[NT] INTP vs ENTP. War of objectivity!

[ptgatsby]

Oooooh.... nice shot with the sniper post!
I bet you could drop a fly at 200 yards.

I didn't see it when I was flinging mud around, but reading it over it's what really needed to be said. After thinking about how I can move things towards MBTI centric (and a bit more geared around what is missing in the discussion) type posts, I realised that I perpetuated the wrong thing here - a pendulum fixes nothing.

Unfortunately, nobody could ever obey that rule, because relativist quagmires like this one would also happen in regards to what "aptitude" is.

It is literally stated in the handbook and is a major cornerstone of the ethics in typing. It is one of the fundamental guards against stereotyping and pre-judging people.

(Aptitude to mean "specific ability" rather than a generalised ability, like IQ.)

 

[Athenian200]

Oh, while I'm refraining from posting in this thread, I thought one thing should be mentioned... it is decidedly against MBTI, Jung and whatever personal version is being referenced to use traits, functions and their derivatives as a measurement of ability or aptitude.

You call it "against the concept/personal vision," I call it creativity. We came up with the measurement idea ourselves, after all.

It isn't really limiting individuals to say that one type or the other tends to be a certain way, because it's implicit in that that there are exceptions to the generalization. Besides, what good is the theory it if it can't be used to tell you anything about a person's tendencies?

It is literally stated in the handbook and is a major cornerstone of the ethics in typing. It is one of the fundamental guards against stereotyping and pre-judging people.

We never took the hippocratic oath, so we aren't bound by that.

It's just one person's idea of ethics, and not everyone has to follow it.

 

[substitute]

I've even entertained the thought that Fe can be used objectively. Someone may be particularly fair in interpersonal relations. He/she would not favour one person over the other on subjective basis and then claim the opposite.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at much earlier, about how Fe can be used to objectively take into account others' feelings, it doesn't mean you're always obsessed with your own and using them as a guide.

In fact, look at Captain Archer on Enterprise - I think he's ENFJ, and I see him using Fe like that an lot. Admittedly he's fictional, but a believable character... believable for a reason

And well said athenian and Magic P - you saved me from saying those same things, amongst other things I'd have regretted

 

[ptgatsby]

It isn't really limiting individuals to say that one type or the other tends to be a certain way, because it's implicit in that that there are exceptions to the generalization. Besides, what good is the theory it if it can't be used to tell you anything about a person's tendencies?

Bold words are what the system is for. Tendency <> ability.

(ie: E-TJ tend to want to be leaders. E-TJ do not make good leaders as a result of that.)

We never took the hippocratic oath, so we aren't bound by that.

It's just one person's idea of ethics, and not everyone has to follow it.

It's a collective agreement bound inside the instrument. It is based upon a great deal of ethical background and it exists in some form as a standard for all psychological tests. The question as to if you are moral and willing to follow the guidelines when applying their system is, of course, your choice.

 

[substitute]

The question as to if you are moral and willing to follow the guidelines when applying their system is, of course, your choice.

Dude, you missed your calling.

 

[ptgatsby]

Dude, you missed your calling.

Nah, I still come up as neutral evil. I just changed it around to reflect the neutral lawful approach. (I'm fairly true to my calling )

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Objectivity is not, in my opinion, a very specific "aptitude" as you say.

 

[Hypomanic]

Okay so in terms of objectivity:

INTP > ENTP > ENTJ > INTJ

Right?

That's TiNe > NeTi > TeNi > NiTe

Also..

(ie: E-TJ tend to want to be leaders. E-TJ do not make good leaders as a result of that.)

This is true for ESTJ's not ENTJ's.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Okay so in terms of objectivity:

INTP > ENTP > ENTJ > INTJ

Right?

That's TiNe > NeTi > TeNi > NiTe

Also..

This is true for ESTJ's not ENTJ's.

I think the consensus is that this is something that we are not going to agree on.

 

[Hypomanic]

I think the consensus is that this is something that we are not going to agree on.

Perhaps, but I'm willing to accept all input.

My reasoning for that order being that P's are more objective than J's, and Ti is more objective than Te. An equally possible ordering in my mind right now is:

INTP > ENTJ > ENTP > INTJ

^Thinkers up front.

 

[Fallen]

Oh God, don't go there... you know what happened at INTPc... LOL

Serious question: what did happen there?

 

[Haphazard]

Serious question: what did happen there?

What happens in INTPc stays in INTPc.

 

[Wrath Mania]

I think either could honestly be exceedingly objective, depending on the development of their respective functions. For instance...

It would make sense at first to assume the Architect INTP is more objective. After all, the INTP is traditionally thought to be more grounded. But if an INTP doesn't develop their intuitive side efficiently, the trade off is an INTP so thoroughly lost in their logical system that they lose the human/outside half of the equation... which needs to be present in objectivity.

If you have an ENTP that has well-developed Ti and Fe, you get a character who can stay focused, use their main functions like a scanner, and evaluate the feelings of others in a very objective, but conscious manner.

 

[Fuent]

What happens in INTPc stays in INTPc.

Lame... I was hoping for story time.

 

[yenom]

I don't believe in true objectivity.

To say existence of true objectivity is to say the existence of a colorless color.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I don't believe in true objectivity.

To say existence of true objectivity is to say the existence of a colorless color.

Ever heard of the color "clear"?

 

[digesthisickness]

Lame... I was hoping for story time.

wrong.

lame = you not doing your own research as if someone else should care so much about what matters to you that it means even more to them than it does to you.

 

[Fuent]

wrong.

lame = you not doing your own research as if someone else should care so much about what matters to you that it means even more to them than it does to you.

Hey smarty pants, did you stop to think that maybe i didn't care so much?

 

[entropie]

So, what is the Objective ? xD

 

[Thursday]

INTP