it matters. Seen it happen so many times it's impossible to count. :b A very few select Js who have mastered something can indeed work in that insane pace all the time, though... That can be scary as hell.
I mean, some of the J electricians i've seen out there... Crap! :O

Sssshhhh. Don't tell the other J's this. It'll be our little secret.
 

Valiant

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Sssshhhh. Don't tell the other J's this. It'll be our little secret.

If you say so :O "It'll be our little secret" is such a movie pedophile phrase. *shudders* xD
 

INTPness

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If you say so :O "It'll be our little secret" is such a movie pedophil phrase. *shudders* xD

Hahaha. *realizes he's been exposed*. No, I just mean a lot of J's wouldn't confess that a P could outperform them or be more productive for even 1 second.

We're just inconsistent, that's all. We're productive in spurts. Nothing for several hours (except reading, learning, observing, thinking).............and then when it gets to be crunch time or a crisis hits, WHAMO. It's action time. And I'm getting it done as fast and efficiently as humanly possible. No time wasted on silly stuff. Bingo. Bamo. Done. But, yeah, we can't keep that up for super long periods of time. J's are marathon runners who jog at a nice steady pace. P's are sprinters who run really fast, then need to take a break. Then run really fast again, take another break.
 

Valiant

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Hahaha. *realizes he's been exposed*. No, I just mean a lot of J's wouldn't confess that a P could outperform them or be more productive for even 1 second.

We're just inconsistent, that's all. We're productive in spurts. Nothing for several hours (except reading, learning, observing, thinking).............and then when it gets to be crunch time or a crisis hits, WHAMO. It's action time. And I'm getting it done as fast and efficiently as humanly possible. No time wasted on silly stuff. Bingo. Bamo. Done. But, yeah, we can't keep that up for super long periods of time. J's are marathon runners who jog at a nice steady pace. P's are sprinters who run really fast, then need to take a break. Then run really fast again, take another break.

Yeps. This is also pretty much why Ps and especially NPs should work in areas where there's downtime and spurts of action. Like soldiering, healthcare and stuff that requires a touch of that P-type inspirationâ„¢.
 

INTPness

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Yeps. This is also pretty much why Ps and especially NPs should work in areas where there's downtime and spurts of action. Like soldiering, healthcare and stuff that requires a touch of that P-type inspirationâ„¢.

Mainly, we just like to be our own boss, so that we can decide when we are inspired. :D It's hard to force inspiration. Like if someone goes, "Hey!!!! I have an emergency. I waited until the very last minute to do something and now I desperately need your help." How am I supposed to be inspired or motivated by that? But, yeah, if something crops up naturally that requires quick action, then we're usually able to handle those situations fairly well.
 

jimrckhnd

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Hrm... in my experience INTPs can make effective leaders under the following conditions:

1) the organization is small

2) the organization is composed of highly motivated/talented people

3) Their leaders feed them challenging assignments and shield them as much as possible from the mundane.
4) The individual is carefully selected for her/his ability to have developed at least a minimal competence in personal interactions (no, all INTPs are not socially crippled – many of them, esp. as they grow older have reasonably well developed social skills).

I've seen this combination work before when these people were given leadership roles in small, specialized elements tasked with unusual or unusually difficult assignments. Load them down with alot of bureaucratic procedures and tasks - they get bored, frustrated and fizzle.
 

jimrckhnd

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We're just inconsistent, that's all. We're productive in spurts. Nothing for several hours (except reading, learning, observing, thinking).............and then when it gets to be crunch time or a crisis hits, WHAMO. It's action time. And I'm getting it done as fast and efficiently as humanly possible. No time wasted on silly stuff. Bingo. Bamo. Done. But, yeah, we can't keep that up for super long periods of time. J's are marathon runners who jog at a nice steady pace. P's are sprinters who run really fast, then need to take a break. Then run really fast again, take another break.

That is why my prefered role in any orginization is to be called in to deliver specific results relevant to my skill sets and I don't mind doing that in difficult environments. Sort of a class fireman role - but leave me the heck alone in between times. However there is always stuff to do in between crisis modes - and that is why my situation which offers me a little time in the field, a little time in the lab, and a little time in the office works well. Keeps me from getting stale and bored.

But honestly... I'm great in a crisis: when everybody is wigging out I'm normally pretty cool and effective.
 
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