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[NT] What Compels An NT to Cheat?

LadyJaye

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I know that NT's find the concept of cheating on a spouse to generally be repellant, but I know of two men, both ENTJ's, who continue to cheat on their spouses, all the while maintaining their marriages. I'm not looking to morally crucify these people, I was just curious as to what sort of conditions would have to be present for an NT to rationalize this? From my own viewpoint, I would rather tell the person I was in a relationship with that I wasn't satisfied with it, be upfront about it, and then end it, rather than persist with a marriage I was unhappy in. Would having children make a difference to them? Or is it an issue of being perceived as successful? That divorce would somehow reflect on them as a failure?
 

sakuraba

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and as an entj... knowing ur good enuff 2 get away w it
 

JAVO

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It's interesting that these are ENTJs. I think the ENTJ type is probably one of the "most likely to succeed" at managing more than one intimate relationship. Also, they're probably most likely to derive fulfillment at being able to manage the challenge of this.

Maybe they're not really dissatisfied with their primary relationship? It could be that they knew or perceived their partner as having already cheated. A sudden lack of sexual desire might be perceived similarly. Or, maybe they rationalized that it was ok to challenge themself with another relationship as long as their partner didn't find out. (The "what they don't know can't hurt them" belief.)

I think you're right in that having children would make them more likely to want to cheat rather than just end the relationship to avoid hurting the children. The "divorce equals failure" mentality might be a factor, depending on the individual's attitude towards marriage and divorce.
 

substitute

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I've also seen it with ENTJ's... it can be a bad thing, obviously, but I wouldn't too quickly leap to a conclusion that it's always bad, cos quite often an ENTJ marriage, if they pick the right person who's on their wavelength, is a bit of a business arrangement, a convenience thing, for both parties, and there's little love lost between them in the F type of way. Bit like the Clintons... so, they both have their fun and they both know about it, they both turn a blind eye for the sake of appearance/face etc, because in reality neither of them really needs the other to be completely faithful. But because image is important, they do expect each other to be discreet.

I tend to go on the side of only seeing something as 'wrong' or 'bad' if someone's getting hurt by it. If nobody's getting hurt, and all parties are fully aware and going in with their eyes open, I don't see any harm in it.
 

white

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Dated an ENTJ before, and while being with him was fun, you do realise at the back of your head, he's constantly evaluating what he can get from you, and what he can get away with, and he gives accordingly. i.e. he sees you for what value he can get. While he may not be representative of all ENTJs;

but if we extrapolate that to marriage... One cannot be everything to everyone. So perhaps to an ENTJ, the marriage fulfills some needs - status, image of success (family and career working well), stability for raising children with a partner who's able to help in his career/social life in some way. The affair merely fulfills other needs. Excitement. Challenge. Sex? And in some societies, the fact that a guy is maintaining a second family/affair adds to his social catchet, doesn't it. . . And if both partners do not know, what's the value in breaking up one of the relationships when you can have the best of both worlds, literally.

But to be fair, I'm not certain one type is prone to cheating while other types are not?
 

LadyJaye

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and as an entj... knowing ur good enuff 2 get away w it

So, by "getting away with it", you mean not getting caught? Or even if you are caught, somehow managing to keep the first relationship in tact?

I think you're right in that having children would make them more likely to want to cheat rather than just end the relationship to avoid hurting the children. The "divorce equals failure" mentality might be a factor, depending on the individual's attitude towards marriage and divorce.

My closest friend is an ENTJ, and while her marriage is volatile, explosive and sometimes violent, she tells me that to divorce would be a failure. But a failure in her own eyes, or a failure in the eyes of others?

I've also seen it with ENTJ's... it can be a bad thing, obviously, but I wouldn't too quickly leap to a conclusion that it's always bad, cos quite often an ENTJ marriage, if they pick the right person who's on their wavelength, is a bit of a business arrangement, a convenience thing, for both parties, and there's little love lost between them in the F type of way. Bit like the Clintons... so, they both have their fun and they both know about it, they both turn a blind eye for the sake of appearance/face etc, because in reality neither of them really needs the other to be completely faithful. But because image is important, they do expect each other to be discreet.

I tend to go on the side of only seeing something as 'wrong' or 'bad' if someone's getting hurt by it. If nobody's getting hurt, and all parties are fully aware and going in with their eyes open, I don't see any harm in it.

Thank you so much. See, this is why the NT perspective is so valuable to me, as it makes sense somehow even though it's not anything like my own. :D you were dead on about the "business arrangement" concept. As a matter of fact, I've had that exact phrase used on me by an ENTJ as their reasoning for pursuing a relationship, even though many other elements important to them were missing from it.

Dated an ENTJ before, and while being with him was fun, you do realise at the back of your head, he's constantly evaluating what he can get from you, and what he can get away with, and he gives accordingly. i.e. he sees you for what value he can get. While he may not be representative of all ENTJs;

but if we extrapolate that to marriage... One cannot be everything to everyone. So perhaps to an ENTJ, the marriage fulfills some needs - status, image of success (family and career working well), stability for raising children with a partner who's able to help in his career/social life in some way. The affair merely fulfills other needs. Excitement. Challenge. Sex? And in some societies, the fact that a guy is maintaining a second family/affair adds to his social catchet, doesn't it. . . And if both partners do not know, what's the value in breaking up one of the relationships when you can have the best of both worlds, literally.

But to be fair, I'm not certain one type is prone to cheating while other types are not?

A very good point - status and stability, or at least the appearance of it, seems to be extremely important in their family set up. So, what would induce a person to ever be "faithful" ( in the societal view of the term ) if one's value system was entirely removed from everyone else's, as it seems that social pressure and conforming to social norms have absolutely zero effect on them?

Yes, to be fair, all types are prone to infidelity, because we're all human and have our own weaknesses to contend with. I've never cheated on anyone before, and I couldn't imagine myself doing it, but I wouldn't be arrogant enough to assume that I would be immune to it.
 
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The Ü™

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I dunno, but sometimes I cheat on my video games if I'm stuck and want to see what happens at the end of the story. If I cheat, I always cheat with the God mode (I do like the idea of killing but not dying).
 

Blackwater

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Maybe its just sexual malnutrition in the primary relationship? :popc1:

I generally do not think that infidelity has much to do with personality type, but some general trends could probably be derived from how the types handle their cheating. Some types have a hard time saying no to the good times, even if those times happen to be going on between the sheets (that would be ESFP/ ENFP/ ENFJ) and others have an easy time justifying their corrupt behavior through mock rationality (that would be the NTJs). :thumbdown:
 

Magic Poriferan

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You conveniently, and I believe inaccurately, left out the ENTP, Blackwater.
 

white

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You conveniently, and I believe inaccurately, left out the ENTP, Blackwater.

hmm. I cannot speak for everyone, but personally, the idea of cheating on a marriage partner is anathema to me. But perhaps that is because of upbringing/culture.

Trying to think like an ENTP, I'd say an ENTP would probably not get married in the first place, if they were to tend towards cheating, since simply, they'd not be interested in closing off options and it'd take too much energy to maintain two (or more?!) deep relationships vs you could hop between many without strings.

And while much catches our fancy, few things catch our heart. So for an ENTP to want to get married in the first place, it'd mean something made sense to want to stop rolling, in a way. For me, that'd be a deep connection. And to find that is rare. So I'm not sure I'd ever risk that. The heart's a fragile thing.

Not sure if that makes sense.. :huh:
 

JAVO

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My closest friend is an ENTJ, and while her marriage is volatile, explosive and sometimes violent, she tells me that to divorce would be a failure. But a failure in her own eyes, or a failure in the eyes of others?

A failure in her own eyes--making a bad decision about one of the most significant decisions in life.

On the other hand, it would even be a much bigger failure to remain in a violent relationship where one's safety or life is threatened. If her relationship is like this, it's already a failure (and my guess is it's not her fault?). Her only failure now would be to stay in the marriage, and the sooner she realizes this, the better the rest of her life will be. I would confront her with this decision in these terms.
 

sakuraba

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ENTJ is very good at predicting your next step, so naturally we're also good at covering up our own.

Also having Fi as the weakest function helps block out any guilt. Perhaps even rationalizing the cheating to a point where there seriously is ZERO guilt on our mind.


However, I would only cheat if I knew the primary relationship was going nowhere. I dont think I would do it if I truly loved the girl and saw myself having a serious future with her. In that case I would not cheat.


Many people who cheat do it spontaneously with out thinking ahead or planning it. Which makes it easy for them to regret it or get caught. NT's in general are not giving into impulses. If an ENTJ is cheating, you can be sure theyve thought it out in there head and made sure theyll be able to handle it with ease.
 

substitute

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If an ENTJ is cheating, you can be sure theyve thought it out in there head and made sure theyll be able to handle it with ease.

Yes... which for some people might just make it even more deplorable... beastliness aforethought and all that.

Since when did you change to ENTJ? I was sure you were ENTP last time I looked! :blink:
 

Gabe

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"Some types have a hard time saying no to the good times, even if those times happen to be going on between the sheets (that would be ESFP/ ENFP/ ENFJ) and others have an easy time justifying their corrupt behavior through mock rationality (that would be the NTJs)."

May i suggest that postmodernmind.com is an extremely unreliable source, Blackwater? It isn't even written by someone who's MBTI qualified. It's just some existentialist dude. WTF? (I am of the opinion that existentialism is a load of crap). But really, it's not his lack of credentials that I hate, it's that in his posts he singles out certian types as being worse or better than other types. Really! It seems like almost everything that you write about E_F_ types is lifted almost directly from some rant of his about "Bill Clinton=E__P, therefore they're cheating scum" or some bullshit like that. And I am getting seriously SICK of reading excerpts from that page.
The author of postmodern mind doesn't even really know type theory, that's why he always presents E__P as rediculous and pathetic people .
Earth to you, you don't have any more integrity than any of those type's that you just mentioned. And niether does anyone else! If you will respond to my posts I will be willing to explain why you are WRONG on so many assumptions about the types (including my type). I'll also refer you to some sites that are written by people who actually know what they're talking about.

Dario Nardi PhD Home Page
Interstrength Associates
16types.com
 

hotmale

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I've also seen it with ENTJ's... it can be a bad thing, obviously, but I wouldn't too quickly leap to a conclusion that it's always bad, cos quite often an ENTJ marriage, if they pick the right person who's on their wavelength, is a bit of a business arrangement, a convenience thing, for both parties, and there's little love lost between them in the F type of way. Bit like the Clintons... so, they both have their fun and they both know about it, they both turn a blind eye for the sake of appearance/face etc, because in reality neither of them really needs the other to be completely faithful. But because image is important, they do expect each other to be discreet.

I tend to go on the side of only seeing something as 'wrong' or 'bad' if someone's getting hurt by it. If nobody's getting hurt, and all parties are fully aware and going in with their eyes open, I don't see any harm in it.

Now, if are assuming that two people have an "open relationship" then it's not cheating, is it?

Also, I thought talking about the sexual lives of politicians was just a tacky American thing. I guess though we can't not include them in our penchant specimen of MBTI examples. :)
 

LadyJaye

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A failure in her own eyes--making a bad decision about one of the most significant decisions in life.

On the other hand, it would even be a much bigger failure to remain in a violent relationship where one's safety or life is threatened. If her relationship is like this, it's already a failure (and my guess is it's not her fault?). Her only failure now would be to stay in the marriage, and the sooner she realizes this, the better the rest of her life will be. I would confront her with this decision in these terms.


I completely agree about the greater failure being in remaining in a violent relationship, rather than in admitting to having chosen a poor partner. But, she doesn't see it this way, and goodness knows I've talked with her about it exhaustively. When logic becomes clouded by denial, it seems like there is absolutely no prevailing upon it. :|
 

white

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I completely agree about the greater failure being in remaining in a violent relationship, rather than in admitting to having chosen a poor partner. But, she doesn't see it this way, and goodness knows I've talked with her about it exhaustively. When logic becomes clouded by denial, it seems like there is absolutely no prevailing upon it. :|

I've worked with abused children before, and frequently, the parents are in denial, especially if one of the parents had been the abuser. The child will also usually tell you that "daddy/mommy is very nice, they love me and only want what is good for me. I've been a bad child". You can point out that the things that have been done to them is sick and wrong, but it does not matter to them. They know no other life, simply.

It is not the mindset you have to break, as rationality (for a normal person who'd have evaluated that violence as being worse) is not the issue. It lies with the heart. It is usually someone of strong will, with high expectations of themselves, inability to express themselves well, strong pride/dignity. And inside, they are deeply in pain/anger. The knot is in the heart?

That's why directly confronting the issue only drives the denial deeper. You cannot replace what is hard-wired in the brain by years of conditioning by simply taking it out. That leaves a gap in them, and the knowledge that they've made the wrong choice and lived with it for years. And perhaps what they fear most is that emptiness/failure vs the constant emotional turmoil which you've gotten used to.

What I've found useful is more to refocus them onto more positive things, to engage them in more areas of life. For people who've been hurt, something to do, a listening ear, and discipline (interms of knowing when to be hard and when to be soft on themselves), changes things more. Gradually, they'll come to the realisation that there're more than one ways to live life. And hopefully, they'll learn to forgive themselves, and it is only then they can walk away. Change is an evolution, not a revolution..

Hope that helps.. :blush:

* If you want to force the issue, you'd have to get a court order, if the violence becomes abuse. Where I'm from, most of the cases of abuse are reported by 3rd parties e.g. teachers. The courts then evaluate and remove the child from the parents if necessary. Harsh, but safer.
 
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