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[NT] NT's and earning money

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
1,755
Bill Gates' wealth is the living proof that even introverts and nerds can succeed in the business world.

Introverts and socially-inept smart people should look up to Bill Gates as a model, whether than go on self-pity mode and say that "my chances are slim because so many people are better than me."

As to whether Bill Gates is an ENTJ, we will know the truth in:

(1) When he takes the MBTI test
(2) When he publish a biography talking about his life
(3) When he died and scientists start dissecting his brain
 

JustHer

Pumpernickel
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
1,954
MBTI Type
ENTJ
As to whether he is an ENTJ or not, I haven't notice one ENTJ on this forum that thinks like Bill gates.

That is interesting. Please tell me how the ENTJs on this forum think.

*awaits patiently*
 

nozflubber

DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,078
MBTI Type
Hype
The types that make the most money are the ones that care the most about making money. The other types don't necessarily lack the ability to make money, but they don't have the same level of desire.



ENTP probably has the highest variance when it comes to making money. There are probably a lot of ENTP millionaires out there. But for every one of them there are a many more that either live in their parent's basement or in a van down by the river.

This.

My only problem with this is that INTPs/ENTPs are like the ideal type for Engineers and Physicists. I would assume that would skew the data more towards "higher income" brackets. A bachelor's in physics alone will get you 55k/year on average right out of college....

Perhaps ENTP/INTPs don't make it that far through college though due to the BS/structure involved, and most physicists are NTJs/STJs ? That doesn't fit with my observations, as usually my physics classes are NTP havens...

Seriously, out of the entire population, what proportion of NTPs make it that far, do you think? I tend to think most NTPs will get shoveled towards things like physics over time... but a lot become druggie burnouts, etc too, i imagine.
 

INTPness

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Jan 22, 2009
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...even introverts and nerds can succeed in the business world.

I don't think anyone is saying that introverts can't be successful. They certainly can and I think the individuals you are arguing with have acknowledged that. Simply put, there are a LOT of INTP's that scrape by financially. There are also a select few that actually act on their ideas and turn them into reality - and when that happens, there is the potential to make a large amount of money. A lot of INTP's I know don't act on anything at all. And I include myself in this for certain periods of my life. I'm not afraid to say that. Are you an INTP that can't relate to this at all or do you kind of get what I'm saying?

On the flip side, there are an awful lot of Te users out there who are kicking butt in the business world. I can think of countless examples in my own life. They are all over the place. There's a kid near me, younger than I, who owns his own financial advising business. The kid is there every single morning at the crack of dawn, has his cup of coffee and reads his Wall Street Journal before even opening up the doors. I am in no way saying that this is the only way to make money. But, it's that kind of approach, that kind of drive, motivation, and consistency (basically, he gives a crap) that has a tendency to work well in our society. "The early bird gets the worm." "Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise." To many P types (not all of them, but many - and this is in my real-world experience - not just talking out of my butt here) - many P's find these sayings to be inspirational and cute, but they don't live it. Many J types (again, not all, but many) LIVE it. They're opening the doors while other types are still in bed sleeping. That goes a long way. It's logical and it's common sense that things like consistency, being there day in and day out, and seeing things through to completion have a general correlation with monetary success (and other kinds of success as well).

As an INTP, I admit that I've struggled with this for years. I'm a P. I want to slack. I want to sleep. I want to play. I want to start new projects before old ones are finished. I think that helps my creativity and I have some really good ideas, but I still have to execute.

Nobody is saying that INTP's can't do well in business. I, for one, agree with you that INTP's absolutely can do well. But, I and several INTP's I've known have struggled with actually doing it. Not talking about it. Not saying that we could be good at business. But, actually waking up tomorrow morning and doing it.

And just because Bill Gates did it, doesn't mean anything for me tomorrow when I wake up. Maybe it inspires me in some small way. But, I still have to make something happen. Te very naturally wants to do exactly that.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Why is cloud an idiot? Because he has an opinion that you don't understand/agree with?

Yes, exactly. Anyone who doesn't agree with my opinions on everything is a moron. You nailed it!

Let's count the reasons I might term him an idiot:

1) Posting on a forum dedicated to an elaborate system of stereotypes and complaining that people are stereotyping.

2) Asking for deductive proof for inductive arguments and using the lack thereof as "evidence" that the whole system of typological induction is useless. (I dunno about you, but I've heard "OMG WHERE'S UR SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF THESE TYPE CATEGORIES????" enough times to want to stab someone by now.)

3) Asking questions, ignoring the answers and then asking the same questions again.

4) Intentionally misreading people's meaning for the express purpose of complaining about "generalizations"...while posting on a forum dedicated to generalizing people.
 

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
1,755
Yes, exactly. Anyone who doesn't agree with my opinions on everything is a moron. You nailed it!

Let's count the reasons I might term him an idiot:

1) Posting on a forum dedicated to an elaborate system of stereotypes and complaining that people are stereotyping.

2) Asking for deductive proof for inductive arguments and using the lack thereof as "evidence" that the whole system of typological induction is useless. (I dunno about you, but I've heard "OMG WHERE'S UR SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF THESE TYPE CATEGORIES????" enough times to want to stab someone by now.)

3) Asking questions, ignoring the answers and then asking the same questions again.

4) Intentionally misreading people's meaning for the express purpose of complaining about "generalizations"...while posting on a forum dedicated to generalizing people.

You know, I'm not going to waste time defending myself. You can believe whatever you want. To me, typology is a system to understand people, not shoving people into boxes and making generalizations. But if thats what you want to do, I am not going to fight against it.

And I believe entjs already had their fair share of glory, half of which they have taken from their opposite type and other NT types (including INTP , which I believe is what Bill Gates should fall under).
 

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
1,755
If you want to know the truth, you should go find out and make an investigation. Gather evidence that supports what you think, rather than making empty generalizations and believe what other people are saying. Evidence can come from many sources, such as from books you read, real life experiences and observations, and interviews with famous people or what they said in public, or learning about that person's life.

Claims and generalizations without valid support is BS.
 

tinkerbell

New member
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
3,487
MBTI Type
ENTP
Like most ENTP's I have no difficulty making money, and never had, I've been working since I was about 11 (partime in family businesses until I was 17 or so).

My income goes up and down depending on if I'm between jobs or not. When I get fed up, I tend to resign without something to go too.... a bad habit I need to get over.

I make good money these days, but then I do feel like I have worked for it, and deprived myself of other things in order to excel. I tend to feel a little unbalanced toward work at times... get too invovled/sulked in.

I need to work at balancing my profesional life with my recreational life.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
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sx/so
If you want to know the truth, you should go find out and make an investigation. Gather evidence that supports what you think, rather than making empty generalizations and believe what other people are saying. Evidence can come from many sources, such as from books you read, real life experiences and observations, and interviews with famous people or what they said in public, or learning about that person's life.

Claims and generalizations without valid support is BS.

In that case, my personal observations of real people are my evidence. It's obvious if you think about the things Te and Se users tend to do well, and in my experience the wealthiest people I've met tend to be xxTJ or xSTP.

For some reason you assumed that this means nobody else can make money, but I didn't say that. I said that the skills associated with strong Te and strong Se tend to be more profitable in a capitalist economy than do other functions--this is not a bullshit generalization; it follows quite apparently from just thinking a little bit about what skills the corporate profit system tends to reward.

Obviously Fi is not a particularly profitable skill. That doesn't mean it's somehow lesser than Te, just that the structure of the global economy rewards Te's skills with more money more often. This doesn't mean there are rich or successful Fi users, just that Te and Se on average tend to generate more material wealth.

It's kind of ridiculous that I had to bother explaining that.

This is not based on believing what other people say; it's based on listening to the rhetoric rich people use and the philosophies they promote and realizing that Te and Se align more closely with these philosophies than most of the other functions. You seem so personally offended by the suggestion that your type isn't one of the richest that you're completely shut off from the idea that hey, maybe some types really do tend to make more money than others, and that this isn't that hard to discern from thinking about the functions and the value systems they represent and looking at how that relates to the way the global economy is structured.

Of course there are rich and successful INTPs, but that doesn't negate the fact that NTJs and STPs tend to have philosophies that hold making money and the things important to making money in higher regard. It doesn't mean they're smarter; it's just a trend. Get over it.
 

fill

"Everything in its place"
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
507
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
753
This thread is full of Ne fail. Shouldn't we be processing each other's views along with our own objectively?

simulatedworld, I can see where your'e coming from, but I think the amount of money earned has to do more with the mentality of the person than their set of functions; I do, however, think there may be some correlation between the two, though.

Also, it highly depends on what field of work you're referring to. Wouldn't an F user have a greater advantage in working in sales if they really know how to treat people well? Or an Si user has the capability to do loads of work that may seem tedious with ease?
 

INTPness

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
2,157
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INTP
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5w4
In that case, my personal observations of real people are my evidence. It's obvious if you think about the things Te and Se users tend to do well, and in my experience the wealthiest people I've met tend to be xxTJ or xSTP.

For some reason you assumed that this means nobody else can make money, but I didn't say that. I said that the skills associated with strong Te and strong Se tend to be more profitable in a capitalist economy than do other functions--this is not a bullshit generalization; it follows quite apparently from just thinking a little bit about what skills the corporate profit system tends to reward.

Obviously Fi is not a particularly profitable skill. That doesn't mean it's somehow lesser than Te, just that the structure of the global economy rewards Te's skills with more money more often. This doesn't mean there are rich or successful Fi users, just that Te and Se on average tend to generate more material wealth.

It's kind of ridiculous that I had to bother explaining that.

This is not based on believing what other people say; it's based on listening to the rhetoric rich people use and the philosophies they promote and realizing that Te and Se align more closely with these philosophies than most of the other functions. You seem so personally offended by the suggestion that your type isn't one of the richest that you're completely shut off from the idea that hey, maybe some types really do tend to make more money than others, and that this isn't that hard to discern from thinking about the functions and the value systems they represent and looking at how that relates to the way the global economy is structured.

Of course there are rich and successful INTPs, but that doesn't negate the fact that NTJs and STPs tend to have philosophies that hold making money and the things important to making money in higher regard. It doesn't mean they're smarter; it's just a trend. Get over it.

Sounds pretty straight-forward and reasonable to me. I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about this.
 

INTPness

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simulatedworld, I can see where your'e coming from, but I think the amount of money earned has to do more with the mentality of the person than their set of functions; I do, however, think there may be some correlation between the two, though.

That's why he said that certain types tend to make more money - because it's not a given and because the tendencies can't account for individual motivation.
 

INTPness

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I am going to be a bajillionaire.

Just wait and see.

Nope. Only ISFJ's have the right set of functions to become bajillionaires. How do I know?

1. The books I read told me so.
2. An ISTJ colleague showed me some cold, hard data that says that there has never been an ENTP bajillionaire, therefore, there probably never will be one.
3. An INFJ colleague said that her intuition tells her that no ENTP will ever be a bajillionaire.

Sorry.
 

JustHer

Pumpernickel
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
1,954
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Nope. Only ISFJ's have the right set of functions to become bajillionaires. How do I know?

1. The books I read told me so.
2. An ISTJ colleague showed me some cold, hard data that says that there has never been an ENTP bajillionaire, therefore, there probably never will be one.
3. An INFJ colleague said that her intuition tells her that no ENTP will ever be a bajillionaire.

Sorry.

Those are highly convincing arguments. However, I am not an ENTP.. ewww.
 

INTPness

New member
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Jan 22, 2009
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Those are highly convincing arguments. However, I am not an ENTP.. ewww.

Oh. Well, in that case I will have to consult my colleagues all over again. You might have a chance afterall. But probably not - because, like I said, only ISFJ's can become bajillionaires.

P.S. Why would ENTP be under your name. if. you. aren't. E. N. T. P. ? Just like to throw people off?
 

JustHer

Pumpernickel
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
1,954
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Oh. Well, in that case I will have to consult my colleagues all over again. You might have a chance afterall. But probably not - because, like I said, only ISFJ's can become bajillionaires.

Why ISFJs?!?! I am mindboggled.

P.S. Why would ENTP be under your name. if. you. aren't. E. N. T. P. ? Just like to throw people off?

Why? Oh who knows.... the possibilities are endless! (amidoingitrite??)
 
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