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[ENTP] ENTP's-connecting with people through Ne

INTPness

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I was reading another thread in this forum which mentioned the possibility that ENTP's might underestimate the importance of Ti, while INTP's might tend to underestimate the importance of Ne.

I don't think that I underestimate the value of my Ne (I know it's my way of connecting with people and the outside world, and it's also good to get out of my own head). But, one of my problems seems to be actually being able to CONNECT with people when I do use my Ne. I have found that when I'm talking to another primary or secondary Ne user, we usually connect extremely well - but that only includes 4 of the 16 types (and not a large percentage of the overall population). With the other 12 types, I don't connect very well. I want to connect with people more often, but I find that instead of my Ne "connecting", it feels more like the other person is "missing" what I'm saying - or I'm "missing" my target. I can almost use the analogy of swinging a baseball bat. When I use Ne with other Ne users, I connect with the baseball and the baseball goes far. When I use my Ne with others, it's like I just can't quite seem to hit the ball. I've learned to not care as much. If I feel that I "missed" in a given situation, then I just move on and not let it bother me too much (there are times, when I choose to actually reflect on it, that it seems a bit sad, pathetic, and depressing) - basically, I've learned to live with it.

But, I think that I have gotten to a point where I more or less "expect" to miss - I might think, "I'd like to join in and conversate with that group" (whether it be friends/acquaintances/or a business situation), but then I'll just think, "95% chance it will be awkward or they won't get me, so I'm just going to go on my way".

So, the question is: how do you use your Ne to connect with "the masses"? In particular, the 8 "S" types? When you know that you don't have much in common with a group or an individual, but it's still important (or otherwise desirable) to connect with them, how do you do it? Tips? Pointers? What if you start to use Ne and you get the vibe that they aren't getting you or they think you're eccentric? Do you continue to use your Ne or do you try to mix in some other function(s) to meet them half way?
 

Gamine

in-game
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3w2
This is sort of how I look at it...

My Ne gets all fired up, hot and bothered when I find another Ne type. Our minds click It might take a long time for anything emotional to build, or none at all. Depends on the person. Our brains get along great though!

My Fe has taken a while to develop, but it's a smooth suave machine. This is what I use when I'm being an extraverted personal-person (focussing on human type stuff) either out of interest in that person, genuine appreciation of them, or in some ploy to advocate an idea in communication.

My Ti is the face I make when I'm sorting everything out in my head, and people walk up and tell me they are concerned about me, because I seem so serious.

I usually know how to approach someone, and if I am not certain I will drop things subtley into conversation to see if they catch on. One of the best things about interactions with people: They are usually more concerned about how they are being perceived, so if you can get them talking about themselves, what they find interesting, you can learn a lot and then make your move if you are an observe-act kind of person.

Good luck!! People are strange haha.
 

tinkerbell

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It's still hard for us.

+1

Actually I use to work for an Ad agency whos staff just use to walk up to new people and introduce themselves and what they were working on.

It really challenged anything introverted, just to march up and break the ice... but it worked it really did.

Never been much good in a crowd of people I didn't know too well, without becomign annoyingly extrovert
 

Shimmy

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It's kind of a combination of Ne, learning that social situations are not scary and hardly ever awkward and figuring out it doesn't matter at all if they are.

If I see something interesting to me I nowadays just comment on it. If, for instance, I see a person with a Sziget shirt on, I will most certainly compliment that person on it and tell him or her that I've been to Sziget as well.

No one ever takes offence if you just make small talk.
 

INTPness

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It's kind of a combination of Ne, learning that social situations are not scary and hardly ever awkward and figuring out it doesn't matter at all if they are.

That's good advice. Maybe my perception that many of my social situations are fairly awkward is flawed. Or even if it isn't flawed, and they really are awkward, it still doesn't matter.

To the others who responded, I have read in other threads that you also find it difficult, but you seem to do a better job of trudging through it. Like one ENTP that I know says: I don't enjoy it, but I have to do it. It's something that is necessary and so I just do it.

It's so easy for the INTP to just leave, avoid, or stay indoors - because that just means that we are leaving an awkward secondary-function situation in favor of going back to using our primary function. It's almost a no-brainer. It's not always the best decision for us in the long-term, but in that very moment, it's so easy to say, "This isn't working. Let me get out of here so I can go be alone and engage Ti." And then when we get out of the awkward situation it's a feeling of "home sweet home" - we're comfortable again and back using our primary function.

ENTP's, however, have to be around others in order to use Ne, so you guys are more likely to "stay" in these somewhat awkward situations.

How do you plow through these situations, even when they are difficult/awkward/uncomfortable?
 

Duke

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How do you plow through these situations, even when they are difficult/awkward/uncomfortable?

That's where Fe becomes really useful. If I realize things are going awry I just turn on the Fe and find some other direction to run on that I think will interest the other person. I mean sometimes I'll just gracefully bow out, but it doesn't really bother me. Couldn't connect with that person, well why not try that cute girl in the corner?
 

CJ99

Is Willard in Footloose!!
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Jan 5, 2009
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Ne alone doesn't really help connect with people. But Ne-Fe does. Its why most of us ENTPs are annoying bastard when we are young - I should know I still am!
Ne sort of figures out the persons motivations, the kind of person they are ect then uses Fe to react by being nice or being tactful ect. Its why younger ENTPs always fuck up because we know exactly what the persons wants and why its just when we try react to that we always give the wrong reaction!

Really Ne alone isn't much of a people function!
 

Tamske

Writing...
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Oct 22, 2009
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ENTP
Ne's the way I would prefer to connect to people: sharing ideas, talking about theories, invent nonsense stories and rhymes...
Fe's the way that's expected in 'socializing'
When interacting the Ne way, I feel recharged. When interacting the Fe way, I feel drained.

There's this teacher in my school... we never "connected" in the usual way, asking about name, health, hobbies, children, students... Suddenly he asked me some questions about the vacuum. He has even never asked me "how are you doing" and I feel more connected to him than to my more talkative colleagues :D
We know and appreciate each other. We don't have to say it.
 

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
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Aug 3, 2008
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say what you think (overcome your fear of talking to people)
be curious about people
write down their responses
talk to more people
don't be afraid of rejection

(P.S it has nothing to do with functions)
it gets better and better as you gain experience talking to more people
 

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
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you should also write down thoughts in your head that you are afraid to speak out and discuss with other people. Then find an opportunity to speak out these thoughts rather than keep supressing them.
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
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you should also write down thoughts in your head that you are afraid to speak out and discuss with other people. Then find an opportunity to speak out these thoughts rather than keep supressing them.
In a fushia notebook. Sorry chap. i dont make the rules.
 

yenom

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That's it, I give up. Too difficult.

Language is used as a tool for communication. If you don't plan to use it, what is the point of learning it and storing it in your brain.

You have to overcome your fear of talking.
 

jenocyde

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ENTP's, however, have to be around others in order to use Ne, so you guys are more likely to "stay" in these somewhat awkward situations.

I disagree with the statement that I need to be around others to use Ne. Absolutely not. I can hermit myself away for months and become more mentally productive and creative than ever. We need external stimuli - not necessarily people.

I was reading another thread in this forum which mentioned the possibility that ENTP's might underestimate the importance of Ti, while INTP's might tend to underestimate the importance of Ne.

I don't think that I underestimate the value of my Ne (I know it's my way of connecting with people and the outside world, and it's also good to get out of my own head).

I also find that many INTPs, especially, don't see any value beyond their Ti. Being able to think about something in depth is great but if it only remains an internal thought, it is a rather pointless existence. There is beauty and usefulness in every function. Becoming a master of only one really says that you are dense to all the others, which isn't exactly rational, logical or anything to be remotely proud of. I'm glad your view of the world isn't so limited.

So, the question is: how do you use your Ne to connect with "the masses"? In particular, the 8 "S" types? When you know that you don't have much in common with a group or an individual, but it's still important (or otherwise desirable) to connect with them, how do you do it? Tips? Pointers? What if you start to use Ne and you get the vibe that they aren't getting you or they think you're eccentric? Do you continue to use your Ne or do you try to mix in some other function(s) to meet them half way?


I agree with the others who said that we call on our Fe. It doesn't come naturally until we are a bit older, though.

I see many INTPs, like I said before, only valuing their own Dom function - basically, only valuing themselves. Because Ti is introverted and Ne is an intangible perceiving process, NTPs can be extremely introverted and wrapped up in their own heads. The only solution, if you really want to connect with others, is to start seeing the value they bring to the table.

Many times I sit through my INTP friend's long monologues about whatever miniscule nuance he is currently obsessed with. But when I finally get to say a word in edgewise about a subject I'm interested in that he deems boring, he visibly and noticeably checks out. My thoughts aren't as important as his in those moments. He can't see what value I am bringing to him in that moment. The thing is, it's not supposed to always be about him.

Find out what other people are interested in and actually listen to them, you might learn something - not only about the subject, but about the person and perhaps even about yourself.

Try to find your Fe. Try to figure out how to listen and ask appropriate follow up questions that show the speaker that you are listening and learning and that encourage a flow in the conversation. Learn to give feedback when others are talking. If something simply does not interest you, exercise your beautiful Ne and figure out where this subject connects with a larger theme, and steer the conversation that way. If someone is going on and on about a boring football game, find a way to make the concept of football relatable to a larger theme of, let's say, strategy. Have a conversation, not a monologue. If they don't seem to "get" you, use your Ne to foster a connection between what you are saying and what things they have said to make it more understandable to them. Keep rephrasing it until you've been understood.

In other words, use your Fe to actually give a shit about what someone else is talking about and who they are. Use Ne to relate that back to your own life and experiences. And there is your connection. Human beings aren't all that different from each other, even though it seems like we are worlds apart on the surface.

And be aware of your body language. It often says more than your words do.
 

Qre:us

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I disagree with the statement that I need to be around others to use Ne. Absolutely not. I can hermit myself away for months and become more mentally productive and creative than ever. We need external stimuli - not necessarily people.

Yes. Ne just needs external stimuli, the world beyond myself is filled with way more things than just people.


I also find that many INTPs, especially, don't see any value beyond their Ti. Being able to think about something in depth is great but if it only remains an internal thought, it is a rather pointless existence. There is beauty and usefulness in every function. Becoming a master of only one really says that you are dense to all the others, which isn't exactly rational, logical or anything to be remotely proud of. I'm glad your view of the world isn't so limited.

This is an amazing reminder for this site, and sites that focus on typology, specified especially by a type. The irrational arrogance of "being a type" as "objectively" better than others, because of some "priviledged" function(s) preference.

And, for every good, there's a flip side, so being so deep into one (or a few) function(s) which limits the use of the other functions, makes the person stuck in a rut, which I would think would be a type of dis-ability in navigating the real world.



I agree with the others who said that we call on our Fe. It doesn't come naturally until we are a bit older, though.

Yup, again. Fe allows me patience to connect with others, it makes the conversation shift from me to us. Afterall, that is the point of conversing.

It also allows me to be very acutely aware of when someone is seemingly engaging me, but, I can feel that they've, as you use the word, 'checked out', or are bored. And, my Fe then cannot push them to listen to my side, because it feels utterly shafted. And, it's probably on me, but, even if I can try to engage the Ne to re-try the convo to make it more interesting, the slight I felt at feeling the other's boredom, and them not voicing it, but pretending to care/listen...shuts it down completely. The progress of the convo is halted.

And be aware of your body language. It often says more than your words do.

I pick up on body language too.

Find out what other people are interested in and actually listen to them, you might learn something - not only about the subject, but about the person and perhaps even about yourself.

Try to find your Fe. Try to figure out how to listen and ask appropriate follow up questions that show the speaker that you are listening and learning and that encourage a flow in the conversation. Learn to give feedback when others are talking. If something simply does not interest you, exercise your beautiful Ne and figure out where this subject connects with a larger theme, and steer the conversation that way. If someone is going on and on about a boring football game, find a way to make the concept of football relatable to a larger theme of, let's say, strategy. Have a conversation, not a monologue. If they don't seem to "get" you, use your Ne to foster a connection between what you are saying and what things they have said to make it more understandable to them. Keep rephrasing it until you've been understood.

In other words, use your Fe to actually give a shit about what someone else is talking about and who they are. Use Ne to relate that back to your own life and experiences. And there is your connection. Human beings aren't all that different from each other, even though it seems like we are worlds apart on the surface.

Excellent advice, well put.

I connect to people through a combination of primarily Ne+Ti+Fe.

Ne finds the interest, Ti relays the interest (why it makes sense), and Fe tries to sell it in an engaging and individually-tailored package.
 
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Connections to S-people? Yes, there are problems. The most strange people are SFs. They are hard to understand, while I can handle the STs. It seems, that I have the natural strategy to find a common ground with them because of their objective view of life. Talking about objective facts (not theoretical), and argue with them can build a connection of respect and affection.

The SFs are problematic, because the objective discussion don't work well with them.

Most NJs are good to handle, but some differ from me. They seem to have a narrow view of life for me, so it can be hard to argue with them.

_________________________

All in all my natural strategy is argueing and debating facts. Some types can work with that, some can not. Try this to connect with Ts.

Fe is working analytical, so it's a bit to slow to react correctly (in the moment). So it's correct: ENTPs are annoying in their early years, but becoming better and better, when they grow older.

You INTPs have harder to work to develop Fe, but you can force yourself better to go through "daily work" (when Si developped), and so you can go for the analytical strategy to have much experiences with people: Doing permanent smalltalk.

A buddy called it "Empathizing by systemizing", it consists of the analysis and permanent doing of smalltalk (and other social things). Good books about smalltalk may help you. If we ENTP have enough Si to go through them, they help us, but for me it seems, that I preferable invent all the strategys in interactions for myself ;)
 

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
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It also allows me to be very acutely aware of when someone is seemingly engaging me, but, I can feel that they've, as you use the word, 'checked out', or are bored. And, my Fe then cannot push them to listen to my side, because it feels utterly shafted. And, it's probably on me, but, even if I can try to engage the Ne to re-try the convo to make it more interesting, the slight I felt at feeling the other's boredom, and them not voicing it, but pretending to care/listen...shuts it down completely. The progress of the convo is halted.

Thanks, Q. I agree with what you wrote about body language. When someone looks disinterested, I also totally shut down. I try to come up with new topics but it depends on how annoyed I am. Usually my annoyance stems from the fact that I listened to all their boring crap and genuinely tried to be interested and it wasn't reciprocated. It always feels like such a waste of time and effort.

I didn't mention the use of Ti in connecting for a few reasons but I agree that it is an invaluable tool. Especially when it comes to precision, accuracy and refinement of ideas.
 

Tallulah

Emerging
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That was an excellent post, jeno. Definitely gave me some stuff to think about. Ti is definitely a narrowing tool, which can be useful, but it can also give tunnel vision. Sometimes we're aware of that, and sometimes we forget. Sometimes we need an outside observer to help us get out of that Ti rut.
 
Joined
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Yeah, that's an often-experienced situation:

The first minutes of smalltalk, I let them talk about their interests, their energy is flowing, and then... they ask something about me and their body-language switches to desinterest.

One important aspect of connecting seems to be thinking about self-presentation. Only Ne isn't working, but Ne combined with the adapting of your story to the listener (Fe) works. Ne's seems to be more tolerant, they find the interesting facts between the words, for other types this can be hard.
 
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