[NT] NT's and earning money

[ajblaise]

Like most ENTP's I have no difficulty making money, and never had, I've been working since I was about 11 (partime in family businesses until I was 17 or so).

Nah, you're thinking of your ENTJ cousins. ENTPs are bums.


Highest Average Annual Household Income
(From highest to lowest)

1. ENTJ (84,434)
2. ESTJ (76,238)
3. ESFJ (74,882)
4. INTJ (72,043)
5. ENFJ (71,060)
6. ISTJ (71,020)
7. ESTP (69,323)
8. ISTP (67,349)
9. ENFP (66,210)
10. INTP (64,872)
11. INFJ (64,372)
12. ISFP (64,166)
13. ISFJ (63,870)
14. ESFP (63,281)
15. ENTP (62,960)
16. INFP (61,565)

Highest Education Level
(From highest to lowest)
The scale used to compute these statistics is from 1 to 6, with 1 being lowest (did not graduate high school) and 6 being highest (PhD or equivalent).

1. ENTJ (4.12)
2. INTJ (3.93)
3. ESTJ (3.83)
4. ISTJ (3.78)
5. ESTP (3.73)
6. INFJ (3.72)
7. ENFP (3.69)
8. INTP (3.69)
9. INFP (3.67)
10. ESFP (3.63)
11. ENFJ (3.60)
12. ESFJ (3.62)
13. ISTP (3.59)
14. ISFJ (3.58)
15. ENTP (3.54)
16. ISFP (3.52)

 

[highlander]

Sounds pretty straight-forward and reasonable to me. I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about this.

+1

 

[INTPness]

Why ISFJs?!?! I am mindboggled.

Just to go along with the silliness that has become this thread. I too am mindboggled.

Why? Oh who knows.... the possibilities are endless! (amidoingitrite??)

I think you're an ISFJ bajillionaire in disguise. And yes, you're doing great.

 

[JustHer]

Nah, you're thinking of your ENTJ cousins. ENTPs are bums.


Highest Average Annual Household Income
(From highest to lowest)

1. ENTJ (84,434)
2. ESTJ (76,238)
3. ESFJ (74,882)
4. INTJ (72,043)
5. ENFJ (71,060)
6. ISTJ (71,020)
7. ESTP (69,323)
8. ISTP (67,349)
9. ENFP (66,210)
10. INTP (64,872)
11. INFJ (64,372)
12. ISFP (64,166)
13. ISFJ (63,870)
14. ESFP (63,281)
15. ENTP (62,960)
16. INFP (61,565)

Highest Education Level
(From highest to lowest)
The scale used to compute these statistics is from 1 to 6, with 1 being lowest (did not graduate high school) and 6 being highest (PhD or equivalent).

1. ENTJ (4.12)
2. INTJ (3.93)
3. ESTJ (3.83)
4. ISTJ (3.78)
5. ESTP (3.73)
6. INFJ (3.72)
7. ENFP (3.69)
8. INTP (3.69)
9. INFP (3.67)
10. ESFP (3.63)
11. ENFJ (3.60)
12. ESFJ (3.62)
13. ISTP (3.59)
14. ISFJ (3.58)
15. ENTP (3.54)
16. ISFP (3.52)

Hurrah!! Look at me.. all rich and educated!!

 

[theadoor]

You know, personally I believe, that ''There are lies, great lies and statistics!''

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not gonna be a bum!

 

[jenocyde]

Nah, you're thinking of your ENTJ cousins. ENTPs are bums.


Highest Average Annual Household Income
(From highest to lowest)

1. ENTJ (84,434)
2. ESTJ (76,238)
3. ESFJ (74,882)
4. INTJ (72,043)
5. ENFJ (71,060)
6. ISTJ (71,020)
7. ESTP (69,323)
8. ISTP (67,349)
9. ENFP (66,210)
10. INTP (64,872)
11. INFJ (64,372)
12. ISFP (64,166)
13. ISFJ (63,870)
14. ESFP (63,281)
15. ENTP (62,960)
16. INFP (61,565)

Highest Education Level
(From highest to lowest)
The scale used to compute these statistics is from 1 to 6, with 1 being lowest (did not graduate high school) and 6 being highest (PhD or equivalent).

1. ENTJ (4.12)
2. INTJ (3.93)
3. ESTJ (3.83)
4. ISTJ (3.78)
5. ESTP (3.73)
6. INFJ (3.72)
7. ENFP (3.69)
8. INTP (3.69)
9. INFP (3.67)
10. ESFP (3.63)
11. ENFJ (3.60)
12. ESFJ (3.62)
13. ISTP (3.59)
14. ISFJ (3.58)
15. ENTP (3.54)
16. ISFP (3.52)

The thing is that I have no way to interpret this - how many people were questioned? What region of the world, or country, were these participants taken from? Did all these people live in the same area, with the same cost of living taken into consideration? Etc... These numbers really mean nothing on their own. Where is the raw data?

That being said, I - as a person - made more money than the "average" ENTJ household last year.

 

[Liason]

Well, being more success oriented, I can only see that one /should/ be concerned with earning a usable and reliable income.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Nah, you're thinking of your ENTJ cousins. ENTPs are bums.


Highest Average Annual Household Income
(From highest to lowest)

1. ENTJ (84,434)
2. ESTJ (76,238)
3. ESFJ (74,882)
4. INTJ (72,043)
5. ENFJ (71,060)
6. ISTJ (71,020)
7. ESTP (69,323)
8. ISTP (67,349)
9. ENFP (66,210)
10. INTP (64,872)
11. INFJ (64,372)
12. ISFP (64,166)
13. ISFJ (63,870)
14. ESFP (63,281)
15. ENTP (62,960)
16. INFP (61,565)

Note that this statistic is for household income and not personal income. For example in my household I know that my personal income is above the median while our household income is below the median. This is because my wife stays at home. However with other ENTP's I think it would be more common for them to not get married at all. This would give them a lower household income.

 

[simulatedworld]

This thread is full of Ne fail. Shouldn't we be processing each other's views along with our own objectively?

simulatedworld, I can see where your'e coming from, but I think the amount of money earned has to do more with the mentality of the person than their set of functions; I do, however, think there may be some correlation between the two, though.

Functions are, by definition, a description of one's perspective and value system.

Also, it highly depends on what field of work you're referring to. Wouldn't an F user have a greater advantage in working in sales if they really know how to treat people well? Or an Si user has the capability to do loads of work that may seem tedious with ease?

Sure, but Te and Se tend to perform better in more profitable fields.

Treating people well (or making them feel well-treated) is a big part of sales, but it's not enough on its own. To do well in sales you need to be driven to convince people to buy things they don't really need and best the competition at doing this--hence, salesman is often considered a traditionally ESTP career.

I'm sure there are great salesmen out there of every type, but that really isn't the point. Every time any negative trait is even implied about a type, some butt-hurt idiot from that type shows up screaming "I CAN FIND A FEW INDIVIDUAL COUNTEREXAMPLES SO YOUR POINT IS TOTALLY INVALID!!!!!", completely missing the point that these are descriptions of general trends, not universal restrictions on 100% of cases.

There are rich people, poor people, successful people and unsuccessful people of every psychological type. That much is obvious. The point of this discussion was to determine which functional value systems lend themselves better on average to making money.

It's not really my problem if Cloud takes "Te and Se users tend to have value systems more conducive to making money than other types" personally because he erroneously takes this as an implication that it's totally impossible for other types (namely INTPs, which he kept harping on) to make money. It's quite apparent that that's not the case and that nobody said it was, so he should probably quit crying about it and learn to take generalized statements in a generalized context. This is really not that hard.

 

[Liason]

Nah, you're thinking of your ENTJ cousins. ENTPs are bums.


Highest Average Annual Household Income
(From highest to lowest)

1. ENTJ (84,434)
2. ESTJ (76,238)
3. ESFJ (74,882)
4. INTJ (72,043)
5. ENFJ (71,060)
6. ISTJ (71,020)
7. ESTP (69,323)
8. ISTP (67,349)
9. ENFP (66,210)
10. INTP (64,872)
11. INFJ (64,372)
12. ISFP (64,166)
13. ISFJ (63,870)
14. ESFP (63,281)
15. ENTP (62,960)
16. INFP (61,565)

Highest Education Level
(From highest to lowest)
The scale used to compute these statistics is from 1 to 6, with 1 being lowest (did not graduate high school) and 6 being highest (PhD or equivalent).

1. ENTJ (4.12)
2. INTJ (3.93)
3. ESTJ (3.83)
4. ISTJ (3.78)
5. ESTP (3.73)
6. INFJ (3.72)
7. ENFP (3.69)
8. INTP (3.69)
9. INFP (3.67)
10. ESFP (3.63)
11. ENFJ (3.60)
12. ESFJ (3.62)
13. ISTP (3.59)
14. ISFJ (3.58)
15. ENTP (3.54)
16. ISFP (3.52)

I'm suprised ISTJ's scored higher than INFJ's :0

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Thoughts? Observations of your own?

Good summary with good observations.

ENTXs rule the world. but ENTPs like you say bob up and down a lot more than ENTJs, who tend to have more career stability.

ESTPs are probably next because they make good impressions. But they hit a sensor ceiling. Their strategic skills are weak, but they're the best at communicating technical details.

INTJs can be a mixed bag. Bill Gates and John D Rockefeller on one hand, but also some quiet middle managers on the other. Excellent strategic skills, but many are not natural leaders the way ENTXs are.

STJs keep things running, but they're the overpromoted CEO or COO that can't make a strategic decision, and can't make the same strong impression as an ESTP. I've seen very intelligent ESTJs get stuck in middle management, with no clue how to break out.

 

[yenom]

Nah, you're thinking of your ENTJ cousins. ENTPs are bums.


Highest Average Annual Household Income
(From highest to lowest)

1. ENTJ (84,434)
2. ESTJ (76,238)
3. ESFJ (74,882)
4. INTJ (72,043)
5. ENFJ (71,060)
6. ISTJ (71,020)
7. ESTP (69,323)
8. ISTP (67,349)
9. ENFP (66,210)
10. INTP (64,872)
11. INFJ (64,372)
12. ISFP (64,166)
13. ISFJ (63,870)
14. ESFP (63,281)
15. ENTP (62,960)
16. INFP (61,565)

Highest Education Level
(From highest to lowest)
The scale used to compute these statistics is from 1 to 6, with 1 being lowest (did not graduate high school) and 6 being highest (PhD or equivalent).

1. ENTJ (4.12)
2. INTJ (3.93)
3. ESTJ (3.83)
4. ISTJ (3.78)
5. ESTP (3.73)
6. INFJ (3.72)
7. ENFP (3.69)
8. INTP (3.69)
9. INFP (3.67)
10. ESFP (3.63)
11. ENFJ (3.60)
12. ESFJ (3.62)
13. ISTP (3.59)
14. ISFJ (3.58)
15. ENTP (3.54)
16. ISFP (3.52)

My salary is $1 a day, and my job is washing dishes and picking up trash.
So your statistics is completely wrong.

 

[simulatedworld]

Nah, you're thinking of your ENTJ cousins. ENTPs are bums.

It's true.

 

[yenom]

It's true.

I would pay the person $100 dollars if that person tells simulatedworld to STFU.

And here's the look of the "ENTJ" you speak of.

 

[ajblaise]

The thing is that I have no way to interpret this - how many people were questioned? What region of the world, or country, were these participants taken from? Did all these people live in the same area, with the same cost of living taken into consideration? Etc... These numbers really mean nothing on their own. Where is the raw data?

Yeahhh yeah, think of any reason possible to dismiss it... Assuming it had sound methodology and a large enough sample size, there's probably some truth to it. Anecdotally it kind of checks out with the types I know and their income/education. I'd like to see the raw data though too.

That being said, I - as a person - made more money than the "average" ENTJ household last year.

ENTPs can be slackers, but sometimes they just really get their hustle on if they find their niche... usually not in academia.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Yeahhh yeah, think of any reason to dismiss the study. Assuming it had sound methodology and a large enough sample size, there's probably some truth to it. Anecdotally it kind of checks out with the types I know and their income/education. I'd like to see the raw data though too.



ENTPs can be slackers, but sometimes they just really get their hustle on if they find their niche... usually not in academia.

Well, in terms of the data you don't really get any kind of information on the ranges. For example, I can imagine that the range of income for ENTPs to be quite vast: the bums are bummier and the non-bums on average more successful than some types if you zoom in on a different data range.

Kind of like how women show less variance on the IQ spectrum, but the averages are more or less the same.

EDIT: But I'm one of those people that don't think "teh rulez" and "average" don't really apply to me.

 

[ajblaise]

Well, in terms of the data you don't really get any kind of information on the ranges. For example, I can imagine that the range of income for ENTPs to be quite vast: the bums are bummier and the non-bums on average more successful than some types if you zoom in on a different data range.

Kind of like how women show less variance on the IQ spectrum, but the averages are more or less the same.

EDIT: But I'm one of those people that don't think "teh rulez" and "average" don't really apply to me.

Yeah I could see there being high disparity between ENTP incomes. That's kinda how Ne goes too; it's not always diligent and most of the hidden meanings and multiple possibilities it extrapolates are completely unprofitable and not incredibly useful. But sometimes it hits on gold.

 

[Katsuni]

Note that this statistic is for household income and not personal income. For example in my household I know that my personal income is above the median while our household income is below the median. This is because my wife stays at home. However with other ENTP's I think it would be more common for them to not get married at all. This would give them a lower household income.

Yay for statistics, and how they don't really actually MEAN anything...

Ugh, hate statistics and graphs and such. They can be bent and twisted so many ways...

Whot's the sample size? How many of these 'households' had multiple contributors? Whot were the additional contributor's types? Was it an even 50/50 male/female split of all polled? Are they only using absolute solid evidence or is there a shadowfigure being referenced as well? Etc etc etc ad nausium.

In short, a list of numbers means nothing, especially not this particular list as it's too vague to really mean anything honestly.

That being said, certain types *WILL* be more likely to get paid more on average... some types may not have much desire for material possessions and won't often bother with a career that pays well but has no time to self or lacks creativity. Another may be prone to positions of management and, by association, will tend to get paid more as well for doing so.

There's really weird ones too like the ENTP, who tends to get paid very well, but also tends to bounce between jobs alot and makes several drastic career changes throughout their lives in most cases, so an ENTP on that list, for example, may have been not working that year at all, but the previous year they'd made more than anyone else.

So really, the statistics shown there are meaningless due to a severe lack of data, and that it's contaminated from the start due to having "household" information rather than singular. Seriously, whot is an "intj household"? Every single person in it is an INTJ? One person is? Everyone making money is? The person who took the poll is? How do we know that INTJ isn't just lazy (doubtful but never know) and happens to be married to someone who's rich?

Type does still play a factor, but that information posted there is doubtfully accurate in any way shape or form.

 

[tinkerbell]

Nah, you're thinking of your ENTJ cousins. ENTPs are bums.


Highest Average Annual Household Income
(From highest to lowest)

1. ENTJ (84,434)
2. ESTJ (76,238)
3. ESFJ (74,882)
4. INTJ (72,043)
5. ENFJ (71,060)
6. ISTJ (71,020)
7. ESTP (69,323)
8. ISTP (67,349)
9. ENFP (66,210)
10. INTP (64,872)
11. INFJ (64,372)
12. ISFP (64,166)
13. ISFJ (63,870)
14. ESFP (63,281)
15. ENTP (62,960)
16. INFP (61,565)

Highest Education Level
(From highest to lowest)
The scale used to compute these statistics is from 1 to 6, with 1 being lowest (did not graduate high school) and 6 being highest (PhD or equivalent).

1. ENTJ (4.12)
2. INTJ (3.93)
3. ESTJ (3.83)
4. ISTJ (3.78)
5. ESTP (3.73)
6. INFJ (3.72)
7. ENFP (3.69)
8. INTP (3.69)
9. INFP (3.67)
10. ESFP (3.63)
11. ENFJ (3.60)
12. ESFJ (3.62)
13. ISTP (3.59)
14. ISFJ (3.58)
15. ENTP (3.54)
16. ISFP (3.52)

Sorry not buying (what is the sample representing, certain MBTI will have couples and you'd need both pairing to represent),

NT's typically seem to do financially disproprtionately well, but SJ's merely by beign the biggest population ought to be getting higher scores.... ie SJ's are 55% of the population, therefore ought to be 55% of board possitions.

There are many fairly poor surveys been posted as evidence of MBTI thinking but they fall over really easily when you realise what they actually do say

Houshold income can't represent an MBTI type (its an individual).

Education levels don't reall equate to much, many ENTPs self educate.

This will be skewed to this site
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/mbti-tm-other-personality-matrices/25841-income-category.html

 

[FigerPuppet]

ie SJ's are 55% of the population, therefore ought to be 55% of board possitions.