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[INTJ] General Impressions of the INTJ

Wolf

only bites when provoked
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
2,127
MBTI Type
INTJ
I don't use the tests. I type people by evaluating them and comparing which functions lines up with their behavior. I know 3 INTJs. Period.
Congratulations, you have no clue, just like the vast majority here.

On the other hand, this board is a very biased sample, dominated by intuitives. Intuitives are more likely to be related to and be friends with other intuitives. The list of such factors is very long, which might make this more plausible. Age might be a factor, intelligence might be, even other MBTI characteristics. And let's operate with 1/40 being an INTJ, and not something like 1/100.
Even with that assumption you're only looking at one in 10-15 of the members knowing any. For each claiming 2+, if true, you're doubling and tripling the number that don't know any... Again, the claims here are completely impossible.

Unless they count people they really don't know. Maybe they're like the people I have vaguely known over the years, and they're all claiming they "know an INTJ", which would be pretty comical because aside from online only one person outside my family knows me, and much of my family doesn't to begin with...
 

ptgatsby

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,476
MBTI Type
ISTP
Congratulations, you have no clue, just like the vast majority here.

I think most people remember INTJs cause... well... they stick out :rolli:

I wonder what the numbers say... oh well. Maybe I'll figure that out tomorrow.
 

Splittet

Wannabe genius
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
632
MBTI Type
INTJ
Even with that assumption you're only looking at one in 10-15 of the members knowing any.

Not at all. That would mean the average person on this board knows something like 3 persons, and that's not true ... By the way, I think INTJs maybe are easy to point out, because they are often quite "controversial" people. That might explain what Mycroft pointet out.
 

Mycroft

The elder Holmes
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
1,068
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Not at all. That would mean the average person on this board knows something like 3 persons, and that's not true ... By the way, I think INTJs maybe are easy to point out, because they are often quite "controversial" people. That might explain what Mycroft pointet out.

This kind of bolsters the view that maybe, perhaps, just possibly people are being a tad hasty in labeling socially inept introverts they meet as INTJs.

I'm not going to try and say we don't have a fair number of those within our ranks, but it's not exactly a monopoly.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
3,376
MBTI Type
ENTP
Heh I think introversion in general is what makes a person socially inept. But when an INTJ makes a gaffe, they tend to do it with flair. ;)
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,463
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w8
Impressions of the INTJ that I know...

Superior.
That attitude, which I know is not really a concious decision, has to be one of the most annoying things. Especially when you've spotted the gaping flaw in their thinking and try to casually drop the information in their lap and make as little fuss about it as possible. This is then taken as an act of war and an iron curtain drops for the rest of the evening and may spill over into future evenings.

The Damaz Kron.
The INTJ I know has an almost old wife level of grudge bearing. One small slight will be recalled to be dragged over again and again until victory is achieved. Always seems strange to me that a supposed NT can hold on to such things for so long. Most often I've forgotten about it all when I rise the next morning.

Competition.
Okay most of the time this INTJ will not be drawn out into competition...not until victory is assured. I'm thinking that Sun Tzu was an INTJ and the whole thing with making women fight is a perfect example of the problems which can manifest in this type of person.

There is a cold front moving in from the west.
I'm not sure why it is but the whole struggle to maintain a cold exterior and generally cut anyone dead who tries to approach further than their assigned holding pattern is very chilling to me. God knows how more sensitive people deal with him.

Oh and this whole thing is made doubly worse by skipping between the whole warm ESFP thing and then the INTJ shield of cold rolled steel. Batfink has nothing on this guy.

One shot, one kill.
If I were to vote a type most likely to become an assassin then I think that INTJs would be top of the list. It's uncomfortable being held at arms length and it's even more uncomfortable when the internal random selector target me and I find myself the focus of all the criticism for the evening.

-------------------

Personally I watched House and thought "At last a true role model for the budding INTJ".
 

ps646566

New member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
32
MBTI Type
INTJ
Sorry, but I have to say...




Bullshit.

I am no optimist, but I am so tired of hearing that.
Realism is simply about taking things for what they are. Pessimism and cynicism are no more accurate than being an optmist or a gullible chuckle-head.

You can easily be unrealistically cynical, my friend.


...That's also totally the kind of thing an INTJ would say.


It is indeed possible to be unrealistically cynical. But as an INTJ I can only be realistically cynical. On the rare occasions that I get it wrong I adjust my view and stance accordingly.

I don't know whether "Bullshit" as an opening comment within a sensible discussion is totally the kind of thing that an INTP would say. Any views on that ?
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
It is indeed possible to be unrealistically cynical. But as an INTJ I can only be realistically cynical. On the rare occasions that I get it wrong I adjust my view and stance accordingly.

I don't know whether "Bullshit" as an opening comment within a sensible discussion is totally the kind of thing that an INTP would say. Any views on that ?

It actually wasn't the opening, I had very polite introduction to it. :D

But for you to say that you can't be unrealistic?
I think you need a chip knocked of your shoulder. :whistling:
 

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
4,755
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5/8
I think most people remember INTJs cause... well... they stick out :rolli:

I wonder what the numbers say... oh well. Maybe I'll figure that out tomorrow.

I would agree with the (implicit) direction of this statement.
 

ptgatsby

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,476
MBTI Type
ISTP
I would agree with the (implicit) direction of this statement.



Well, the way I see it, the rough way of seeing the numbers would be (I make no statement to the accuracy of this, I'm just typing it out as I think of it).

total people in family tree = 1st gen + 2nd gen + 3rd gen (...)

Where 1st gen = 1, x gen = 2.3^x

With (1st to last-1) * 2.

With probability being 3% of the population being INTJ, with 0.97^(number of people in tree) not knowing of an INTJ.

Probability of knowing an INTJ in your family;

1st gen = 2 = 6%
2nd gen = 2+2.3 = 4.3 = 12%
3rd gen = 2+2.3*2+2.3^2 = 11.89 = 30%
4th gen = 2+2.3*2+2.3^2*2+2.3^3= 29.347 = 59%

Since I didn't build this in excel for quick calcs, I won't work out adding a circle of friends, work and so forth. I did look up birth statistics and we are actually below 2.3, although with the timeframe we are talking about, it's probably fairly safe - it has gone up and down over 40-80 years! And of course, if you are seeing anyone, it is far more likely to know someone as a result of the two families... Anyone who goes to university has a much higher chance of knowing an INTJ as well... and if you are younger...

I'd give myself a 95% chance odd (well, higher, but around there) of not knowing an INTJ with a headcount of my family, friends and department at work - I know two, so nothing errant there. Taking on an extra 4-5 friends, maybe a couple of their SOs, maybe a few people at work - well, I'd say the majority of the population will know an INTJ (or be one themselves).
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,988
To add to pt's thought....

People generally know a lot of people. Think about your classmates, relatives, co-worker, x's, etc. that you have known in your life. In fact, how many people do you interact with on a regular basis? I personally have weekly interactions with well over 50 people right now.

The chance of having a particuar person you know be an INTJ is represented by a Bernoulli distribution which then means (assumng independence) that probability of k out of n people you know being a random variable is represented by a a Binomial Random Variable.


You would then just sum up k*prob(k out of n being INTJ) for all k from 0 to n to get the expected number of INTJs you know. Incidently, the result of that is the very common sense answer of n*p, where n is the number of people you know and p the probability of a particular person being an INTJ.

The probability of knowing exactly k INTJs out of n people is then n_Choose_k*p^k*(1-p)^(n-k).

If you want to know the probability of knowing 1 or more INTJs, then you simply add up prob(k out of n being INTJ) for all k from 1 to n. Or, more easily, subtracting prob(0 out of n being INTJ) from 1.

Let's say you know a 50 people and that the probability of a particular person you know being INTJ is 0.03, and that the probability of any one person you know, being INTJ is independent of any of the others being INTJs.

Then you would expect to know 1.5 INTJs on average. Right now I know 3 people who I suspect could be INTJs, one I am fairly certain is an ISTJ instead.

Also, the probability of knowing at least 1 INTJ is 1-prob(knowing 0 INTJs), which is then 1-(0.7)^50=approx. 1-1.8e-8, which almost nearly 1. So the real rarity would be to find someone who knew 50 people but didn't know an INTJ.

If you are in an NT skewed environment, like college or in an INTJ skewed environent like IT, then you are likely to know more.

When I think about peope you've known in the past, that number will go up. When I think about my high-school Math team, and the local chess club, the number could be high indeed.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4,517
MBTI Type
ENTP
Congratulations, you have no clue, just like the vast majority here.

...

or...

you have no clue. I'm really not trying to justify it. Especially not to you now. I wouldn't have even spoken up except that you were wrong. I wouldn't have made that sentence except that you made it personal.

I look forward to many arguments with you in the future, as I'm sure they're to ensue because of such a silly disagreement. As if you would really know who I spend my time with. For the record, I seek out intuitives, and avoid sensors, because they usually have no idea what I'm talking about. Actually, IS's are ok, because they don't tell me to shut up and stop talking about random shit.

Anyway, I think INs put a little bit too much faith in your supposed rarity. Granted, they're far less common than any other subtype, but that still doesn't make them so infrequent that I might have come across a few of them in my life.

Huh... I guess I am trying to justify it.
 

ptgatsby

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,476
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ISTP
Also, the probability of knowing at least 1 INTJ is 1-prob(knowing 0 INTJs), which is then 1-(0.7)^50=approx. 1-1.8e-8, which almost nearly 1. So the real rarity would be to find someone who knew 50 people but didn't know an INTJ.

Hmm, why 1-(0.7)^50 ? I didn't follow that part :D (I believe it should be 1-(0.97)^50... or roughly around 80% of people will know an INTJ.
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,988
Hmm, why 1-(0.7)^50 ? I didn't follow that part :D (I believe it should be 1-(0.97)^50... or roughly around 80% of people will know an INTJ.

Yup. That should teach me to do math in public.

But still. More people would know an INTJ than not.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
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1w2
Judging from the last few posts, I don't know whether to rate this thread 1 star or 5. :confused:

I know four INTJs, one of them I met last week. INTJs tend to give off the INJ vibey-thing that if you know what you're looking for it's not difficult to detect. It's more in how they talk about things than behavior. The ones I know aren't socially handicapped and are fun to be around.
 

hotmale

New member
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
232
MBTI Type
ESTJ
All INTJs I've met were men. I don't think I've known a single INTJ woman which is kind of odd.

If they hadn't taken the long version MBTI test at work, I would've never guessed they all had the same personality.

However, one INTJ that stands out in my mind was very cheap and had an odd tendency to impose on all his friends and then would brag about it. Another INTJ, I think was the opposite- very generous with his time and well-travelled, extremely thoughtful and considerate of the people around him. They all even looked very different- but most liked to plan ahead and always had a constant flurry of activity, and things they liked to do in their spare time. The generous INTJ (who also happened to be the best co-worker) would go just about crazy if he had to sit home for two hours. He always liked being on the go. Since he got a transfer to Chicago, I lost my best buddy!
 

ptgatsby

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,476
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ISTP
Yup. That should teach me to do math in public.

But still. More people would know an INTJ than not.

:D Just double checking. Either way, the point remains the same, agreed.

You'd actually be pretty close if everyone was a science majoring university, for example (somewhere close to 20%)... so there are huge swings depending on locality.

And not to go all non-PC, but there is a "class" issue here as well (INTJs are very much over represented at the higher end of jobs, etc). I'd hazard a guess that an upper-management INTJ is more likely to know of another INTJ more than just one INFJ or INFP. Likewise, anyone working in average corporate america even at a middle-manager level is vastly more likely to know an INTJ (starts at 10% and goes up to 16%, only slightly less than sciences in Uni).

I accounted for the rough approximation given the 2.3 population size, but realistically about 75% to 90% of anyone who is working or going to school should know an INTJ, even at the 2nd/3rd gen + work + friends level.
 

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
4,755
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5/8
Well, the way I see it, the rough way of seeing the numbers would be (I make no statement to the accuracy of this, I'm just typing it out as I think of it).

total people in family tree = 1st gen + 2nd gen + 3rd gen (...)

Where 1st gen = 1, x gen = 2.3^x

With (1st to last-1) * 2.

With probability being 3% of the population being INTJ, with 0.97^(number of people in tree) not knowing of an INTJ.

Probability of knowing an INTJ in your family;

1st gen = 2 = 6%
2nd gen = 2+2.3 = 4.3 = 12%
3rd gen = 2+2.3*2+2.3^2 = 11.89 = 30%
4th gen = 2+2.3*2+2.3^2*2+2.3^3= 29.347 = 59%

Since I didn't build this in excel for quick calcs, I won't work out adding a circle of friends, work and so forth. I did look up birth statistics and we are actually below 2.3, although with the timeframe we are talking about, it's probably fairly safe - it has gone up and down over 40-80 years! And of course, if you are seeing anyone, it is far more likely to know someone as a result of the two families... Anyone who goes to university has a much higher chance of knowing an INTJ as well... and if you are younger...

I'd give myself a 95% chance odd (well, higher, but around there) of not knowing an INTJ with a headcount of my family, friends and department at work - I know two, so nothing errant there. Taking on an extra 4-5 friends, maybe a couple of their SOs, maybe a few people at work - well, I'd say the majority of the population will know an INTJ (or be one themselves).


Thank you for taking the time to write this up.

You take into account probability on the basis of general statistical enumeration (whereas one has a fundamentally-equal chance of meeting x as he does y) and develop this premise into social and genetic contexts with institutional variability as the spinal column.

I like this.

I would actually suggest this general principle be converted into a sticky. I'm not sure as to administrative process (perhaps a model already exists?), but I think this conversion model is an important piece of documentation for everyone to consider.

I think it would be valuable to produce a general template for each MBTI. Not necessarily to elevate, but to articulate encounter rate into a scale that aptly captures frequency and distribution probability.

Does anyone else agree/disagree?
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4,517
MBTI Type
ENTP
Thank you for taking the time to write this up.

You take into account probability on the basis of general statistical enumeration (whereas one has a fundamentally-equal chance of meeting x as he does y) and develop this premise into social and genetic contexts with institutional variability as the spinal column.

I like this.

I would actually suggest this general principle be converted into a sticky. I'm not sure as to administrative process (perhaps a model already exists?), but I think this conversion model is an important piece of documentation for everyone to consider.

I think it would be valuable to produce a general template for each MBTI. Not necessarily to elevate, but to articulate encounter rate into a scale that aptly captures frequency and distribution probability.

Does anyone else agree/disagree?

What purpose would such a collection of data serve?
 
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