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[INTP] Ask an INTP thread!?

Octarine

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so
My point was that a city is not merely a series of structures and services in a particular geographic region (with its associated climate).
How to put this another way... How malleable should an ideal city be to the lifestyles of its citizens? The fact is that there is feedback between the structure of a city and the lifestyle of its citizens. But the structure is still somewhat inelastic, so you also have selection effects where people who like or dislike a city will move. But this is still limited to the range of choices available (subject to citizenship, employment, family etc). What system would be used to shape the city over time based on the preferences of the citizens? (answers to this question would need to be more specific than say, constitutional democracy)
But there are other questions too: Would an ideal city have citizens with radically different lifestyles to known modern or primitive models?
 

INTPness

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My point was that a city is not merely a series of structures and services in a particular geographic region (with its associated climate).
How to put this another way... How malleable should an ideal city be to the lifestyles of its citizens? The fact is that there is feedback between the structure of a city and the lifestyle of its citizens. But the structure is still somewhat inelastic, so you also have selection effects where people who like or dislike a city will move. But this is still limited to the range of choices available (subject to citizenship, employment, family etc). What system would be used to shape the city over time based on the preferences of the citizens? (answers to this question would need to be more specific than say, constitutional democracy)
But there are other questions too: Would an ideal city have citizens with radically different lifestyles to known modern or primitive models?

I see. Your question is a little more clear now. And it's a much more complex question (or set of questions) than I originally thought. At first, I was just "toying around" with some very basic ideas of how a city might be physically constructed from scratch. But, your questions are much deeper than that.

It's likely that you've given this more thought than I have. I will say that I believe a city should be "created" by the people who live in it. I was talking to a Polish man today and he said that America is one of the most rule-based societies in the world: you can't chew gum on this side of the building, you can't walk on the grass unless it's after 9pm, you can't smoke a cigarette in this building or that building, but you can smoke over there (on Tuesday's and Thursdays), if you want to apply for a driver's license you have to fill out paperwork, stand in line for 45 minutes, take a vision test, then go stand in a different line for 30 minutes, take a written test, then wait 1 hour for someone to call your name for a road test. It just goes on and on and on and it drives you insane. I told him how much I hate that part of my own society. It's etched in my brain sometimes - so much that I often don't even think about it - I just blindly act like a robot out of habit.

Why is it like that here? Because "we" have made it that way. It's a result of a people's cumulative actions over time. Some time ago, you could smoke in public buildings. Then, someone decided they wanted to sue about that right. And so the law was changed. Then people began smoking outside the door of the buildings. Then maybe a building caught on fire from one of the cigarettes. Now there are laws that you have to be 25 feet away from the building before you can light a cigarette. It's like laws and regulations just keep accumulating higher and higher until you are so limited in what you can do, that you might as well just stay home and watch TV. I exaggerate, but we're losing some freedom in the process - freedom to be human, to light up a cigarette wherever you feel like it, to walk on the grass and laugh and play and act like a real person. But, I can't complain too much as I'm part of the society myself - so in some way I've probably helped to create it. It's a result of our cumulative actions over time. But, I guess I'm going down the "constitutional democracy" road here.

I'm a little unclear though, on the meat of your post. On one hand, I would say, "of course the people should be able to shape their own city! If they aren't going to shape it, who is? Someone from the outside?" So, I'd almost say that a city should be "totally malleable" to the lifestyles of its citizens - but cumulatively. In other words, I live in a city, but I myself cannot (and should not be able to) go outside and decide I want to reorganize the streets to my own liking and start reconstructing everything. Nor should I decide that I'll break a law because I don't like it. But, cumulatively, we as the citizens, should be able to do those things (make change). And being that it's cumulative, every individual within that society will be left wanting to some extent. No one person will have everything exactly the way he wants it, because everyone's ideal is just a little bit different. And we see that in practice every day - everyone complains at some point about something. If someone was fully content with their city, they'd never have a complaint.

But, I guess what I don't understand about your question is that you want an explanation that is more specific than a constitutional democracy. How would a people or a citizenry have any power to change or shape their environment (to fit their cumulative lifestyle) if they didn't have power or input through some sort of voting system or democracy? Or is that what you're asking? Are you basically asking if there is a better system than this that has not yet been introduced in the world?
 

knight

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can a mathematician really be terrible at balancing their checkbook?
 

knight

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what part of the brain would make use of calculus?
 

Octarine

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so
what part of the brain would make use of calculus?

The middle-frontal gyrus, Broca's area, the anterior insula (for Salience etc), pre-SMA.
The brain is more plastic than some people realize.
 
V

violaine

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Ooh, never seen this thread before, nice one.

What's an INTP like when he/she is in love? Tell me all about it please. e.g. Are there stages? I would love to know what goes on inside you lovely INTP folk when you are in love. :)
 

INTPness

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can a mathematician really be terrible at balancing their checkbook?

I'm "good" at balancing my checkbook (it's not hard), I just hate doing it. I think it's a complete waste of precious minutes of my life.
 
N

NPcomplete

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The first time I wrote a cheque (to pay rent), I got my dad to do a sample cheque for me on a piece of paper. So now when I have to write cheques, I refer to the sample otherwise I'd still not know how to write them. And yes, I don't balance chequebooks.
 

INTPness

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Ooh, never seen this thread before, nice one.

What's an INTP like when he/she is in love? Tell me all about it please. e.g. Are there stages? I would love to know what goes on inside you lovely INTP folk when you are in love. :)

For me, not really "stages" - but it is a gradual progression with key moments that sort of unlock the next door and allow things to develop a bit further. I'd liken it to having someone invite you into their home. They show you the downstairs, the kitchen, the living room, whatever. And you're enamored with what you see. Maybe after a month, you're invited to sit on the couch and watch a movie. You enjoyed it and you're intrigued. A couple months go by, maybe the person offers to show you a bit of the upstairs. You walk to the top of the stairs and you peek around the corner and look down the hallway, but the doors to the rooms are still shut. You don't have access to those rooms yet. You're curious, but it's comfortable for you to go slow, as to not get ahead of yourself. You really enjoy taking your time and letting the relationship unfold as it may. Let nature take it's course. Don't rush, don't push, don't apply pressure. Just watch, observe, interact, learn, experience. Yes, that's a nice upstairs you have (aka, "Little Red Riding Hood, what a wonderful hallway you have").

Then, some months later. "Would you like me to open up one of the upstairs doors and show you the office/guest room?" "Sure, I'd love to see it!" Then, maybe after a year or whatever, all the rooms have been opened and you've seen this person for who they really are. All of the outer layers have been peeled off, due to both people becoming comfortable with each other, and now you "really know the person". I've always said that you need to know a person for 4 seasons. What you see of them in season 1 is going to change a bit in season 2, and season 3 will be even different. By the time you get through season 4, you will have a much different (much more comprehensive and truthful) view of and experience with that person. Sometimes season 1 goes well, but season 2 and 3 just don't work. Sometimes season 1 is OK, but season 2 gets more interesting, season 3 and 4 are unbelievable and you find yourself in a vulnerable position - you're in love and there's nothing you can do about it. It's been cemented beyond your control.

A lot of people will show you a good season 1, but the more time you spend with them, you start seeing some things you know you can't live with. Not flaws - I mean, we all have flaws and we should be able to accept some of these things in people (nobody is perfect) - but like, way too much drama in their lives, huge issues that you know will continually hinder and intrude on the relationship, maybe they have some habits/personality quirks that just sort of turn you off, no chemistry, etc. Sometimes it gets better as the seasons go on, sometimes worse.

But, for me, it's a slow "unfolding" process. Each time you unfold another piece, something new is revealed/discovered. I never want to unfold it all right away. I want it to happen naturally, with time, so that both people can enjoy the process and they can both have their heads on straight (not being lost good decision making). Go ahead and go on the roller coaster ride, enjoy it, laugh, dream, get butterflies in your stomach, the whole bit, but also go at a pace that you keep your head about you and that allows you to discover the other person one small piece at a time. It's a progression. It's a nice, long stroll through the park. It's never a race.
 

INTPness

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Oh, and as for being "in love" - to me, if I've gotten through those "4 seasons" and I'm still smitten, then I'd move heaven and earth for the person at that point - so long as they remain loyal and dedicated. If they start undermining me, competing against me, arguing with me, challenging me, being difficult, dramatic, causing trust issues, nagging, chaotic, etc, then we're going to have some problems. Or if they start to change and take things for granted (start being way more demanding after they know I'm in love with them, etc.). But, if you've made it through the 4 seasons and you remain loyal, dedicated, we both look out for each other's best interests, best friends, partners in crime sort of thing, things will be lovely and I'll do everything I can to keep things fresh, vibrant, enjoyable, alive, romantic, I'll have your back in every situation, look out for your interests, etc, etc. But, I've got to go through those "4 seasons" in order to ever get to that point. It just doesn't happen in, say, 3 months. Even after 6 months, I'm thinking, "This is REALLY good!!! But, I know I'm only half way through the book. I'm only on page 200 out of 400. Just keep reading and discovering and experiencing." And one day, I finally wake up and realize that I'm in love.
 
A

Anew Leaf

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Question #47: If we want to compliment an INTP what is the best way to go about it? Ie, how can we speak their language in choosing the right thing to compliment them about, and of what duration is preferred? (I feel like Fe-users can handle/enjoy someone waxing eloquent about their awesomeness much longer than someone like me can. :))

And in the spirit of the Ask an INFP thread, here is a sacrificial equation picture for you guys.

equation7.jpg


I have no idea what it's about, but it looked pretty. :)
 

INTPness

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Question #47: If we want to compliment an INTP what is the best way to go about it? Ie, how can we speak their language in choosing the right thing to compliment them about, and of what duration is preferred? (I feel like Fe-users can handle/enjoy someone waxing eloquent about their awesomeness much longer than someone like me can. :))

And in the spirit of the Ask an INFP thread, here is a sacrificial equation picture for you guys.

equation7.jpg


I have no idea what it's about, but it looked pretty. :)

Heh. I think it's just about being real. I think individual authenticity is respected by INTP's (and true authenticity looks different for each person). On one hand not fabricating stuff and stroking egos, on the other hand saying whatever is on your mind - whether it's a short sonnet or an epic novel.

Nice math, BTW. I'm still looking it over for accuracy, but yes, it's very nice looking.
 
V

violaine

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For me, not really "stages" - but it is a gradual progression with key moments that sort of unlock the next door and allow things to develop a bit further. I'd liken it to having someone invite you into their home. They show you the downstairs, the kitchen, the living room, whatever. And you're enamored with what you see. Maybe after a month, you're invited to sit on the couch and watch a movie. You enjoyed it and you're intrigued. A couple months go by, maybe the person offers to show you a bit of the upstairs. You walk to the top of the stairs and you peek around the corner and look down the hallway, but the doors to the rooms are still shut. You don't have access to those rooms yet. You're curious, but it's comfortable for you to go slow, as to not get ahead of yourself. You really enjoy taking your time and letting the relationship unfold as it may. Let nature take it's course. Don't rush, don't push, don't apply pressure. Just watch, observe, interact, learn, experience. Yes, that's a nice upstairs you have (aka, "Little Red Riding Hood, what a wonderful hallway you have").

Then, some months later. "Would you like me to open up one of the upstairs doors and show you the office/guest room?" "Sure, I'd love to see it!" Then, maybe after a year or whatever, all the rooms have been opened and you've seen this person for who they really are. All of the outer layers have been peeled off, due to both people becoming comfortable with each other, and now you "really know the person". I've always said that you need to know a person for 4 seasons. What you see of them in season 1 is going to change a bit in season 2, and season 3 will be even different. By the time you get through season 4, you will have a much different (much more comprehensive and truthful) view of and experience with that person. Sometimes season 1 goes well, but season 2 and 3 just don't work. Sometimes season 1 is OK, but season 2 gets more interesting, season 3 and 4 are unbelievable and you find yourself in a vulnerable position - you're in love and there's nothing you can do about it. It's been cemented beyond your control.

A lot of people will show you a good season 1, but the more time you spend with them, you start seeing some things you know you can't live with. Not flaws - I mean, we all have flaws and we should be able to accept some of these things in people (nobody is perfect) - but like, way too much drama in their lives, huge issues that you know will continually hinder and intrude on the relationship, maybe they have some habits/personality quirks that just sort of turn you off, no chemistry, etc. Sometimes it gets better as the seasons go on, sometimes worse.

But, for me, it's a slow "unfolding" process. Each time you unfold another piece, something new is revealed/discovered. I never want to unfold it all right away. I want it to happen naturally, with time, so that both people can enjoy the process and they can both have their heads on straight (not being lost good decision making). Go ahead and go on the roller coaster ride, enjoy it, laugh, dream, get butterflies in your stomach, the whole bit, but also go at a pace that you keep your head about you and that allows you to discover the other person one small piece at a time. It's a progression. It's a nice, long stroll through the park. It's never a race.

Oh, and as for being "in love" - to me, if I've gotten through those "4 seasons" and I'm still smitten, then I'd move heaven and earth for the person at that point - so long as they remain loyal and dedicated. If they start undermining me, competing against me, arguing with me, challenging me, being difficult, dramatic, causing trust issues, nagging, chaotic, etc, then we're going to have some problems. Or if they start to change and take things for granted (start being way more demanding after they know I'm in love with them, etc.). But, if you've made it through the 4 seasons and you remain loyal, dedicated, we both look out for each other's best interests, best friends, partners in crime sort of thing, things will be lovely and I'll do everything I can to keep things fresh, vibrant, enjoyable, alive, romantic, I'll have your back in every situation, look out for your interests, etc, etc. But, I've got to go through those "4 seasons" in order to ever get to that point. It just doesn't happen in, say, 3 months. Even after 6 months, I'm thinking, "This is REALLY good!!! But, I know I'm only half way through the book. I'm only on page 200 out of 400. Just keep reading and discovering and experiencing." And one day, I finally wake up and realize that I'm in love.

<3 Awesome posts.

Thank you for the seasonal tour, felt like I was there. :)
 

Rasofy

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And in the spirit of the Ask an INFP thread, here is a sacrificial equation picture for you guys.
Come on, this one is too easy, send another! :laugh:
Question #47: If we want to compliment an INTP what is the best way to go about it? Ie, how can we speak their language in choosing the right thing to compliment them about, and of what duration is preferred? (I feel like Fe-users can handle/enjoy someone waxing eloquent about their awesomeness much longer than someone like me can. :))
Make sure the compliment was earned. Compliment his competence rather than his kindness (I don't really value kindness, I value reciprocity, but maybe that's just me). Minimum duration is preferred, I get tired of saying ''thank you'', ''it's nothing'' quickly. LOL
 

Xenon

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Question #47: If we want to compliment an INTP what is the best way to go about it? Ie, how can we speak their language in choosing the right thing to compliment them about, and of what duration is preferred? (I feel like Fe-users can handle/enjoy someone waxing eloquent about their awesomeness much longer than someone like me can. :))

I most like being complimented on my ideas. I like to hear that people find my thoughts or perspective interesting, or that they enjoy reading my writing. Other things I like to be complimented about include my honesty, self-awareness, humour, skill, insight....It doesn't really matter to me how it's said, as long as the compliment is about something I actually care about. It's not that I don't care about kindness, etc., but that wouldn't be in my top five sources of personal pride.

I dislike when the complimenter seems to be doing it more to make me feel good, than to express an honest opinion.
 
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