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[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Ni + Te = WTF?!?!?!

BlackCat

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Let's see, Ni looks to the future and checks for all possible alternate outcomes. It sees many, many different ways of looking at things and perspectives. Te naturally makes things efficient and wants to make the decision that makes the most sense. So Ni would look at all possible outcomes and perspectives, and with Te the NTJ would decide on what would be the most logical outcome to strive for, or the most efficient result; with the differing perspectives aiding the process along the way.
 

Metamorphosis

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Ni is what we are. Te is how we express it so that you can understand it.

Ni is infinity. Te is a figure eight turned on it's side.
 

the state i am in

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i think one of the key differences between Ni and Ne is the past. in I functions the past is stored, in E functions the past is discarded and the present is merely process. I functions have way more landmarks and far fewer instincts, there's way more pausing, way more checking and double-checking, way more contemplating. E processes have way more experimenting. I functions are organized learning, E processes are honing instincts.

Te creates objectives. it is a geometric proof. goal. sub-goal. sub-goal. what do i need to establish. what would be required to accomplish this. how can i prove this. what will be needed for implementation. intj is brilliant for its Ni insights, and then having the methods/dedication to make them happen.

intp is brilliant bc it invents new ideas and new stories/histories/chains of causal cognitive technology. entp is just pure crazy and tricks the system of thinking into changing.
 

JustHer

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but to have your primary or secondary intuition harnessed, or limited by an extroverted thinking function is just strange and counter-intuitive to me.

I think you are confused when you say "limited by extraverted thinking" seeing as how Te is the function that actually MAKES something tangible out of your intuition.

Te gives you the ability to carry out your Ni vision and make it a reality.

How the hell is that limiting???
 

the state i am in

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I think you are confused when you say "limited by extraverted thinking" seeing as how Te is the function that actually MAKES something tangible out of your intuition.

Te gives you the ability to carry out your Ni vision and make it a reality.

How the hell is that limiting???

rather than re-inforcing and justifying itself via tertiary trap, it is using the actual concrete material limitations of the situation to consider implementation. this is balanced function usage and psychological health.

but it is a limit, it provides the other end of the rope, creates tension and a stable platform to balance your internal and your external pressure, desires, etc. many of us don't want to let go of our desires and hopes and dreams, get the reality-check, and balance our introversion and extroverted scope. or vice versa for especially for eps (vs ijs). it works similarly for ips and ejs, but i don't quite understand the differences for dominant judgers.

i think this idea is the basic gist of the lenore thomson book many people on here like as a model for basic function development/unfolding/to be a balanced psychological system and process information without creating huge gigantic blind spots.
 

JustHer

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many of us don't want to let go of our desires and hopes and dreams, get the reality-check, and balance our introversion and extroverted scope. or vice versa for especially for eps (vs ijs).

It is definitely different for INTJs and ENTJs, but she did ask about both primary and secondary intuition, so my reply was about ENTJs.

As someone who is focused on the external world rather than internal, I think that my Ni is just wasted potential if nothing can be made of it. Applying Ni onto something is a way of making Ni real. So what I think I mean is that even though I am limiting Ni in my internal world with Te, I am creating it and making it real in the external world, which for me is more of "the real world" since I am an extravert.
 

the state i am in

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It is definitely different for INTJs and ENTJs, but she did ask about both primary and secondary intuition, so my reply was about ENTJs.

As someone who is focused on the external world rather than internal, I think that my Ni is just wasted potential if nothing can be made of it. Applying Ni onto something is a way of making Ni real. So what I think I mean is that even though I am limiting Ni in my internal world with Te, I am creating it and making it real in the external world, which for me is more of "the real world" since I am an extravert.

agreed. they have a different balance, but the idea that they will become balanced for both types is what is at stake. entj will always prefer action over contemplation, whereas most intjs will like to take their time to consider. but without strong auxilary, the first function doesnt refine itself or develop accuracy. the internal and external pressure doesn't equalize.
 

SillySapienne

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Ni is what we are. Te is how we express it so that you can understand it.

Ni is infinity. Te is a figure eight turned on it's side.
I like this.

i think one of the key differences between Ni and Ne is the past. in I functions the past is stored, in E functions the past is discarded and the present is merely process. I functions have way more landmarks and far fewer instincts, there's way more pausing, way more checking and double-checking, way more contemplating. E processes have way more experimenting. I functions are organized learning, E processes are honing instincts.

Te creates objectives. it is a geometric proof. goal. sub-goal. sub-goal. what do i need to establish. what would be required to accomplish this. how can i prove this. what will be needed for implementation. intj is brilliant for its Ni insights, and then having the methods/dedication to make them happen.

intp is brilliant bc it invents new ideas and new stories/histories/chains of causal cognitive technology. entp is just pure crazy and tricks the system of thinking into changing.
I like this, too.

:)
 

SillySapienne

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Kk, question.

How affiliated is Te with mathematical skillz?!!?!

Even though my Te is tertiary, I've always had mathematical skills, also...

Geometry, and solving geometrical proofs was like... :unsure: delciously fun for me to do!!!

It's this Ni function that I find most peculiar.

I value my ability to have the capacity to *grasp* most things/ideas/concepts.

But Ni, is like.... wtf?!!??

Ne and Fi for me is just, I dunno, *knowing* things deep inside, as I am being objected to them, simultaneously.

And, especially with regards to people.

Also, Ne is like seeing/feeling/making/understanding all the seemingly disparate connections between two "separate" things.

Nothing is "separate", in fact, everything is connected.

:)
 

Matthew_Z

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One need not use to Te to be satisfied by any sort of "proof." (proof, as it applies beyond a merely formal mathematical sense) Getting one step closer to certainty absolute is a wonderful and sobering experience, regardless of function used.

I'm not too much of an Ni user, but I'll give you my impressions of Ni+Te:

Ni is a function of vision. It sees angles. It can conceptualize all angles at once. It sees an unseen reality. Te follows this vision and makes visible what was previously unseen. In INTJs, it need to expand the vision as much as it need accomplish it. In other words, Ni gives Te a destination which Te reaches in the most efficient way possible. In a Te>Ni situation, more emphasis is paid on reaching the goal that realizing it, but both functions still keep their respective roles.

Relative to Ti+Ne, Ni+Te doesn't need to fill in any "gaps" of this vision. Ni has already conceptualized all of the pertinent components. Even with Ni as the dominant function, the Ni/Te combination stresses action. (although not necessarily in a strictly physical sense)
 

SillySapienne

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" Ni has already conceptualized all of the pertinent components"

Expound on this, preeze.

:)
 

Matthew_Z

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" Ni has already conceptualized all of the pertinent components"

Expound on this, preeze.

:)

Ni does not desire to get bogged down with details. It selects the ones most important to realizing its vision. Once it finds all the routes necessary to reach the goal, it doesn't bother with the thought of "in retrospect, this also works," which Ni is inclined to find arbitrary.

To stereotype, the Ni(+Te) villain isn't going to ponder "hmm... I've spent do much time trying to kill you. It wouldn't be the same if you were gone." The Ni villain is simply going to finish the plan.
 

SillySapienne

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So their visions are intrinsically founded without any help from experience and observation?!?!?
 

Matthew_Z

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So their visions are intrinsically founded without any help from experience and observation?!?!?

It's not without experience and observation as much as it is with MINIMAL experience and observation. Once Ni has seen enough, it acts.
 

SillySapienne

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It's not without experience and observation as much as it is with MINIMAL experience and observation. Once Ni has seen enough, it acts.
Hmm, the same could be said for Ne, except we don't act, as much as ask.

:)
 

Kalach

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Pertinent components.

Something about boobs.


That's Ni.
 

SillySapienne

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B>>bs being the Se you're always talking about, I presume.

Perhaps Ni is the lube for the Te, or vice versa.
 

Kalach

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You asked if the visions were founded without experience or observation. This would be a literal impossibility. The visions arrive from day one and compound with the experience of day two, and then day three, and so on, until we reach approximately day 29,200 and die. Se being weak or not, it has been inputting information from the beginning, along with books, experiences, tests, accidents and so forth. It is like any introverted function, and not like any extroverted function, it acquires depth and perception as it ages. It has access to the entire world in there.


And before too much more irritating is said, Ne is meant to work on Si. Si having a very clear and detailed picture of what was, will become hidebound and moribund without someone to suggest that sometimes there are new ways to do something or even that there may be--horror!--new things to see. For Ni, it's Se that tells it something new, not about possibility, because it already knows that, but about reality, what's there right now.

And that's (I think, a big part of) why INTJs are pragmatists. Because we have almost no ability to care directly about the past. The past will appear as warnings in Ni perspectives on the future, but not as particularly efficacious memories themselves. I wonder sometimes if this is really true because it's a little scary, but there it is.
 

Andy

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Kk, question.

How affiliated is Te with mathematical skillz?!!?!

Even though my Te is tertiary, I've always had mathematical skills, also...

Geometry, and solving geometrical proofs was like... :unsure: delciously fun for me to do!!!

It's this Ni function that I find most peculiar.

I value my ability to have the capacity to *grasp* most things/ideas/concepts.

But Ni, is like.... wtf?!!??

Ne and Fi for me is just, I dunno, *knowing* things deep inside, as I am being objected to them, simultaneously.

And, especially with regards to people.

Also, Ne is like seeing/feeling/making/understanding all the seemingly disparate connections between two "separate" things.

Nothing is "separate", in fact, everything is connected.

:)


Attribute functions are not skills. They provide driving forces to act/think in a particular way, and it is these behaviour paterns that result in skills developing. However, under the right circumstances an attribute function can lead to the development of a skill not normally associated with it.

I'll give an example. An INTP followed the call of his Ti and became a theoretical mathematician. Later he has an INFP daughter. Their prime functions, Ti and Fi are mutually opposed to each other, so the two of them rearly see eye to eye, leading to poor relations between them as she get older. However the daughters Fi function is telling her that she would rather get along with her father. To bridge the gap she tries to take an interest in his work, so they will have something to talk about. This leads to her having a talent for mathematics, but the driving force was Fi, not Ti or Te!

Te can lead to development of maths skills, as they often help to get the job done, but it could just as well result in a talent for public speaking, sign language or anything else it thinks is required to get the job done.

If you enjoyed matha, it was probably because it appealed to your Ne function. Many mathematical problems can be solved easily by going about them in the right way, but finding that way requires imagination. Every step in a proof is logical - except the first one, because knowing where to start is more a feat of intuition than anything else.
 
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