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[MBTI General] Why people don't like this approach ?

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,839
I think this is the S/N devide. While SJ types plan heavily they plan more for the present. NJs plan more for the future.

Correct.


You are confusing me. Was your whole point of the thread in regard to why people dont like it when you limit their timespan of life? Or the analytical approach? Timespan is pretty definite and simple, while people not liking the analytical approach spans a much larger picture.

The backward approach to me seems like you want to help people figure out what they will accomplish in a certain time frame and you limit what they can do by the amount of time they have. Who is to say how much someone can actually accomplish in a given time frame?

The problem I see in starting with the end is you have just capped what you can accomplish.

Well my problem with people is exactly that I analize too much and I analize things in which people are are usually quite sensitive. So I keep my mouth shut most of the time and I appear as a person that is not interested in having any decent conversation with them.
 

Laurie

Was E.laur
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
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6,072
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ENFP
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7w6
I don't see creativity. So you can apply statistics to someone's life. What does that matter? Does this show some kind of intelligence to you? What's the point?
 

Kra

Black Magic Buzzard
Joined
Jun 24, 2009
Messages
912
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INTJ
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4w5
Well my problem with people is exactly that I analize too much and I analize things in which people are are usually quite sensitive. So I keep my mouth shut most of the time and I appear as a person that is not interested in having any decent conversation with them.

This sounds a bit like egotism on their part. They want you to talk to them, but both in a way they prefer, and on their preferred subject matter.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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19,839
I don't see creativity. So you can apply statistics to someone's life. What does that matter? Does this show some kind of intelligence to you? What's the point?

Well as I said in some other therad Ni can't be controled.
So this will happen whatever I want or not. However people have the tendency to ask questions. So I usually have to throw out this entire analysis from the conversation in order not to make people too uncomfortable.

Since I tend to think in a way "you get or your don't". Or to be more concrete ---> what is the percentage of what you know and understand for all the info you can get.


It is just that this can be somewhat frustrating to me since people tend to avoid objectivity. (at least this kind of objectivity)
On the other hand this way of thinking can have a creative use since things are better defined. So maybe things and time can be used batter since some people would probably be a more creative about leaving something on this worlds since time is limited. But of course transition to this mindset can be emotionally painful.

To me basicly everything comes down to self-improvment since I have nothing else / better to do. (but thats just me)
 

Stanton Moore

morose bourgeoisie
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
3,900
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INFP
Is this something you want to change?
If so...
Learn to play guitar, or paint. Maybe that will break free the log jam in your mind. In other words, if you want to expand your mind, you should probably do something that is a little more inclusive of little-used parts of your mind than just statistical analysis.

Or alternately, just don't speak and smile a bit. You won't say off-putting things, and people will be less likely to think you're a robot.:yes:
 

Laurie

Was E.laur
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6,072
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Please note: I'm actually interested so don't write me off.

So what you are saying is when you see someone you think of them as a statistic?

I don't see how self improvement would come from this. Most people realize their time is limited. My grandma is 95 but one of my uncles only lived to be 43 (by natural causes) so I could actually die any time of a heart attack.

How do you think I should improve my life by thinking of it statistically?
 

Poki

New member
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Well as I said in some other therad Ni can't be controled.

Ni can be controlled by a filter. But you need someone who doesnt mind Ni unfiltered, but also benefits from you filtering Ni with Te. Te I believe is pre-emptively controlling what triggers Ni. What if you focused it on things that cause you to get past other situations you need to sorta deaden with analyzation like you did with things like mortality?
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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Messages
19,839
Please note: I'm actually interested so don't write me off.

So what you are saying is when you see someone you think of them as a statistic?

I don't see how self improvement would come from this. Most people realize their time is limited. My grandma is 95 but one of my uncles only lived to be 43 (by natural causes) so I could actually die any time of a heart attack.

How do you think I should improve my life by thinking of it statistically?


It all depends on how you define self-improvment.
On the other hand, yes there is always uncertainty but what also matters are odds. I mean statisticly your uncle had a bad luck of being one that die a way too early. But this isn't true for most people.
But to unaswer your question : yes I don't use Fe as much as I should.


For me self-improvment is figuring out things/outcomes and using them for something. What mean that I am using fairly large amout of impersonal analysis in my daily life.

I know that this is a little bit heartless existance but I am enjoying it.
Every person has it own standars. But the problem is that mine are directly clashing with social norms.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,839
Is this something you want to change?
If so...
Learn to play guitar, or paint. Maybe that will break free the log jam in your mind. In other words, if you want to expand your mind, you should probably do something that is a little more inclusive of little-used parts of your mind than just statistical analysis.

Or alternately, just don't speak and smile a bit. You won't say off-putting things, and people will be less likely to think you're a robot.:yes:


Well guitar is a way too Se/Fi thing for me but painting is something I could try.
Actually I was thinking about trying it for some time now.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
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ENTP
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Well guitar is a way too Se/Fi thing for me but painting is something I could try.
Actually I was thinking about trying it for some time now.

If you study music theory first, playing music will seem much more NT-oriented. You just have to approach it from the standpoint of a theoretical system, and then you'll see how to apply that system in reality.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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If you study music theory first, playing music will seem much more NT-oriented. You just have to approach it from the standpoint of a theoretical system, and then you'll see how to apply that system in reality.

Maybe but I was never into music that much.
Trust me painting is much better option in my case.
 

simulatedworld

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Well music is simply too much action and sensing oriented to be something I could enjoy in free time. Nothing more.

Right, I understand. I meant that earnestly--you should suit yourself. You won't be any good at it if you don't enjoy it.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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The reason why I started this thread is because I am doing some soulsearching.


Since my birth I was never something what you can call "really emotional person". However life made sure that I lose additional warmth/innocence.

My familiy is a good example. They never did anything really wrong to me it is just that I am the only child in my entire family. What means that I am losing them one by one and it is 100% certain that I will lose my entire family with time. Basicly this is why I started investing in social skills since friendships are the only thing that that can prevent scenario in which I am left completly alone in this world. And the reason why I started to used logic from the OP is because I have to know how much time I have before I am left alone in this world. I mean if I don't find SO I will never have family again.
Basicly everybody in my family are looking at me in a way " He is the only one who will survive ". What left emotional consequences.
Plus I have years of "violent/strategic gaming" behind me.




Problem number 2 - I grow up in a country that was was scourged by war and genocide. What made me realize how much expandable people really are.
It is easy to debate questions of Ethics and existance of God and claim that we will never know that God exists or not. No matter if the the concept is somewhat ilogical.
But for me this is prettly much solved case since it is obvious that this stuff does not work. There is simply too many empirical evidance since a way too much destruction and killing has been done around me to believe in classic spiritual concepts. I mean churches got destroyed, all patients from one hospital were taken out in the field and shot, concentration camps were constructed etc. However nothing happeed to most people that did those bad thing. (if they did died iin the war)
Today many of them even have companies or work in law enforcment in the same country they were trying to destroy.
This not bad as a fact is just that this shows to me how relative everything is in this world actually is. As a Ni-dom this is simply something I can't overlook.


Problem number 3 - From the moment I am born I live under crappy governments. What resulted with a fact that I live in disfunctional environment and like everybody else I have bad education (no matter what writes on my papers)

Basicly I didn't even start to live and I am already half bankrupt. Basicly this entire global economic crisis has no real effect on me since I live like this since I was a baby. And to be honest I have concluded that entire current system will have too fall if I were to have a normal life. I simply see no alrenative.
Basicly I could say more but this is enough.



Problem number 4 - My professional scientific interest have led me too think that the world as we know it is pretty much doomed. Because of number of economical, ecological and geochemical reasons and to be honest i don't see how this can be changed.


In this thread you have the basic idea explained. The thread is not over but this is enought to get my point. There is plenty to read so who is interested be my guest.

Link





Now the question is how do I develop some idealism and I will call it "honest emotional fuzziness" or how do I become more emotonally sensitive towards people?

Any ideas ? :D
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
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In my opinion, your inferential procedure is wrong, in this specific case. Actuarial and statistical data is valid for populations, it doesn't validly predict the outcome of individuals. Its aggregation is based (usually) on the law of large numbers, thus what guarantees the correctness of the mean does not guarantee that the mean is a valid predictor of each data-point. Many of the characteristics you cite aren't Markov, thus they are not indipendent from preceeding realizations (in this case, it would be parent's and environment's characteristics), thus they cannot be predicted as-if the information up to t-1 doesn't matter.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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Messages
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In my opinion, your inferential procedure is wrong, in this specific case. Actuarial and statistical data is valid for populations, it doesn't validly predict the outcome of individuals. Its aggregation is based (usually) on the law of large numbers, thus what guarantees the correctness of the mean does not guarantee that the mean is a valid predictor of each data-point.

I know. I have expressed myself in a wrong way in some parts of the OP.


Basicly what I was saying is that 20 year-olds feel uncomfortable talking about their retirement.
 

runvardh

にゃん
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Does it make me less of an INFP if your analysis doesn't bother me? So you bell curved the generalistics of a person's probable life; anyone with the information and the desire can do that. If there's more to what you analize I can see half decent detail being useful, but not scary. I half think about this stuff all the time when it comes to my own life.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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Does it make me less of an INFP if your analysis doesn't bother me? So you bell curved the generalistics of a person's probable life; anyone with the information and the desire can do that.

Yes, everybody can. But people seem to dislike thinking on such a long run and they dislike how much they are limited in their lives. (what I am showing them)

This was actually my main point in the OP.
 

runvardh

にゃん
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Yes, everybody can. But people seem to dislike thinking on such a long run and they dislike how much they are limited in their lives. (what I am showing them)

This was actually my main point in the OP.

sorry added a bit to my post
 
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