[ENTJ] Interaction advice for ENTJ

[Ghost of the dead horse]

So, your complaints about the ENTJs finally got through. At least for me. I'm seeking to improve my interaction in communication, which is perhaps marked by some xNTJ-like habits.

I'm noticing that although I communicate well on technical grounds, customer service, technical subjects etc, I approach communication too much as a situation-dependent task, and I'm often secretly thinking that the communication is primarily driven by me. I'd say, I think that my wish is to have most of my communications 55-60% driven by me, and 40-45% by the other person. At least I'll know where they'll be heading.

That is, I communicate to get something done, to get entertained, to help someone, to transmit information, to lighten up someone's mood, etc.

I'm not all that interactive in my written communication, but I'm a bit more declarative. It's not like two streams of information are meeting. It's rather that chunks of information are being carried from one place to another, examined and replied to. I think my interaction in written communication is acceptable, and not much more on average. Sometimes OK, rarely good.

Reasons might include technical stuff, like writing long posts. Reasons might include things with my attitude - which are fine for many things, but not perhaps interaction in written communication. Perhaps so, perhaps not.

My interaction in spoken communication is best with one INTJ and one ExxP. Meaning, it's natural, and not business-like, and we enjoy it. With them, communication seems like it carries on from situation to another. For many people, I almost feel like each situation in communication were independent of the others. That is, almost as if I forgot the people in between.

As said, I've got no trouble in my communication in business or in technical subjects.

Perhaps I just give standard courtesy to many people. I behave well, but I don't try to think about the people's best interests after I've talked with them. When the discussion is over, I think my own stuff, and I think they should think about their own stuff, too.

Perhaps one thing is that I've developed my opinions over time. If I've decided that opinion/course of action/path X is good for me, and I'm now selecting between X1, X2 and X3, I am mostly open to choices X1, X2 and X3, only. Not to choice Y, not to W, not to Z.

A long post.

So, how would you help this ENTJ?

Questions?

 

[Amargith]

I get that you do this when you're 'on a mission'. And, in that case, it would probably help to consider the people (no pun intended) 'tools' or 'obstacles'. What does that mean? Basically, in order to complete your plan, you need to get passed them or, they can even be helpful to fulfill your plan provided you use them properly. There's no point in using scissors to bang a nail in. Same deal with people who are obstacles. Running into that wall time and time again untill it gives is highly inefficient, especially if there's a door you can use. However...using that door and applying that tool properly ask that you pause for an instant and think about how you will be dealing with the obstacle/tool, before you apply it and rush through it. Aka..patience. It also requires that you have some basic knowledge as to how it works, and if you don't, that you figure it out. Aka...take an interest in the basics of the tool/obstacle, as to how it works. I can tell you straight up that with people you'll find most manuals include 'good-will', 'a smile', 'a little understanding and patience'. So put those in your basekit already.

Then, as for social interactions. This is where you give your problemsolving skills when it comes to doing things a break. Take a holiday, chill, there's nothing to be done or gained or accomplished, but if you need a goal, consider having one just for fun, and not have 'efficiency' as your main priority. And that can be quite fun. Focus on the people this time, and what you have to offer to each other. Exchange...trade, and let it happen naturally. That means: you might have something interesting to say, so share it, but don't hold a monologue, let them interject their thoughts. And that way, you might actually enrich your own perspective. Or, you might want to know something they could know, and therefore, in order to engage the conversation, you'd want to ask this in a warm way, as you're the one asking and you want to encourage goodwill. Then also 'listen' to what they say, even if they go deeper than you need them to go. You never know what fun details might be included as a bonus. Be openminded that although your goal or vision might be right for you, it's always interesting to explore other options to. Maybe not to consider, but just to know they're there. Lastly, when you meet an interesting person, take an interest. They might just take an interest back. Do the quid pro quo thing. They share something small about themselves, and you do the same back. Build it up to more serious things, and interject some banter, to make clear that you're not the inquisition. Take your time. Savour this process of getting to know each other, it can be quite exhilirating and fun. The goal will still be there, and you'll progress steadily.


That's all I can think of right now. Hope this helps!

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

There's one point that struck me the most, patience. I guess I try to make people understand & talk their stuff faster, as in, I wish they would start talking something relevant and stop talking after they've made their point and I've heard enough to reply. That is, when the topic isn't interesting.

Perhaps I should take into account that people are processing their own thoughts when they talk beyond what's needed. If I ignore or interrupt that, I'm disrupting their processes, and making their communication seem unwanted. Perhaps that is why my communication is best with the said ExxP and the INTJ who are, in my opinion, the most interesting people I know.

I talk too much, too, so I'll try now to listen to people longer than I'm comfortable at first.. perhaps it'll end up interesting.

 

[Xander]

Ignoring part of what someone says is perfectly acceptable but not having the patience to wait for them to finish or the manners to make it less than transparent that you've stopped listening isn't.

As for speaking/ writing. Try and include why you think the way you do. Don't just declare the answer as some great truth because you said so.

 

[JustHer]

Try and include why you think the way you do. Don't just declare the answer as some great truth because you said so.

This one's really important, especially for ENTJs. We instinctively come up with a solution to a problem as it presents itself while others are in the process of understanding/interpreting/analyzing it and considering possibilities. Then we either get frustrated that people don't seem to value our solution, or have THEM get frustrated thinking we are not putting any thought into what we are saying and are being arrogant.

I also think Ni users just need to learn to express their Ni-obtained information in a very thorough/detailed way. To us this stuff comes instinctively (duh, its our Ni) and we tend to assume other people are on the same page, but often that is really not the case.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Today I travelled on an empty subway, and a guy in his 30s sat in front of me. He asked if he could talk with me. I nodded.

So, he was away from the jail for his 11th day. His apartment was gone. He had somehow got evicted, and he was pissed. So I chatted with him, shared a can of beer, and I ended up to know a few things about him. His psychological problems, a piece he was having under his jacket, incidents with his robberies and stuff like that.

He pondered between killing or beating someone up to get into jail. Well, I listened without intervening too much. So, it was my stop, time to leave the sub, but I stayed. I wanted to talk to this guy. I put an empty beer can in my pocket, and he didn't believe I had a home. I didn't argue much about that.

I complained that I didn't have the cash to buy any of his stolen beer. He didn't even try to sell me his drugs, either. I mentioned a possibility to get an apartment, but he had already tried my method. So, in the end he thought of calling the cops and arrange himself a place to sleep. All good in the end.

I didn't stay to see what happened after I left tho. The man was smoking and drinking in a non-smoking/drinking area, and I saw some 5 security people walking in. Probably not much of a problem, not too much to be of much interest.

I took it as a listening exercise.

Nice that you recommended it!

 

[BlackCat]

^That's very interesting Santtu.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

It was interesting to chat with him! He mellowed down during the talk, quitting his plan to kill people or anything like that. I didn't even have to convince him for that.

I guess listening has that power.

 

[corey_vann]

I can definitely relate. I'm excelent at dispensing information or asking questions to get to the bottom of an issue, but I suck at (and hate) chit-chat. I never really know what to talk about. Without a clear objective I am useless. Conversations with my mother often go as you described, with her talking entirely too much after her point has been made (or worse, repeating the same point over and over and over and over). I got fired from my last job. I was a call-center operator at a certain jewelry and gemstome home shopping network (a job where every strength I have was counted as a weakness). My supervisor told me the nail in my coffin was when I told a customer the information she was giving me was unnecessary. I'm still learning

 

[Xander]

That's the weird thing about talking to my father (an ENTJ). Being an INTP I tend to select those who I consider most capable in different situations and use them as like an expert and he is my expert for calming my brain. If I've got too much going on in life for me to be able to formulate a plan of action which does stress me out but gets the job done then I talk to him. Most often what he's got to say isn't what helps, I can usually predict him, but it's his certain calmness. Almost as if the resistance which the world exerts has no effect on him. A quality I attribute to his capacity to go through the walls that people put up to slow progress, his ENTJ qualities.

 

[Luqmanux]

This was quite interesting to me; and I chucked it up to people mentioning needless detail ..

To me; I like to say what is relevant and stop; nevertheless, I do talk a lot of what I believe is relevant on a specific topic with an objective in mind; that's pretty clear when I tell a story, It's really interesting how much detail are not mentioned that might for some people -especially Sensing- be a bit outstanding .

I'll make use of what you learned; and my tactic is always to count to 20 when I feel I'm about to interrupt some one .. unless this conversation has no value and I have something else to do .

The main thing I worked on is patience and effective listening; and now I feel there is some improvement !

 

[Tamske]

Be blunt and honest!

Really. I mean it. I don't like to second-guess people. I'm always relieved if people are tactless. To me, that means two things:
1) I don't have to sugarcoat my opinions myself, which takes away a lot of stress.
2) I don't have to search meaning behind your words. If you give a compliment to me, I can be sure it's a sincere one and I'll value it like a treasure. If I did something wrong, I can be sure you'll tell me. Makes life much easier.

Of course, this comes from a fellow NT...

 

[Xander]

Oh that reminds me, speak your damn mind. No not the filtered stuff which you discern the other person can handle but the whole ball of wax. Especially when you're dealing with someone who has shown repeatedly that they do understand the information and can understand your point.

Trust me, if you think you're impatient try it from the side that's waiting for you to filter out the perceived irrelevancies.... BORED!

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Thanks Xander. I wish nothing more than the opportunity to speak my damn mind. That was golden.

Today was another special opportunity to speak with a special person in a special occasion. This time it wasn't a convicted person on a subway. But.

That's another story.

 

[LadyJaye]

It was good for you to listen to the man on the subway. You should be proud that you listened to your instincts to stay and talk with him. Their are many troubled people in the world these days, who are desperate to just feel like their lives matter for even a minute. Good for you.

I would like to interject, if it's relevant, that I appreciate the ENTJ's in my life because they are able to give me calm and rational feedback in situations where I feel out of control or oppressed. I can tell they are listening to me completely, taking in everything I'm saying, and then reflect back to me an answer that is both reasonable and encouraging. My best friend is an ENTJ - what I love about her is how intently she listens to me, and how much she can still recall of conversations we've had even years later, because I'm important to her, and that's how she shows it.

 

[vence1234]

Hello Brothers

I too had same problem. It took me quite a lot of time to figure out why ENTJs speak like they do.

1) World of people are organised into a hierarchy in their minds. So very few people are worth listening to.
2) They are on a mission. So listening to everyone is waste of time as it would result in delays and confusions to other members.
3) They think 'I am in charge of the situation'. Its better you let me handle it and not discuss/argue adding to chaos.
4) They think that listening to the problem not backed by action is futile and rush to act.

I had to become more and more comfortable with disorder. I had to overcome this urge to immediately bring order and enquire about what led to it.

I had to accept that mere sight of others happiness/satisfaction is a reward in itself and no better way to give it free than by listening to experiences of others. I can relate this to our friend's interaction in a subway.

But it appears to be true with our colleagues/classmates too. They need a patient listener to share their experiences which are of same intensity as that of subway guy.

Listening to people who seek our help and guidance is not weakness.

You may think you know their problems. But recognize that they do not believe that you understand their problem unless you listen to them completely.

My 2 cents bro. To summarize. If you want to help someone/bring order to a situation, listen to him/them first.