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[ENTP] ENTP Personality Traits - Female ENTPs v Male ENTPs

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,455
MBTI Type
3h50
What exactly prevents unscrupulous women from abandoning their children in exactly the same way?

It's called "the state throwing your ass in jail if they ever find you". Child-support violations only very rarely bring jail time, as opposed to child abandonment charges.

If we're going to indict the system using people who actively violate its enforced rules as examples, then this is fair game. Women who don't want to deal with raising their kids can "leave the state" or otherwise shirk responsibility just as easily, if they're willing to break the law.

The very essence of a system is in how it deals with bad actors. Otherwise, we wouldn't need a system in the first place. If men were angels, there would be no need for a state, as there would be no need for interpersonal force.

Do you really think men and women, in general, have the same biological reactions to their own children? Even you can't be that shortsighted.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
68
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Different reasons:

- Female ENTP are more seldom than male ENTP --> issues with adapting in society
- The people develop on different ways (some ENTP seem strong F, some seem almost like INTPs, some ENTPs are so well-structured, that they seem almost like ENTJ)
- Maybe you don't know enough ENTPs and have some bad luck ;)

This weekend I learned about enneagram my first time. Really, if you want to compare the behavior of people this tool can work more exactly for you. Maybe you have just met the 3w4 or 7w6 - ENTPs. This can explain it.

How much ENTPs do you have met already?
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I've lived for nearly 22 years as a female, and I've never felt oppressed (at least not in this country) by the fact that I have a vagina. Here a woman is only oppressed insofar as she lets herself be oppressed; there are available opportunities for essentially everybody, and any lacking opportunities are not due to gender biases.

Right, idea is you haven't been oppressed, so therefore it's redundant, gottit. :)
 

Katsuni

Priestess Of Syrinx
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
1,238
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
3w4?
Do you really think men and women, in general, have the same biological reactions to their own children? Even you can't be that shortsighted.

Do yeu really think that men and women, aren't capable of reacting differently than the norm as well? >.>

If the father's a drunk, he looses custody of his kids. If the mother's an alcoholic chain smoking abusive parent she gets virtually guaranteed custody even if the father was a model example of someone who loved his kids.

And honestly, I have seen *ALOT* more abusive mothers than fathers...

Though admittedly most fathers will tend to be more detached from their children, in the 'in general' category yeu are correct, however, the exception to the rule generally places virtually all of the worst parents as the mother as well as the best ones as the mother usually.

Happens when yeu seem to have more emotional investment in yeur kids on average I suppose, but even so...

There's always exceptions to the rule, but people tend to ignore these, and generally it's the kids who get the short end of the stick because of these assumed 'roles' which really aren't all that accurate anymore these days in many cases.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
It's called "the state throwing your ass in jail if they ever find you". Child-support violations only very rarely bring jail time, as opposed to child abandonment charges.



The very essence of a system is in how it deals with bad actors. Otherwise, we wouldn't need a system in the first place. If men were angels, there would be no need for a state, as there would be no need for interpersonal force.

Do you really think men and women, in general, have the same biological reactions to their own children? Even you can't be that shortsighted.

No, but that isn't the issue. The issue is how the law deals with people who abandon their children, not what biological responses gender elicits toward children. Way to sidetrack the discussion so you could get your little personal jab in though. Real classy.

Men who refuse to help care for children are also guilty of child abandonment. Women don't have any greater legal responsibility toward their children than men.

btw, failure to pay child support can and does result in jail time. There is no way the law would be written to separate "men who abandon children" from "women who abandon children" and give them different punishments. You've drawn an imaginary gender line into the law here, when it's really just based on the question: "Did the children have anyone else to care for them after you were gone?"


Women gets pregnant + child is born + man runs away leaving woman to raise child = failure to pay child support
Women gets pregnant + child is born + woman runs away leaving man to raise child = failure to pay child support
Woman gets pregnant + child is born + man dies + woman runs away leaving children alone = child abandonment
Woman gets pregnant + child is born + woman dies + man runs away leaving children alone = child abandonment

The determining factor here is obviously whether there was anyone else left to care for the children, not gender. If a single father abandons his children he's going to get exactly the same legal punishment. You just picked the worse scenario and assigned it to the woman and then used it as evidence that women are discriminated against in this area; that's ridiculous.

Of course, it is easier for a man to disappear before the child is born leaving the woman to care for it, but that's not so much discrimination against or oppression of women as, you know, nature. Yes, women have the biological burden of bearing children--but if you're going to try and pass that off as discrimination, then I don't even know what to tell you.
 

teslashock

Geolectric
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
1,690
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Right, idea is you haven't been oppressed, so therefore it's redundant, gottit. :)

That's not what I said, at all. You're quoting me out of context and taking one small claim from a whole slew of posts and implying that that's the foundation of my argument. It's not.
 

teslashock

Geolectric
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
1,690
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Q:

It might do us both some good in streamlining this discussion if you read my posts with Onemoretime on this thread regarding the issue. Maybe you'd have a better idea of my position then?

Nevertheless, you've given me quite a lot to respond to. Oh glorious Ne fuel:

First and foremost, I'd like to express the view that I do not believe that discrimination against women never occurs in American society. I simply do not believe that this discrimination has a lasting impact on the woman's position. Discrimination is a remnant of the past (Come on guys, it's not even been a century since woman's suffrage was set in place), and while they may be hurtful and frustrating, discriminatory views hold no substantial power here. The reason that women are not in a completely equal position with men, from a numerical viewpoint, is simply due to the fact that they haven't been given enough time to counteract against the old-fashioned notions of the mid 20th century.

You're right when you say that I bash feminism in spite of its good qualities. The good qualities of feminism are not those which I bash, though. I am frustrated with the feminist views that women are still treated as inferiors, that women should be treated with more respect than they currently experience (regardless of whether or not individuals have earned such respect), and that the problems women face are due exclusively to their womanhood.

I do not believe a black women is oppressed by the expanses of American society simply because she is a women. I believe she is oppressed because she is black. Likewise, a hispanic women is not oppressed because she is a woman; she is oppressed because she is a hispanic. An immigrant woman is not oppressed because she is a woman; she is oppressed because she is an immigrant. An impoverished single mother is not oppressed because she is a woman; she is oppressed because she is an impoverished single mother.

I have nothing against movements and organizations that seek to close the gap among different races, ethnicities, and socioeconomic classes. I also have nothing against the movements and organizations that seek to specifically help women within oppressed races, ethnicities, and socioeconomic classes. I find the latter to be tackling a small part of a much larger problem, and some may argue this is a good approach, while others may see the limitations to it. That's beside the point, and not really something I'm prepared to argue for or against in terms of effectiveness. I simply stand by my claim that tackling the belief that women are inherently inferior is futile, as this belief is not widely held nor is it pervasive among modern Americans.

I do possess a certain view on N. American feminism, and this is the view that I'm bashing. The term "feminist" has a seriously negative connotation in contemporary American thought, and it has this connotation because of a stereotype formed and backed by reality. This connotation is one that I admittedly associate with feminism, and the feminism that abides by this connotation is the one that I am bashing and find redundant, futile, and obsolete. Again, though, I do not find movements that seek to help the downtrodden who are actually downtrodden to be redundant and futile. I just do not believe that it's fair to say that the downtrodden are downtrodden because they are women.

I do attest to the fact that differences among gender exist in American society. I never meant to imply that other factors also exist, so therefore gender must not be the cause. It wasn't supposed to be a logical corollary. I simply meant to imply that other factors exist, and these factors are the cause, not gender in and of itself (but again, if we want to help certain groups based on gender, then I can't really be opposed to that, as it's still productive in some way, regardless of whether or not it's the most expansive method out there). My overall belief is that if we want to fight oppression, fighting gender biases is hardly the way to go, as I believe gender biases in America are practically obsolete now.

I do not have a skewed perception of what feminism is. I am merely focusing on one realm of feminism (a significant realm and one that holds substantial weight in modern feminist ideology) and laying out my problems with it.
 

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
1,755
I don't understand the point of the arguement :confused:
It seemed the whole arguement is revolving around semantics
 

tinkerbell

New member
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
3,487
MBTI Type
ENTP
Different reasons:

- Female ENTP are more seldom than male ENTP --> issues with adapting in society
- The people develop on different ways (some ENTP seem strong F, some seem almost like INTPs, some ENTPs are so well-structured, that they seem almost like ENTJ)
- Maybe you don't know enough ENTPs and have some bad luck ;)

This weekend I learned about enneagram my first time. Really, if you want to compare the behavior of people this tool can work more exactly for you. Maybe you have just met the 3w4 or 7w6 - ENTPs. This can explain it.

How much ENTPs do you have met already?


Interesting, do you think we evolve out MBTI from reacting to life or are we born wiht it.

I took an enneagram about 6 weeks ago I came 5, I took it last week I came out 7, I beleive the first site wasn't a good test, I'm not really convienced about enneagrams but I don't know a huge amount about it (and don't get me started on functional anaysis - I may have to start a - how to make your own MBTI segmentation to show case why I don't by it).

Yes - I do think ENTP women and guys have a range, except if you are Trinity who only recongnised the ENTPs she types that way ;)

I have been wokring in a very NT dominant environment, my bosses boss is ENTPs, my boss ENTJs, wider affied, 2x INTJs, 3 x INTPs, 2 supplier ENTPs, I work in senior management there seems a dissporpritionate amount of N types. (trust me when I say my life would be a lot simpler as an ENFP than an ENTP)
 

Orangey

Blah
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
6,354
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
6w5
Sounds to me like you're just overly enthusiastic about going off on your moral high horse (ironically, a behavior which is not so foreign to most who claim to be "feminists").

How is that ironic?

First and foremost, I'd like to express the view that I do not believe that discrimination against women never occurs in American society. I simply do not believe that this discrimination has a lasting impact on the woman's position. Discrimination is a remnant of the past (Come on guys, it's not even been a century since woman's suffrage was set in place), and while they may be hurtful and frustrating, discriminatory views hold no substantial power here. The reason that women are not in a completely equal position with men, from a numerical viewpoint, is simply due to the fact that they haven't been given enough time to counteract against the old-fashioned notions of the mid 20th century.

You're right when you say that I bash feminism in spite of its good qualities. The good qualities of feminism are not those which I bash, though. I am frustrated with the feminist views that women are still treated as inferiors, that women should be treated with more respect than they currently experience (regardless of whether or not individuals have earned such respect), and that the problems women face are due exclusively to their womanhood.

I do not believe a black women is oppressed by the expanses of American society simply because she is a women. I believe she is oppressed because she is black. Likewise, a hispanic women is not oppressed because she is a woman; she is oppressed because she is a hispanic. An immigrant woman is not oppressed because she is a woman; she is oppressed because she is an immigrant. An impoverished single mother is not oppressed because she is a woman; she is oppressed because she is an impoverished single mother.

I have nothing against movements and organizations that seek to close the gap among different races, ethnicities, and socioeconomic classes. I also have nothing against the movements and organizations that seek to specifically help women within oppressed races, ethnicities, and socioeconomic classes. I find the latter to be tackling a small part of a much larger problem, and some may argue this is a good approach, while others may see the limitations to it. That's beside the point, and not really something I'm prepared to argue for or against in terms of effectiveness. I simply stand by my claim that tackling the belief that women are inherently inferior is futile, as this belief is not widely held nor is it pervasive among modern Americans.

I do possess a certain view on N. American feminism, and this is the view that I'm bashing. The term "feminist" has a seriously negative connotation in contemporary American thought, and it has this connotation because of a stereotype formed and backed by reality. This connotation is one that I admittedly associate with feminism, and the feminism that abides by this connotation is the one that I am bashing and find redundant, futile, and obsolete. Again, though, I do not find movements that seek to help the downtrodden who are actually downtrodden to be redundant and futile. I just do not believe that it's fair to say that the downtrodden are downtrodden because they are women.

I do attest to the fact that differences among gender exist in American society. I never meant to imply that other factors also exist, so therefore gender must not be the cause. It wasn't supposed to be a logical corollary. I simply meant to imply that other factors exist, and these factors are the cause, not gender in and of itself (but again, if we want to help certain groups based on gender, then I can't really be opposed to that, as it's still productive in some way, regardless of whether or not it's the most expansive method out there). My overall belief is that if we want to fight oppression, fighting gender biases is hardly the way to go, as I believe gender biases in America are practically obsolete now.

I do not have a skewed perception of what feminism is. I am merely focusing on one realm of feminism (a significant realm and one that holds substantial weight in modern feminist ideology) and laying out my problems with it.

Oh my word, this post is so flagrantly imbecilic that I don't even know where to begin. I was literally flabbergasted into speechlessness for several minutes after my initial read. I think instead of trying to dissect this beast, as you'll likely fail to acknowledge it anyway (and I already have a fucking headache) I'll just say two things:

(1) I have suggested this before, but I'll spell it out more explicitly for you this time. You are largely ignorant on the subject of "feminism" and should therefore refrain from speaking as though you know what you're talking about. Or else read a Wikipedia page before you do for chrissakes.

Though I know you will refuse to listen, your perception of "feminism," even if you have modified it in light of criticisms not to encompass all feminisms (althought now it's apparently the one that "holds substantial weight in modern feminist ideology," lol), is so idiotic that I can't believe anyone could think such things without feeling the need to surreptitiously self-flaggelate. But not to worry, I will cure you of your ignorance, or at least this particular manifestation of it (because that's what a selfless person I am.)

Here we go...now répéter après moi: there is no such thing as a "substantial" feminist ideology holding that women should be treated with more respect than they are currently, even if they don't deserve it (lol what?), that women are viewed by the majority as inferior beings and treated as such (most feminist thought today is very far past issues of conscious discrimination), and that the problems that women face are due solely to their womanhood (lol, what?). Where are you getting this from? I don't even know how to go about theoretically placing these views, because they are so ridiculous as to be beyond identification even as malicious steretypes of feminism. The closest I can get is to suggest that they are MAYBE your own botched interpretation of certain second-wave feminist tenets mixed with a little radical or cultural feminism, and some of the hand-holding, "sob sister" stuff of liberal feminism (e.g., anti-porn, "take back the night," media campaigns to end eating disorders, feel-good stuff about body issues, the Dove campaign, "the patriarchy ruined my life" kind of stuff.) But even if that's the case, your interpretation is still way off and makes little sense, even as satire or humorous exaggeration.

Your other definition of feminism is not much better, though I think you were going less for accuracy and more for rhetorical effect.

Feminists seem to think it's productive to beg for respect, pointedly remark on times when they are not treated with respect, and blame it on the fact that their lack of respect is due to deep-rooted societal notions on what a female ought to be.

"Begging for respect" is likely your interpretation of what these particular feminists you have in mind do, and the phrase choice was, as mentioned, probably rhetorical, so I'll leave this one. As to pointedly remarking on not being treated with respect, again, I don't know what specific feminist or feminists you are referring to here, but this has more to do with specific practices of feminism by individuals than feminist ideologies, or feminism generally. Are you talking about women complaining about sexual harassment in the workplace or something? Finally, as to blaming disrespect on deep-rooted societal notions of what a female should be, this is just another instantiation of your "they think the problems women face are due solely to their womanhood" nonsense, which I've already addressed.

If I were to give your views a more generous interpretation, I might say that perhaps you read some Camille Paglia, or leafed through some of her writing, and proceeded to (badly) misunderstand what she was saying while still retaining all of her attitude and fervor against the anti-porn, Gloria Steinem feminists of the late 80s and 90s. But you would not even accept a Paglia view, because she advocates for full political and legal equality with men, which she is not naive enough to believe to be already accomplished. And she calls herself a feminist for that reason (but she stands in opposition to a lot of the 90s institutionalized feminism of the academy, and even a lot of the prominent feminisms now, because she rejects the French theorists, who have been HUGELY influential to feminist theory, rejects feminist critiques of media (also often born out of feminist appropriations of the French theories), advocates open sexuality as liberatory, and advocates the marriage of aesthetics and feminism.)

(2) Your views on gender oppression are incoherent. At one point you claim that:

I do not believe that discrimination against women never occurs in American society

And that:

The reason that women are not in a completely equal position with men, from a numerical viewpoint, is simply due to the fact that they haven't been given enough time to counteract against the old-fashioned notions of the mid 20th century

But then you come back and say:

I believe gender biases in America are practically obsolete now.

Do you really not see the incoherence here? How can you simultaneously explain current gender inequality as a carry-over of old notions that have not been fully "counteracted" yet (and are thus still causing gender inequality, though to a diluted degree when compared to history), and maintain the belief that there are no "gender biases" in operation today? Further, how can simultaneously claim that:

I simply do not believe that this discrimination has a lasting impact on the woman's position. Discrimination is a remnant of the past (Come on guys, it's not even been a century since woman's suffrage was set in place), and while they may be hurtful and frustrating, discriminatory views hold no substantial power here.

...which implicitly assume the existence of gender discrimination (though you claim, based on God-knows-what, that it has no power or effect), AND maintain that gender biases are "obsolete?" That is an explicit contradiction. You make no sense.

Also, you have erroneously established a hierarchy in which discriminations based on color, ethnicity, SES, or anything else except gender are considered more fundamental than those based on gender (which, as I pointed out, you seem to hold contradictory views about.) This flies in the face of all contemporary theories of power and oppression, which suggest either that (a) the various "lines of oppression" (race, gender, class, sexuality), a term I take from Deleuze and Guattari's A Thousand Plateaus, interact in complex and unpredictable ways with one another and with the systems that enact their oppression, or (b) that the interaction of these "lines of oppression" can be identified only by careful investigation of the context in which any specific manifestation of oppression is thought to occur. Now, that is not to say that these theories are right (I tend to think most of them just manage to say obvious things in a complex way, or else they flat out don't make sense), but just that you, with your view of "blackness over femaleness," would have been seen as naive by theorists as far back as the 80s.

And anyway, I don't even know why I'm telling you any of this, as the only basis you have for your "blackness over femaleness," or "third-world-ness over femaleness," is that you, at least part of the time, and despite the contradictions posed by your other stated beliefs, deny the existence of gender discrimination based on how you personally feel about the situation. And don't deny it...I have you redhanded here:

I've lived for nearly 22 years as a female, and I've never felt oppressed (at least not in this country) by the fact that I have a vagina.

Trinity and onemoretime (though I am not implicating them in my viewpoints by mentioning their usernames, so keep that in mind) did not take you out of context when they called you on this, because you offer no other justification for your beliefs. This is the only possible thing that could be interpreted as a justification in all of your drivel. Let me remind you:

I simply meant to suggest that females are equal in today's society so much as they want to be equal, and it takes some sort of "rigorous" thinking to see that. Most "feminists" simply wish to victimize themselves by finding ways that they are not equal rather than by indirectly tackling any such notions via working independently from them. Feminists seem to think it's productive to beg for respect, pointedly remark on times when they are not treated with respect, and blame it on the fact that their lack of respect is due to deep-rooted societal notions on what a female ought to be. The only way for anybody, females included, to gain respect is to earn it, and if one earns respect, she'll get it, regardless of her gender.

Here a woman is only oppressed insofar as she lets herself be oppressed; there are available opportunities for essentially everybody, and any lacking opportunities are not due to gender biases. An active feminist movement in America is outdated and redundant (regardless of where such movement falls on the radical scale), and until we let go of it, women will never realize that their problems have nothing to do with societal oppression and everything to do with their own frame of mind.

All you do is assert what you think is the reality of the situation. In neither of the above two paragraphs do you ever once provide any reasoning, evidence, or anything else of a justificatory nature (except the personal feelings remark.)

As a closing remark, I'll just say that perhaps you might think about reflecting on why you have such a hostile attitude toward the word "feminism" when, even if it is ridiculous and outmoded as you say, it shouldn't bother you any more than, say, fringe religions or any other organization with an agenda. I don't see you ranting about Wiccans (but there might be a connection with feminism there, so bad example.) What's your specific beef with "feminism?"
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,589
Enneagram
827
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
ugh... I hate how every discussion on gender differences always boils down to babies :sick:

the fucking idea that I'm expected to reproduce, as a sexually active 20-something female in a stable relationship is something that's thrown in my face all of the time by people ranging from doctors to friends to family members... I feel no connection to children and we've agreed that neither of us wants children! :steam:

seriously- that's an example on its own of how society treats the genders differently- I'm not a fucking baby factory like I get thrown at me all of the time

and I don't see why I always got in more trouble for the same misbehavior as they boys when I was a kid just because it wasn't ladylike behavior... seriously, that line was used on me! you might not run across it, but as a particularly rambunctious ExTP child I got reminded that it's ok for boys to do dangerous things but not girls all of the time
 

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
6,387
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
You seem more like an ENFP to me.

No, tink definitely seems ENTP to me. I've noticed that a lot of the ENTPs hate on her. Which surprises me because I always get a kick out of her. Never know what she is going to say next. Right or wrong, that girl is going to let loose no matter how unpopular her sentiments may be.

I think it might be enneagram more than gender. I don't care about arguing some pointless bull.


Fluxkom, King-of-Despair, and Synarch are guys, but I relate to a lot of what they say. Not as much with a lot of the other guys.

The women I relate to the most are probably Trinity, Jenocyde, and you (Whatever).

I could have written this, substituting my name for yours, of course. And adding OMT and Gamine.

I think I come off more like the guy ENTPs than the girls, online. Because, I don't come here to avoid conflict and make nice. I come here to play, shoot the (bull)shit, and call it like it is. And, I argue. :D

And, keep at it, because, well, what else is there to do? That's all we have here, written responses to each other, it's not like my arguing is taking up valuable time for us to go and get coffee together or some shit. I also don't think I just pick disagreements with any random person. It's either because I see glaring inconsistency in a thought, or that someone is thinking themselves on some kind of pedestal (which becomes a call for a challenge :devil:), or, something about their online personality, some twist in the facade, beckons me to poke at it.

Of the ENTPs here, I think I'm closest to this weirdo:


:doh:

Except, in arguments, I'm less obscure and explain my points while he just moves on to the next (cuz if you don't get it, whateves!)

Edit: I actually identify with Jeno a lot too, when I'm not being silly. ;)



+1



I don't think any of us come on here to make nice. I just pick and choose what I respond to since I don't like getting into pointless debates. But when I start, it's on.

I also identify with you strongly.

We are similar in the fact that we will tell people exactly what we think. Where we differ is that I only say it once. You are very persistent, for sure. I get a little amazed how some arguments span multiple threads over the course of days or weeks. I just can't be bothered.

But I still don't think you come off as an ENTP guy. In my opinion, a lot of the younger ENTP males come off as arrogant pricks who blow a lot of hot air. You always seem to know what you are talking about, so I don't get that impression from you.

Just my 2 cents.


Also, I couldn't get past page 3 of all this silly bickering, so my (fake) apologies for not posting anything relevant to anyone else's posts.
 

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
Joined
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6,387
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7w8
That all being said, I also relate strongly to the INTP women, as well.
The men? Not so much, but sometimes.
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,589
Enneagram
827
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
wow... I sound militant above... probably carry-over from another thread...

just a bit annoyed at restrictions based on demographics I guess :doh:

any demographics really
 

JocktheMotie

Habitual Fi LineStepper
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
8,491
IMO, I've found the NTP m/f split to be nearly night and day. Both women seem to be far more well rounded. The men tend to fall into extreme ends of certain spectra. BlueMonday had good thoughts about this, forget where it was she wrote them though.
 

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
6,387
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ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
IMO, I've found the NTP m/f split to be nearly night and day. Both women seem to be far more well rounded. The men tend to fall into extreme ends of certain spectra. BlueMonday had good thoughts about this, forget where it was she wrote them though.

Exactly, this is what I mean.
 

tinkerbell

New member
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
3,487
MBTI Type
ENTP
No, tink definitely seems ENTP to me. I've noticed that a lot of the ENTPs hate on her. Which surprises me because I always get a kick out of her. Never know what she is going to say next. Right or wrong, that girl is going to let loose no matter how unpopular her sentiments may be.
.

Ah bless I feel so validated... SPARKLE....

Actually the ribbing toned down when I changed my avatar... weird really the avatar was a caracture of me... LOL hmmm not sure what to make of that.

I consider out-there options, way beyond what other NT's and I'm just not 20 years old. LOL

So ought I to start the discussion on why hooking up functional analysis and MBTI is flawed I wonder... hum ho....

oopps

I did also want to contribute to the OP's

I ran a thread on ENTP org site on that ENTP men often seem more F than other men, not in an effeminate way, just gentler in some respect.... so it's not just that ENTP women are different from men generaly but ENTP men are different from other men. ENTP men tend to be more cultured, rounder education, more likely to be into art, and the likes ie not football and boxing types....

I think ENTP changes dramatically with age. as young kids they are joyous in discovery, teen years are harsh where they migrate often from a gawkiness, socialy uncomfortable to be more outgoing, migrating to late teens early 20s over doing it... late 20's thorugh mid 30's drifting through experiences, not really hearnesing their abilites until the get near their 40s etc.... (actually I see that type of path with lots of NTs)
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
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7w6
Interesting, do you think we evolve out MBTI from reacting to life or are we born wiht it.

Ah, tinker. Sometimes I have problems understanding the english you use ;) Let me try to give an answer to what I understand as not-native english-speaker. Yes, I think, we are fixed in type, and we develop some little aspects in our younger years. You wrote about the biography of ENTPs here

I think ENTP changes dramatically with age. as young kids they are joyous in discovery, teen years are harsh where they migrate often from a gawkiness, socialy uncomfortable to be more outgoing, migrating to late teens early 20s over doing it . . .

and I find myself in your words. I believe, if you can type a child, and type it 15 years after again, then you get a consistent picture.

I took an enneagram about 6 weeks ago I came 5, I took it last week I came out 7, I beleive the first site wasn't a good test, I'm not really convienced about enneagrams but I don't know a huge amount about it (and don't get me started on functional anaysis - I may have to start a - how to make your own MBTI segmentation to show case why I don't by it).

I don't work just with tests. My first test gave me 6, and first I really believed, that was right based on the description. But I read the descriptions of the neighbored types, and found out, that this mistyping was because of a very strong wing. On another site I recognized, that 6 was really impossible. The test gave me 7 as really "unlikely", but 7 was correct.

So I am sceptical about the correctness of tests. The best test is to evaluate the test-output for yourself. The rest I don't understand in this context ;)

________________

I think there is a difference between men and women, and it's more than type-correlation. But I cannot describe it. I heard about different "ranking systems" (different factors) in male and female sub-societys. Maybe we can work with this thought, if we want to discuss it. Other arguments are coming from biology (it is clear, that different bodys, different neurological structures and different hormonal balance must build different personalities).

@Whatever:
You had spoken strictly against having children. I wonder about that. Can you explain your reasons? I thought, there is an subconscious signal to women, which forces them to think about this. Maybe in the later years?

I ran a thread on ENTP org site on that ENTP men often seem more F than other men, not in an effeminate way, just gentler in some respect.... so it's not just that ENTP women are different from men generaly but ENTP men are different from other men. ENTP men tend to be more cultured, rounder education, more likely to be into art, and the likes ie not football and boxing types....

Yep, this can be right. If I compare myself with other males, I could think, I am F. Long time I thought I am ENFP, just functional analysis brought the difference.

All in all my experiences with ENTPs brought: One ENTP-woman, very direct and a sort of gentle aggressiveness. And much ENTP-males, more introverted, but strong when you engage them in some task.
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
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@Whatever:
You had spoken strictly against having children. I wonder about that. Can you explain your reasons? I thought, there is an subconscious signal to women, which forces them to think about this. Maybe in the later years?


I really just think that they are pretty annoying and don't like to have to spend so much time on them- I'll admit it- I'm selfish :)

I have enough going on with the man and the dog really- and I really don't beleive that its necissary that everyone SHOULD reproduce- so I'm quite willing to remove myself from the gene pool!
 

tinkerbell

New member
Joined
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Messages
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Ah, tinker. Sometimes I have problems understanding the english you use ;) Let me try to give an answer to what I understand as not-native english-speaker. Yes, I think, we are fixed in type, and we develop some little aspects in our younger years. You wrote about the biography of ENTPs here



and I find myself in your words. I believe, if you can type a child, and type it 15 years after again, then you get a consistent picture.



I don't work just with tests. My first test gave me 6, and first I really believed, that was right based on the description. But I read the descriptions of the neighbored types, and found out, that this mistyping was because of a very strong wing. On another site I recognized, that 6 was really impossible. The test gave me 7 as really "unlikely", but 7 was correct.

So I am sceptical about the correctness of tests. The best test is to evaluate the test-output for yourself. The rest I don't understand in this context ;)

________________

I think there is a difference between men and women, and it's more than type-correlation. But I cannot describe it. I heard about different "ranking systems" (different factors) in male and female sub-societys. Maybe we can work with this thought, if we want to discuss it. Other arguments are coming from biology (it is clear, that different bodys, different neurological structures and different hormonal balance must build different personalities).

@Whatever:
You had spoken strictly against having children. I wonder about that. Can you explain your reasons? I thought, there is an subconscious signal to women, which forces them to think about this. Maybe in the later years?



Yep, this can be right. If I compare myself with other males, I could think, I am F. Long time I thought I am ENFP, just functional analysis brought the difference.

All in all my experiences with ENTPs brought: One ENTP-woman, very direct and a sort of gentle aggressiveness. And much ENTP-males, more introverted, but strong when you engage them in some task.


I always enjoy your posts....

I am dyslexic, which makes my English harder, but also I use bad grammer and other stuff... which probably adds even more difficulty, but you do well.

Ok I see what you mean about the nature nurture thing, I do think peoples types are laid down very early on but there is a development curve... I beleive I was ENTP at 4 but that was a 4 year old ENTP... which is different from an 14 year old one (much less inhibited). I do have a gut feeling that 14-20 people choose to be E or I.... depending on how they choose to develop. A lot of my ENTP people seem pretty artifically E.... like they are I's trying to hard.. that in natural repose they act like chatty I's... (I know t's MBTI E not regular extroversion, and they are totally E really)

LOL I like your views of Enngrame tests, it sounds about right, I will look at the types and see what fits.... I am skeptical.


ENTP men are just gentler... difficult to describe, I wouldn't say F, but I really don't know many ENFP's
 
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