Getting to know the person might not even be the intention. It might be something as simple as keeping a straight face and maintaining the facade of engagement and sufficient interest to get through the uncomfortable period and return to wherever is safe. In my experience, feeling disconnected from a conversation can feel very unsafe, because speaking might be demanded of me at some point, and I might say the wrong thing (never a case of not knowing what to say in the first place; instead, that's a mental block placed by the anxiety). It creates this incredible internal tension: the extroverted part of you wants to interact with people and learn things about them, but there's also the part that maintains anxiety because the world, and people, seem dangerous in that I never knew when they were going to flip on me, or when something I did unknowingly and without intent would set other people off, and potentially make them not like me.
Wait, this looks familiar...thats the NeSi relationship that we have as well. That typical fear and the thousands of what ifs that go through your head as you try and make sense of a group of people and the way you are 'supposed' to act, without getting torn to shreds. And the pull and push you feel to connect with others, yet not get slammed. (though that connecting is perhaps more Fi)
Yes. It is a way of reassuring myself that I am still in control, that I am still smarter than the other person, and that they know not to mess around with me.
I never knew that ENTPs were so powerdriven. I mean...the Ne sort of..hides that fact coz it makes them look playful. But from this Id say you are almost more driven than NTJs
It's when the person starts fooling around in the banter just as much as I do, and starts to get all silly with it. For example, one of my friends and I might latch onto a random subject, and sort of have a "contest" to see who can go "too far" with it, or who can make the other person more uncomfortable. It's fun because you get to push each other's boundaries, and learn about them that way. In Enneagram terms, it is a manifestation of the sexual instinct, as the other partner shapes your response as you shape his or hers.
Yess, this I also recognise. I play by the same rules, but a different game! You push it too far to make the other uncomfortable. So..you aim to straddle the perfect line between one upping them, and calling their bluff and hurting their feelings? To show how not vulnerable you are? And for that matter, reinforce the walls afterwards? Kind of like physical sparring...
I play that same game with Fi. I get too close too intimately on purpose, and see if the other will accept my dare to do the same. The first one to blush or flush and withdraw loses. Emotional boundaries and how much emotional intensity you can handle basically, mixed with a game of 'chicken'. It can be incredibly fun when you trigger blissful emotions in each other. I guess with you, the pay off is feeling intelligent and powerful? Outsmarting as such? Isnt that a win-lose situation though? Someone always has got to lose? Or is it possible to reach that perfect balance of status quo and feel powerful still?
Im not quite sure as to how you cause the other, in your game, to feel uncomfortable. Id be interested to see the mechanics
It is. I went years where I did not stop thinking unless I was drunk or passed out from exhaustion.
It was. Imagine living in what appears from the outside as a quiet, nice neighborhood, but never feeling psychologically safe at home (we've discussed this before). There is no one you can talk to about this, nor would you ever bring it up to someone outside, because look around at how comfortable an upbringing you have, and there are billions who would be overjoyed to live as you do, in middle class America. You can't trust your feelings, because they are telling you that there's something terribly wrong, but you've got no way to calm yourself or escape. Safer to just suppress them. You haven't lived in a particularly physically violent house, but you've seen the rage in their eyes. There's no telling when the next shoe might drop. The cultural messages (it was the '90s) were mindless consumerism, paranoia and sarcastic disaffection, and these often seem like the only escape. You want to rebel, but are afraid of the consequences, so you settle for passive aggression. You want to escape, but are afraid you can't hack it in a dangerous and scary world. No matter what you do, deep down inside, you never feel safe, and it doesn't seem like there is anyone who could possibly understand. Life is a Hobbesian war of all against all.
Oh hon..yeah, that sounds terribly lonely, almost like growing up in a war-zone. And actually somewhat familiar as well. I just escaped into fantasy worlds though, daydreams, fiction, tv...anything to get me to experience intense blissfull emotions and get me out of reality
Clarity and honesty do help. What Orobas said in the other thread about pointing out that there are other people being hurt by your actions also tends to work well. When I'm in a grumpy mood, I might not care that the target is being hurt by what I have to say, but if there's collateral damage, that can break the cycle of anger. At the same time, this is also a case where others are not responsible for my emotions. If I am that upset it is in a way because I want to be that upset, and I don't want to relax at that moment. This suggests the final tactic before disengaging: point out that the person's acting like a child, and specifically illustrate how so. The evidence makes it difficult to argue, and can redirect the attacking energy within.
Well..my experience teaches me actually that showing that you are hurting me, and being clear about that, as well as asking them to stop seems to work like blood on a shark. They perceive it as weakness and push even harder to make the kill. This is irl experience, mind you. One of the entps I know has matured a bit, but I can tell that when I do plead with him to stop, he gets aggrevated, and it costs him an incredible amount of energy to transform that energy into detachment and the ability to 'laugh it away' as to respect my request. The other...well..from what I can pick up, I think it is the mere sight of 'vulnerability' that seems to piss him off and make him incredibly scared. Like seeing my vulnerability makes his suddenly clear for the entire world to see as well, and he cant help but try and destroy that, to hide it from the world.
The only way Ive found to stop the latter was to overload his system emotionally by putting a mirror in front of him and his vulnerabilities and basically...shred him to pieces before he shreds me to pieces. Not one of my finer moments and not something I wanna do ever again.
Ive seen this on forums as well, where entps, especially when there is a crowd watching, will go in for the kill, ignoring pleas to stop, almost encouraged by them in fact, perhaps due to fear of being perceived as weak? I dunno..Ive also seen where the crowd cheers them on and they go for the kill to entertain the crowd and feed their own ego.
in private, and once you get some rapport going with them, I find that your suggestion is very much valid, though it will cause them frustration and awkwardness to witness my vulnerability and having to stop at all, when they were just getting started, I find. And it always somewhat makes them retreat behind their walls again..presumably for my own protection?
Mmm..or do you mean collateral damage as in...bigger picture damage? Group damage as such? Calling you on the fact that you are breaching Fe-protocol?
Aka 'you are making a scene', 'You are better than this'?