[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Ti and the social world

[Risen]

I've been alive for 20 years. I am an INTP, and thus, my strongest function is Ti. I have encountered many things in my life, and found myself in many different types of social situations. I'm quite confident I have explored nearly the full limitations and potential of Ti. Through having the MBTI system revealed to me, I have made great strides in the past couple of years in terms of personal growth and understanding (of myself and others). Recently I have fully come to terms with one simple truth: Ti is vastly limited in usefulness for personal social situations. On its own, it is just not equipped to deal with the variability, ambiguity, and emotional/irrational aspects that come to play in our interpersonal relationships. Its tendency towards inner analysis is far too inefficient to be of use in the present, or to actually hash out solutions and clear understanding of others through post-situational analysis. While the combination of Ti and perceiving functions like Ne can yield some great insights, these "insights" are, in fact, not things that can be regularly applied and are thus not very useful in the personal world. This form of thinking and analysis is wholly unfit and fruitless when one wishes to simply enjoy interacting with people and relating to people in "normal" ways.

No, the limited ability of Ti and Ne to pick apart what little can be objectively observed about the people around you, and all the blind spots filled in through intuitive extrapolation and personal experiential information that fits the pattern (Si), makes for a combination that is most wieldly in the world of social manipulation. The level of understanding that one can cultivate about others through these functions is not simply for standing idly in the flow of life's waters, to enjoy experience with other people for the sake of experiencing, not to empathize with others and display true compassion, or to move about the world taking in whatever our base desires call for. No, the true purpose of this cognitive unit is to ascribe algorithmic function to human behavior, and to manipulate and control it as we see fit within ourselves and in others. That is Ti's only social utility as a leading cognitive function, with the aid of Ne and Si.

And even when this arrangement has been able to map out the schematics comprising the makeup of the social creature's thoughts and behavior, it is still unable to very well utilize the knowledge and control other human beings skillfully. For mastery of the final act, extroverted judgment is needed in addition to high empathetic understanding to peer into the hidden core behind human behavior, their feelings and emotions. What is needed is Fe. A development of Fe equal in maturity, but subservient, to Ti. An unholy partnership between two forms of judgment that will finally fulfill their true purpose, to rise and take everything in their wake until all is in its rightful place.

*End babbling*

 

[Matthew_Z]

And yet, that one source says that INTPs are most likely to marry their own type.

 

[Risen]

And yet, that one source says that INTPs are most likely to marry their own type.

Are we now? Never heard that before.

 

[Matthew_Z]

I'll see if I can dig up the link. Wish I bookmarked it.

 

[Yossarian]

Additional research, led by Nancy Marioles, PhD. at St. Mary’s University, provides important data on marriage patterns among the types.

* Some types are more likely to marry a person of their same type; this includes male INFPs, INFJs and INTPs and female ENFJs and INFJs.

Link: PersonalityDesk - Resources - Compatibility and Your Myers-Briggs

 

[Mad Hatter]

Despite being an INFP (though I'm currently in the process of re-evaluating that; in any case the T/F opposition is rather weak), I'll add my 0.02. I think the lack of extroverted "social" functions applies to either.

I've been alive for 20 years. I am an INTP, and thus, my strongest function is Ti. I have encountered many things in my life, and found myself in many different types of social situations. I'm quite confident I have explored nearly the full limitations and potential of Ti. Through having the MBTI system revealed to me, I have made great strides in the past couple of years in terms of personal growth and understanding (of myself and others). Recently I have fully come to terms with one simple truth: Ti is vastly limited in usefulness for personal social situations. On its own, it is just not equipped to deal with the variability, ambiguity, and emotional/irrational aspects that come to play in our interpersonal relationships. Its tendency towards inner analysis is far too inefficient to be of use in the present, or to actually hash out solutions and clear understanding of others through post-situational analysis.

I think that describes it fairly accurately. Often when I'm in a social situation that requires an immediate response, I'm simply overwhelmed by processing all the information (however limited it might be) that flows in and shut down. It's like all the people in a burning building are trying to go for the exit and jam the door. Building burns down, people are dead - the prototypical esprit de l'escalier.
Concerning Si, there is this vast field of individuality. Conclusions drawn for experience with another person might simply not work with another one, though one keeps applying the same pattern over and over again with different persons. Experiencing that they don't work does not make it any better, fwiw - it rather makes you persist in the patterns you have adopted, such as avoidance and withdrawal.
Concerning the blind spots: I'm fairly reluctant to draw conclusions with what I perceive as insufficient data - and considering the functions I have, that informational input is rather a trickle than a torrent.

In any case however, I think that human interaction is fascinating for all its complexity.
Interesting post

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Good thread; very informative. I'd like to hear more from INTPs and what effect Ti has on social interaction for them.

ETA: Thanks, Jock. My guardian angel.

 

[Matthew_Z]

I always imagined Ti as being a sense of "fairness" in the area of relationships. Combined with a bit of Fe, it leads to a nice system of mutual reciprocity. Ti doesn't need to be purely formal logic. In the context of relationships, Ti can use any sort of sensible and reasonable approach to evaluate a situation. Ti is a function of using systems. Logic is one such system. All Ti needs to have more utility is a little recalibration to a different arena. Clarify, systematize, and evaluate.

 

[Heinel]

I always imagined Ti as being a sense of "fairness" in the area of relationships. Combined with a bit of Fe, it leads to a nice system of mutual reciprocity. Ti doesn't need to be purely formal logic. In the context of relationships, Ti can use any sort of sensible and reasonable approach to evaluate a situation. Ti is a function of using systems. Logic is one such system. All Ti needs to have more utility is a little recalibration to a different arena. Clarify, systematize, and evaluate.

So, how do you use Ti and Fe together at once? Or, even switching between the two at will?

 

[Matthew_Z]

So, how do you use Ti and Fe together at once? Or, even switching between the two at will?

They have a dual, complementary nature. Fe extraverts in some direction and Ti focuses on and analyzes (although, as some have pointed out, you can't spell analyze without anal) and interprets the outside experience. Either element would naturally retreat into its own realm and not consider input from the other, causing imbalance. Together, you can think of them together as constantly in a game of stepping forward and backwards. Master how to balance them perfectly, and you can dance.

(forgive the use of second person above)

 

[Heinel]

They have a dual, complementary nature. Fe extraverts in some direction and Ti focuses on and analyzes (although, as some have pointed out, you can't spell analyze without anal) and interprets the outside experience. Either element would naturally retreat into its own realm and not consider input from the other, causing imbalance. Together, you can think of them together as constantly in a game of stepping forward and backwards. Master how to balance them perfectly, and you can dance.

(forgive the use of second person above)

Okay, I guess that sounded more possible. Though I think one would need a set of procedures that can be used to direct and reshape Fe.

 

[Matthew_Z]

Okay, I guess that sounded more possible. Though I think one would need a set of procedures that can be used to direct and reshape Fe.

You're perfectly free to expand. We wouldn't want things biased to my personal brands of Ti and Fe.

 

[Heinel]

You're perfectly free to expand. We wouldn't want things biased to my personal brands of Ti and Fe.

Well, I really am not sure how one could have Ti and Fe run concurrently. The only way I can see it happening is if you switch between the two for each decision. One problem I have with Fe is that I can get carried away, so there has to be some way to restrain it when it gets out of hand... That's the biggest problem for me, anyway.

 

[Risen]

Well, I really am not sure how one could have Ti and Fe run concurrently. The only way I can see it happening is if you switch between the two for each decision. One problem I have with Fe is that I can get carried away, so there has to be some way to restrain it when it gets out of hand... That's the biggest problem for me, anyway.

Hence why I said "A development of Fe equal in maturity, but subservient, to Ti." Fe is needed in the same capacity as Ti, but Ti must remain king. And I'm quite sure you can switch between cognitive functions in much the same way you can switch moods. It's a pattern of thought that comprises the cognitive functions. Thought patterns can be changed, on the fly. It just requires a type of feedback and learning.

 

[entropie]

I've been alive for 20 years.

I love that opening, but I have never seen someone using it before.

I didnt read the rest, but I meant no disrespect, I am just beyond 8 beer bottles and writing is more fun thatn reading.

Just wanted to say, whatever you said in that long text, the pervert entp got your back

 

[Cypocalypse]

Basic social advice an ESFJ told me once--keep things light. I hope most here would get a sense of epiphany from that. Lol!

 

[Eruca]

Basic social advice an ESFJ told me once--keep things light. I hope most here would get a sense of epiphany from that. Lol!

I was aware of this fact already.

It's most depressing. I wish I could enjoy small talk, as it must be such a relaxing form of entertainment.

OP's post was enjoyable to read. I often think along the same lines. Some people seem to love me, others seem to find me dull. I have mastered the "interested listener" approach, but that doesnt help when the other person is boring or reserved. The difficulty seems to be communicating my interests to draw other people in.

 

[onemoretime]

I was aware of this fact already.

It's most depressing. I wish I could enjoy small talk, as it must be such a relaxing form of entertainment.

That's why xNTPs tend to get funnier as they get older - making humor out of small talk is really the only way we keep engaged in the conversation.

 

[Grungemouse]

That's why xNTPs tend to get funnier as they get older - making humor out of small talk is really the only way we keep engaged in the conversation.

That holds truth for me now. If I have nothing relevant to add to the conversation but feel obligued in keeping with the small talk, I just point out a comical observation. Next task for me: Learn how to engage in small talk without resorting to stupid jokes - it can soon become tiresome.

 

[onemoretime]

That holds truth for me now. If I have nothing relevant to add to the conversation but feel obligued in keeping with the small talk, I just point out a comical observation. Next task for me: Learn how to engage in small talk without resorting to stupid jokes - it can soon become tiresome.

Hate to say it, but I don't think that's ever going to happen. It's just too draining on our psychological energy stores. Still, if jokes are tiresome, "what if" questions make a perfectly valid substitute. You just have to make sure they're not too off the wall