[MBTI General] Improving the ENTP's inferior Si

[BlackCat]

If you're really bad at remembering stuff, I'd say you should make a connection or something that relates to the thing you're trying to remember in a totally stupid way. That makes it easier for me (and probably anyone); and I'd say it would make inferior Si in a study environment a lot easier. Otherwise if you're bad at it and it stresses you out in your daily life; shit on it.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Ah! That's interesting.

Keep in mind that I only have your few words to go on. But that does seem most likely from what you said. Doesn't say he actually is. If I knew more I could make a better assesment. Although I find that I'm never that far off.

 

[Asterion]

If you're really bad at remembering stuff, I'd say you should make a connection or something that relates to the thing you're trying to remember in a totally stupid way. That makes it easier for me (and probably anyone); and I'd say it would make inferior Si in a study environment a lot easier. Otherwise if you're bad at it and it stresses you out in your daily life; shit on it.

okay...

note to self: I left my cup in the proton extraction chamber, underneath the luminous killer bee hive

 

[Heart&Brain]

But I do remember lots of useless knowledge like that psychological research shows that poeple are attracted to members of the opposite sex that look like what they would look like if they changed gender. ie You fancy people with similar genetics.

I think the reason I remember that stuff is Ti. It was a conclusion that made me think and so I engaged it with Ti a function I know well. So what I try to do to remember stuff is engage it with Ti and when I do it often works quite well.

But I still to always keep postit notes and a pen ready incase.

I do the very same - remember that violent death was statistically more probable for the Europeans at any time during the "good" old days than in the "immoral" 20th century, worldwars and everything included. Don't remember who wrote it or where they did so, though. Unless I write it down and memorise it .

So I think what you describe is the ENxP's Ne, percieving every bit of information that makes us understand more of the wide world. Various interests spreading all over post-it notes and always associating out loud with a pile of odd insights, ideas and contents, that's pretty Ne: no trivia, no name-droppings, no freaking pomp and circumstance, only meaning-bits are allowed to inhabit these strange connective patterns...

Your Ti would be what's sifting and judging the bits worth your prolonged attention for truthful consistency and how to connect it in interesting ways with what you already know.

My Fi is doing the same for me, only with emphasis on what's valuable, what bits are ethically promising, consistent or unacceptable because of the patterns they participate in and their intellectual 'load' of interest, disgust, excitement, shallowness, manipulation, potentiality etc...

 

[tinkerbell]

I remember some increadible detail but I also only focus on the bits I need so can be forgetful of some of the micro stuff when I am looking at the issue as a whole....

When I navagate when driving I tend to use the big pucture maps when driving at a distance then use the smaller maps when I get a lot closer to where I need to be.

I can remmeber small details - usualy trivia many years after I've learned them... such as a kid in primary school told me what her bro's middle name was when she was about 6.... and I dropped it into a conversation when she was 17 and she was shocked....

I know a former friends of mines dad really likes minestroni soup, never met the man, but can remember it all these years on.....

Sometime Ic an quote people verbatim.... other times when my brain is over crowded its s struggle to remember my name.

Also if my brain is relaxed I can remember things better, sometimes if you do repetative tasks you can access your unconsious memory better... hence remember things when ironing or cooking etc...

 

[CJ99]

My Fi is doing the same for me, only with emphasis on what's valuable, what bits are ethically promising, consistent or unacceptable because of the patterns they participate in and their intellectual 'load' of interest, disgust, excitement, shallowness, manipulation, potentiality etc...

Yeah exactly. An Fi person will remember things based on personal feelings. Like my sis (INFP) alway talks about things we have done together from a feeling view point. Like that was fun or that annoyed me. She remembers word for word everything my mum says that makes her feel sad or annoyed because she had a strong emotional reaction to the situation.

Much like I can remember many interesting facts because I remember the logical prossess I went through when I first analysed them. I can remember perfectly the story of Issac Newton figuring out gravity because It involved a logical thought prossess - and even better one with intuition and logic - but I couldn't ell you any of his laws of motion because I can't remember the prossess of figurng them out.

 

[fill]

Yeah exactly. An Fi person will remember things based on personal feelings. Like my sis (INFP) alway talks about things we have done together from a feeling view point. Like that was fun or that annoyed me. She remembers word for word everything my mum says that makes her feel sad or annoyed because she had a strong emotional reaction to the situation.

Much like I can remember many interesting facts because I remember the logical prossess I went through when I first analysed them. I can remember perfectly the story of Issac Newton figuring out gravity because It involved a logical thought prossess - and even better one with intuition and logic - but I couldn't ell you any of his laws of motion because I can't remember the prossess of figurng them out.

Absolutely yes. Especially about Fi users- my ENFP friend won't get over this girl, so I told him to delete her number from his phone so he can forget about her. Turns out she got out of the relationship with this guy he hated, and I said, "Oh, so you want to talk to her again? Too bad you don't have her number, right?" Then he goes on to recite her number from memory.

And, yes, bad memory is quite embarrassing. I've met so many people at parties at college, and even due to their intoxicated state when meeting me, they still remember my name. I think the worst cases I find is when I've told a girl something really meaningful to her then forgotten what I've said even though I still mean it. Her: "Remember what you said two days ago?" Me: "Uhh... no, but I probably still mean it." Her: (weird look)

 

[teslashock]

Hah wow this thread kind of got away from me. I posted it and then no one responded so I went to bed, but now there are like 25 posts to catch up on.

This is very true for me. If I'm exposed to something in depth and for a while, I might not know that I know it, but when it comes to recalling the details......it's quite sharp and on point.

I feel the same way. Prolonged exposure really helps with my ability to make connections between random things. The more I'm exposed to it, the more I get to think about it.

I can see the truth in this. I think it's my Ne rather than my Si that helps me remember the things that I do.

It's like everything is stored as an interconnected huge web (and the web expands and expands with each new moment lived), so if a trigger or a cue is given to me, that part of the web is activated, and there's a forcefulness to the clarity I feel when I know *I am right*. Of course, I get stuff wrong, but, I know in my gut when I'm sure of a piece of information's rightness and when I'm not that confident.

I agree with this too. I can't remember things if I can't make some kind of connection. I remember phone numbers really well because I can somehow find a relationship between each number within the series. However, I can't remember birthdays so well because I don't think of birthdays in terms of numbers. I think of them in terms of month and day, and it's hard for me to connect the two. I have 4 really good friends, and all of them have birthdays divisible by 3. If it weren't for making that connection, I wouldn't remember their birthdays for the life of me. I'd just be like, "Well, uhhh, I know your birthday is somewhere around the beginning of May..."

My memory is more "visual", as well. I can see it in my mind's eye, when I recall with a clarity, like the thing is just floating in front of me, apparent.

What I am horrible at is remembering the technical terminologies for things, but, ask me to explain it, and I'll talk up a storm (the net helps in refreshing my memory because I know what it is, just not the name, so searching the web is an easy feat for me). I am also horrible at remembering, and recalling specific events, if the cues are 'vague'. E.g., how did you celebrate your 21st birthday? My ESFx best friend can recall it given just that question, while I am left stumped...but if she starts talking about a specific thing about that birthday....then, I'm transported back there, and I can recall. My past memories thus are hazy, and takes a very specific cue to recall, unless they were impactful in some grander, meaningful way. Also, my memory is not good with linear time unless some aspect of the details makes 'logical sense' timewise. I think this is the consequence of the stuff being stored as one huge interconnected jumble, rather than sequentially.

I think its the phenomenon of the Ne web, the associations has to be stimulated and not with some arbitrary trigger for that association, but, something that engages my Ti. The association has to make sense for it to be retrieved, hence why dates and other random trivial facts escape me, unless the cue has a "hint" embedded within it. And, the hint doesn't even have to be blatant, it can be subtle, obscure, as long as it's not trivial.

QFT. Especially the bolded. I guess I just need to make more connections to enhance my trivia memory. Le sigh...

 

[miss fortune]

I can cite sources with the page number on tests given in class... I'm great when it comes to remembering things that will never benefit me in real life...

where I put the keys, what I intended to pick up at the store or if I wore that shirt yesterday (out of the clean laundry pile! ) are things that I'm at a loss for though

meaning- trivial details that are not important are no problem

anything important is lost

 

[Kasper]

trivial details that are not important are no problem

anything important is lost

That ^

I remember weird and mysterious things that are of little consequence outside a quiz with weird and mysterious questions. Stuff I should remember is hazy, what I did 5 minutes ago is a total blur, I'm too focused on the future to remember the past. To properly remember the past I need a cue like a photo or video.

Random trivia I remember because it interests me.

 

[Heart&Brain]

Yeah exactly. An Fi person will remember things based on personal feelings. Like my sis (INFP) alway talks about things we have done together from a feeling view point. Like that was fun or that annoyed me. She remembers word for word everything my mum says that makes her feel sad or annoyed because she had a strong emotional reaction to the situation.

This is actually not how I experience Ne-Fi (and by analogy Ne-Ti).

Fi is not something small-talkish like a personal memory of how 'little me' felt in this or that situation. It's as objective and rational as Ti and there's no way around its compelling, wordless force once activated. It's got nothing to do with a subjective narrative about my shifting emotions. It's a value system.

For example:
1. Both ENTP Ne+Ti and ENFP Ne+Fi remembers the historians' conclusion that peoples' lives were much more violent in previous centuries than in the 20th. We live in the peaceful times!
2. The pope laments the decrease in religious morality and links it to a (false) claim of increase in societal violence, blaming the 'secular loss of values' for the (non-existing) increase.
3. I suppose the ENTP would protest because the claim is not consistent with historical truth. Stupid, untrue stuff must be kicked out to keep the Ti-system reliably truthful in depth.
4. Using Fi, I'd get angry. The emotion of 'anger' that I feel towards holy lies is not 'personal', it's just the urgent inner alarm bell of the Fi-system making me instantly aware that something universally and objectively unacceptable is going on and I need to attend to it.
(For an ENFP this 'tending to it' could take time, getting perspective using Ne-links, streamline by Te-analysis the initial warning from Fi's complex valuesystem. And preferably add some Si-details, so I can quote that damn research paper too...!)


Falsehood is already a pain, but Fi adds a value judgement: people with this false information long for the 'good' past ruled by religious morality. Meaning they'd be pushing today's society to stop the secular progress in favor of the actual cruelty dominating the 'evil old days'. Thus, popes misrepresenting history is not only scientifically incorrect and false. It's ethically wrong and dangerous.

See? It's got little to do with my changing emotions at different moments of subjective experiences. Actually I rarely share how I feel about my own stuff, only with trusted people. Probably why it's called 'introverted' feeling...


Oops, dom Ne's changing the thread subject for once?
Sorry. Back to inferior Si....

 

[Valuable_Money]

I don't know, is he young ? entps can be sort of high on their behavior reading skills when younger, you know, before they wise the fuck up. We can also be quite rude. -coughs-
Yeah It sounds a bit like Si or maybe it's just Ti, extracting the theory and trusting it without looking at enough information. Si tends to internalize arguments of authority rather than purely rely on one's experience of things in my hum experience.
I prefer not to give an opinion without getting the data first hand or get the theory if we're talking about a closed experimental setting of sort.

He could also be an unhelathy INTP.

Unhealthy Ti values its own constructs and theoretical views of the world more than actual concrete evidence of the world.

 

[onemoretime]

He could also be an unhelathy INTP.

Unhealthy Ti values its own constructs and theoretical views of the world more than actual concrete evidence of the world.

He also could be living in a cultural environment that is not particularly conducive to Ne's possibility-raising, and thus compensates to get by (immature Fe)

 

[CJ99]

This is actually not how I experience Ne-Fi (and by analogy Ne-Ti).

Fi is not something small-talkish like a personal memory of how 'little me' felt in this or that situation. It's as objective and rational as Ti and there's no way around its compelling, wordless force once activated. It's got nothing to do with a subjective narrative about my shifting emotions. It's a value system.

For example:
1. Both ENTP Ne+Ti and ENFP Ne+Fi remembers the historians' conclusion that peoples' lives were much more violent in previous centuries than in the 20th. We live in the peaceful times!
2. The pope laments the decrease in religious morality and links it to a (false) claim of increase in societal violence, blaming the 'secular loss of values' for the (non-existing) increase.
3. I suppose the ENTP would protest because the claim is not consistent with historical truth. Stupid, untrue stuff must be kicked out to keep the Ti-system reliably truthful in depth.
4. Using Fi, I'd get angry. The emotion of 'anger' that I feel towards holy lies is not 'personal', it's just the urgent inner alarm bell of the Fi-system making me instantly aware that something universally and objectively unacceptable is going on and I need to attend to it.
(For an ENFP this 'tending to it' could take time, getting perspective using Ne-links, streamline by Te-analysis the initial warning from Fi's complex valuesystem. And preferably add some Si-details, so I can quote that damn research paper too...!)


Falsehood is already a pain, but Fi adds a value judgement: people with this false information long for the 'good' past ruled by religious morality. Meaning they'd be pushing today's society to stop the secular progress in favor of the actual cruelty dominating the 'evil old days'. Thus, popes misrepresenting history is not only scientifically incorrect and false. It's ethically wrong and dangerous.

See? It's got little to do with my changing emotions at different moments of subjective experiences. Actually I rarely share how I feel about my own stuff, only with trusted people. Probably why it's called 'introverted' feeling...


Oops, dom Ne's changing the thread subject for once?
Sorry. Back to inferior Si....

Sounds the same as Ti. What I said was just how my sister made it out to be.

 

[EcK]

He could also be an unhelathy INTP.

Unhealthy Ti values its own constructs and theoretical views of the world more than actual concrete evidence of the world.

some like to say TMI but that's bullshit, there's rarely enough information, this is one of these cases.