[MBTI General] INTPs and ISTJs

[Mipp]

I checked the archive and did not find a thread on this topic. If it has been discussed before, here on in the ST forums, please let me know.

I had to spend the last year working and living in close quarters with an ISTJ. We really and truly despised each other. We both found the other rude and abrasive, and when we were forced to interact we could find nothing to discuss. She is hyper-organized, responsible, and honestly I found her to be a good little sheep. If she ever had an original thought in her life I think I would fall over dead from shock. She is very status-conscious which is something I just don't understand, and very into whatever the media tells her she should be into.

One day, she was talking about her plans for the future. Knowing that she had been a former ballerina and that she talked a great deal about dancing, I asked her if she'd ever thought about teaching ballet. After all, it's honest work and something she obviously enjoyed.

She looked disgusted and said, "Are you kidding me? That is NOT how my life is going to end up."

My reply was, "Well, I certainly hope your ballet teachers who spent the last 15 years teaching you their craft don't know you think so little of their profession."

She was disgusted that I would suggest she become something so lowly as a ballet teacher. I was disgusted that she would think it was beneath her. Our priorities and thoughts were on such different levels that it was nearly impossible for us to communicate with each other without butting heads. Almost the only good thing I can say about her is that she was very responsible and that she would often volunteer to do things no one else wanted to do. I respected her for that. But on a personal level we just did not like each other.

Is it common for INTPs and ISTJs to not get along? Or were we an unfortunate pair of an INTP and an ISTJ who just had no basis for friendship?

 

[Shimmy]

You were an unfortunate pair. In my childhood I was an INTP and I learned a great deal from my dad who's an ISTJ. I don't often agree with him, but that's no basis for not liking him, I've got a great dad.

EDIT

Even more so, you weren't an unfortunate pair, it's not easy for a stereotypical INTP and stereotypical ISTJ to get along, but it's possible, you were a pair of typically stubborn people with different views.

 

[BlueGray]

I get along very well with many ISTJs.

 

[Tallulah]

I get along just fine with a lot of ISTJs. I sometimes run into issues with other SJ types, though.

My sister is a wonderful and very funny ISTJ, and we've always gotten along really well.

 

[bluebell]

I know some very laidback ISTJ women IRL and I get on fine with them. We're not close or anything and don't connect particularly deeply, but I enjoy their company. There's an ISTJ woman at my work who I'd be happy to work with more. We have mutual trust and respect and complementary skills. We don't officially work together but we ask each other for advice fairly often. She's very calm, laidback and pragmatic and she's good at following processes. I go to her when I need advice on how to follow a particular process that I know she's done recently or to get some unemotional and impartial advice on how to handle particular people. She comes to me for advice when she needs a process to follow but none exists, so I make up steps for her to follow which she then dutifully writes down.

 

[great_bay]

ISTJ's came across as me as perfect behavior. They're super-reserve and strict. They're really responsible and some of them can probably lead a classroom as teenagers. However, I admit I have a difficult time with ISTJ's even more than ESFJ's who are my conflict relation. With ESFJ's, we have all the same functions meaning we can come to the same conclusion on things. There's mutual understand in each other.

I see ISTJ's as relations of opposing. Introverted sensing, Extroverted thinking, and Introverted feeling. That means a lot of their interactions with me come across as them opposing me. Introverted sensing does what has always been done. They don't care about my Ne all that much about the grey areas. I find that incredibly difficult. If I were to describe in a different way, I'd be like if ISTJ's were referrers with penalty cards. I do something bad and I get busted. However, I try to talk my way out with Ti and Ne. ISTJ's deny my functions and penalty me anyways.

According to socionics, this is benefit relation. ISTJ's are technically in a high ranking than me anyways. Boss to employee. Father and son. In benefit relations, it's hard for the low ranking status to work under the high ranking status. They reject my Ne and there is obviously no grey areas. I find them really difficult.

 

[great_bay]

I wanted to add that I've meet different ISTJ's. I knew an ISTJ's that was perfect in their behavior. They probably could had lead a classroom at 15 years old. I knew one that was a really lazy coach potato that never amounted to anything. I felt comfortable with the second ISTJ.

 

[INTP]

I had a good ISTJ friend years ago, but we kinda drifted apart. But he wasnt the type of ISTJ that has 10 feet pole up in his ass, quite different of the stereotypical ISTJ in many other ways as well. I think him smoking weed and drinking quite much since he was like 13 made a quite big change in him and turned him into more laid back type of person, and he was pretty much the opposite of some perfect behavior ISTJ who could lead a classroom. Before we met he would for example get drunk and high in the middle of the week(when he was like 14-15 and supposed to be at school) and go look for fights, and started them if he couldnt find one otherwise. But he kinda grew out of it before he was 16, thanks to weed and other ways to channel his inner rage or what ever he had. I dont think we would had become so close if we didnt have mutual interest on things, and a big part of us drifting apart was that i didnt keep my interest so much, while he did.

 

[Frosty]

Dont know what I am but I know that generally ISTJs end up wanting to strangle me.

Believe my brother is an ISTJ and he is always getting all pissy if I dont follow some rule. If I walk through an exit, dont cover my mouth when I cough, leave junk out, or talk on the phone too loud, he will come at me.


He really has mellowed out these last few years though. Now while he still does have those little spaz out moments they are much less frequent. Guess it just comes with maturity. They are still there, but I suppose that just comes with having a strong Te.

 

[Xander]

Me vs ISTJ is often pistols at dawn.

This whole country is ISTJ obsessed. So many general knowledge quizzes od useless information. Plus the whole needing to fill out seventeen bits of paper to get a pen is maddening.

Personally, bar a couple of individuals, I've argued with every ISTJ I've met. At some point their condescension and blind adherence to things they do not grasp gets my goat and I level at them. The June who stuck around is almost oblivious to this and we continue to have heated and in depth discussions though he is the man of the quote at one point "I don't want to discuss things with you anymore as you are capable of persuading me and I do not wish to be persuaded".

As for the rest, leave them in accounting for sanity if nothing else.

 

[great_bay]

ISTJ's are technically in a high status than us. Bring ISFP's and ENTP's to beat ISTJ's.

 

[Obsidius]

Every ISTJ I've seen or met on and off the forum have been very disagreeable. One of my good friends is and ISTJ, and even there, I experience infuriating thinking differences, namely that he focuses upon what he's experienced instead of possibility or probability, almost as though he has no ability to think theoretically or in the abstract, which to me is frustrating to say the least. I don't know if this is something that ISTJ's in general are afflicted with, but if so, then I can't imagine gelling to well with them, because I value artistic and theoretical thinking, not the respect for societal structure, cultural norms and rules that the ISTJ is apparently interchangeable with, none of which are respectable to me.

- - - Updated - - -

Every ISTJ I've seen or met on and off the forum have been very disagreeable. One of my good friends is and ISTJ, and even there, I experience infuriating thinking differences, namely that he focuses upon what he's experienced instead of possibility or probability, almost as though he has no ability to think theoretically or in the abstract, which to me is frustrating to say the least. I don't know if this is something that ISTJ's in general are afflicted with, but if so, then I can't imagine gelling to well with them, because I value artistic and theoretical thinking, not the respect for societal structure, cultural norms and rules that the ISTJ is apparently interchangeable with, none of which are respectable to me (the respect for those things, that is).

 

[Bknight]

It really depends on the strength of the Ne and Si traits. It's pretty common for Intuitives and Sensors to not get along; N and S are probably the two things that most impact a person's personality.

 

[Doktorin Zylinder]

I've had a relationship two ISTJs and another for a sister-in-law. In general, they seems a little uptight, but once we get comfortable with one another, it seems to go well enough unless you tell them something they don't want to hear.

 

[Bknight]

I've had a relationship two ISTJs and another for a sister-in-law. In general, they seems a little uptight, but once we get comfortable with one another, it seems to go well enough unless you tell them something they don't want to hear.

I have a similar situation with my ISTJ sister. She has a very "na-na-na-can't-hear-you" style of arguing. Kind of annoying, really.

 

[great_bay]

I don't think ISTJ and INTP are good pairings. The only reason why is because Ne is the fourth function of ISTJ's. They have trouble using the function. Ne is one of INTP's constantly used function. It's a recipe for disaster if they were in a romantic pairing together.

Here's an entire article about people who have trouble using their inferior function when it manifests negatively.
Socionics - the16types.info - MBTI: Form of the Inferior Function

As you can clearly see, Ne if the loathe and inferior function. This doesn't apply to INTP and ISTJ but other pairings when paired up with someone who has their strongest function as their weakest point. ESTJ and INTP is much better do to the fact the functions are complementary.

ESTJ- Te-Si-Ne-Fi
INTP- Ti-Ne-Si-Fe

 

[hecait]

As far as I can tell, my stepfather is an ISTJ. He's a friendless, anal retentive, irritable man who spends his leisure time cleaning the house and doing yard work. Very sensitive ego, and doesn't like his authority questioned.

Needless to say, we've never gotten along.

 

[baccheion]

Not generally a good pairing. The ones I've been around would constantly try to sabotage me, take credit for what I do, order me around, get in my way, and prevent any show of intelligence. They were also narrow-minded and obsessed with trying to make it seem as though everyone was stupid, and as though they were the only ones that knew what they were doing. Everything had to be spelled out for them, and they would constantly annoy about irrelevant things.

 

[cameo]

Hmm.

After reading through this thread, I must say that I think people should beware of pigeonholing based on bad experiences with a couple of individuals. As with anything, there is a wide gamut of different individuals in any one type. On the one hand, I can see why some people have bad experiences with some ISTJs, but I don't think that should reflect on the entire population of ISTJs. There are probably plenty of INTPs who are rude, condescending, belligerent, etc. or are otherwise insufferable people but that doesn't mean that any of the INTPs here necessarily have those qualities.

Furthermore, it seems reasonable there are types that get along more and less well and it may be that INTPs and ISTJs are a pairing that aren't quite as 'naturally' compatible. I think that's fair (although I haven't extensively researched INTPs or compared side-by-side all the possible type combinations). But I just want to reiterate the importance of not attributing bad qualities of one shitty person to an entire group. I also think how well you get along with someone has much more to do with that person as an individual than with each person's personality type--individual differences among the same type are still significant. I'm a pretty reasonable, intelligent person; I'm not a person who is inclined to blindly follow rules, [I think] I have pretty original thoughts, and I'm quite capable of seeing other peoples' points of view.

Anyway, I'm sure I'm not saying anything here that you all don't already know, but since there are few ISTJs here to stand up for our type, I figured I may as well try.

 

[great_bay]

A lot of these comments are interchangeable. You can change the rants about ISTJ with any other Myers-Brigg type such as INTP or ESFJ and nothing would had changed. What this means is that the rant about ISTJ don't have a particular meaning.

Anyways, I'm curious about ISTJ and INTP pairing strictly looking at the cognitive functions. [MENTION=25111]cameo[/MENTION] Do you think ISTJ and INTP pairing are good? Do you think it's a good idea for people to pair up with others when their weakness is their strongest point? ISTJ have weak Ne and which is INTP's most frequent function.