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[INTJ] INTJ's and Love

Erica

New member
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
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10
MBTI Type
Entj
Do INTJ men say I love you to women who are JUST friends? My Intj guy friend and I got in a big fight over something fairly silly which involved another girl he had relations with. He got really upset about the whole thing and how I perceived him based on what I found out. We were emailing back and forth when one of his emails came back saying "I love you and you have always been a good friend in the past....." The weird part is that he italicized the I love you in the email to make sure to emphasize it. He spent the whole email saying he cared what I thought of him. He has never said something like that before and we aren't the type of friends to drop meaningless words. I don't know if I should acknowledge the I love you or not. It puts me in a weird position. Do INTJ men say I love you to close friends or is this something more? We have been friends for years now and there has been some tension on and off, but I thought we were jsut friends.
 

Gewitter27

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5w4
INTJs are like INTPs in that they say what they mean.
 

Spamtar

Ghost Monkey Soul
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However if you misinterpret it thats your fault. ;)

Nevertheless in this instance....he probably thinks he loves you or is extremely fond of you.
 

Erica

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Nov 5, 2009
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Entj
Ok fair enough. That is the vibe I get since he has never ever said anything like this before. It is strange to me to just throw it out there in the middle of his fight for my friendship. Why would he just slip it in there? Why wouldn't he say it in a better way if he likes me as more than friends? I mean this is the worst possible way to tell someone that information. Why wouldn't he tell me sooner? Why has he dated my friends all the while still being close friends with me? I don't get any of it.
 

Kalach

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Ok fair enough. That is the vibe I get since he has never ever said anything like this before. It is strange to me to just throw it out there in the middle of his fight for my friendship. Why would he just slip it in there? Why wouldn't he say it in a better way if he likes me as more than friends? I mean this is the worst possible way to tell someone that information. Why wouldn't he tell me sooner? Why has he dated my friends all the while still being close friends with me? I don't get any of it.

Ahem... hmmm...

No, I got nothing. This is an INTJ you're talking about.


Fi is the relief function. To make things seem better or feel right, an INTJ will sometimes blurt out feeling statements. It gets more pronounced as they age. It's supposed to provide renewal and energy in that the other person gets comfortable or flattered or happy and everyone is on the same page about feelings and therefore the foundation of everything that happens next is trustworthy. It works best on people who appreciate that kind of gawky, awkward, sentimental crap and can get an idea of what it really means and work with it. Which is to say, it doesn't work very well on ENTJs. (And, surprisingly enough, INTJs seem to know this intuitively, but without knowing why, and frequently without paying attention to it. The whole "will it work" thing falls apart with "I love you" statements.)

INTJs do that kind of thing more when they're drunk and writing emails, or when they're so fed up with not knowing what foundation applies for the next move that they'll just step up and try to say what's true.
 

Erica

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Nov 5, 2009
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Entj
Kalach first thanks for your input, but I am slightly confused by your response. Do you think he said it just to smooth the waters? Or is it because he is trying to smooth the waters but can't help but blurt out what he feels?

It's not necessarily that those sentiments don't work with Entjs but that we look for authenticity from square one and we have high expectations. Throwing out an I love you as your walking by isn't enough; you have to shout it from the top of a mountain to get our attention enough to let our own guard down.

I think I'm going to ignore it... but why the hell did he have to italicize it. That's what makes me feel like I need to acknowledge it in some way.
 

Spamtar

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^ yup with what Kalach said .
Their expression of Fi can be inartful yet if it seems awkward it is most likely genuine.
I would advise you to simply take it as a complement and continue on for awhile on autopilot friendship. Most likely he will appreciate this and reward you in little ways for the consideration.
Trust me, when you look back compare it to slick but ingenious declarations...you will see it much more fondly in retrospect.

P.S. the good thing is that you don't have to acknowlege it. He broke the rules and he knows it. Nevertheless it can be handy to be able to look into someones heart without needing to acknowlege it, and with impunity.
 

Kalach

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Kalach first thanks for your input, but I am slightly confused by your response. Do you think he said it just to smooth the waters? Or is it because he is trying to smooth the waters but can't help but blurt out what he feels?

An INTJ?

He's not a feeler. His attention isn't focused on developing and understanding subtleties of feeling. And it surely isn't focused on subtleties of expression. He could produce a poem, or a candlelit dinner, or a walk in the park with a flowery speech, but he won't because he doesn't trust or understand his feeling well enough to handle complex expressions without help. That is, he won't try big flowery displays nor complex expressions because he won't find them authentic. It's not that the feeling isn't there, it's that he doesn't know much about the details of expressing it clearly. Same for any TJ, you included, right? Especially if the TJ is supposed to initiate the display.

So, you know what you need and he can't do it very well, and he knows what he needs and you can't do it very well for him. It's going to be a blast!


Or to put it in really simple terms, obviously he italicized the phrase to emphasize it, and he did it because emphasized text counts as one of the few things he knows he can do to express the depth of his feeling. He can italicize text! It's a beautiful thing. Don't you agree?

But what is the depth and breadth of his feeling? Who knows. But making a feeling statement is committing to a path. He's coming out of the closet as an ENTJ admirer. And just as he has hung you out to dry on the question of "What is this feeling really?", so too are you hanging him out to dry on the question of "What is *your* feeling?" He won't know. You won't know. Happiness awaits.
 

Erica

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Haha. Ok point taken. I just don't know how we got to this position. I know he was initially interested when we first met at work, because he would flirt and make comments. Then we started to get closer and closer from there. It seems like the closer we got the further he seemed emotionally in some ways. I guess I do/did expect too much. Sometimes I think men are scared of confronting entjs.... maybe this is his backwards door way of doing it. But he picked a strange time to do it.
 

SWINTJ

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Feb 22, 2009
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I don't even say that to family members. That phrase doesn't slip for me. It holds a great deal of weight and I don't toss it around, not even playfully. If I wanted to say I cared greatly, I'd say exactly that.

The fact he stressed it in text and didn't take his opportunity to backspace it, factoring in he probably re-read it a couple times...

Chances are it's not inspired by a "just a friend" mindset.

But, since some friends do say such things like they're no big deal, it leaves an opening to gauge the depth of a close friend's possible interest in something more, or even get it off their chest in an odd way.

If you react badly, he can just say it was "as a friend only" to retain some of his dignity. All the while probably mentally kicking himself.

If that is the case, then your confusion means it was at least a partial success. Think of it as an emotional contingency plan. He was vague enough to adapt safely to any reaction it gets from you.

It's hard to say for sure for a very good reason. He probably made it a point to word it so nobody but him would be truly sure of what he meant.

That might seem overly complicated but, if he puts as much weight behind those words as I do, a little plan like that is far from out of the question. My certainty completely falters in that realm of communication. I would be pulling out almost all of the cautious stops.

Note how I haven't even typed the phrase I'm referring to.

Though if he was under the influence of something, it's best ignored.
 

Kalach

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Haha. Ok point taken. I just don't know how we got to this position. I know he was initially interested when we first met at work, because he would flirt and make comments. Then we started to get closer and closer from there. It seems like the closer we got the further he seemed emotionally in some ways. I guess I do/did expect too much. Sometimes I think men are scared of confronting entjs.... maybe this is his backwards door way of doing it. But he picked a strange time to do it.

I recall from my days of wooing an ENTJ much the same thing. You guys are very attractive and face to face two things go on inside the INTJ--or did for me. On the one hand, this woman is attractive (physically, but also with the similarity of strengths) so I want to make a connection. And on the other hand, I know intuitively that something is out of place and it's a big, big risk to get that feeling out there because once the statement is out there, it's going to hang there alone. That last part is what intuition kept warning me: that some convoluted expression of feeling is needed to handle both expressing the feeling and expressing the intuitive expectation that the feeling isn't going to be heeded.

That whole thing where people see NTJs as unfeeling and steamroller-like? We see each other that way too. At least, it seems that way when it comes to intimate relationships, I guess.
 

Erica

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What you all are saying makes sense. I will probably regret this later but here is his entire email in context.

If you want to talk about this then we can, if you don't that's fine. I love you Erica and you have always been a good friend in the past, but if you insist on telling me that I used someone, when you aren't even fully aware of what went on....if you really think that little of me.....and refuse to accept anything I say....then it really hurts my feelings and would prefer to not be your friend at all. I hope that does not happen, but if it does then there is nothing I can do about it. I have already tried to explain that both Amber and I had talked about all of this before it happened. I in no way used her and to think that you would say that to me makes me want to cry. When i try to defend myself you say I am only doing it to keep anyone else from knowing.......if you really want to then tell anyone you want, that is not what this is about and I think you know that. My main concern is what YOU are thinking about me, not them. I do not like you or anyone else thinking that I would ever use a girl. That's what hurts the most to me. With all the conversations I have had with you about women, you of all people should know that's not true.

I just felt like you all needed the full picture.. at least some of it. This was copy/paste.

I hide my feelings well or try to; I don't know why it never occured to me that other NTJ's especially men would want to do the same thing. So what does it take for a girl to coerce them out?
 

Kalach

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Man, that's complex.

Well, all I can say is, he's expecting you to know what it means when he makes a feeling statement. No one's gonna know how to handle this without an NFP bodyguard.
 

ceecee

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But he picked a strange time to do it.

We're definitely not known for great timing and the blurting out thing...true. Then we're like..oh fuck what did I just say?? That doesn't make what we're blurting about out feelings untrue but once it's spoken we have to talk about it. This guy is hoping to god that you know what it means. It's in your court now.
 

Spamtar

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^or you could have a little FUN with this misunderstanding/backpeddling game. Lemons into lemonade I always say. But then again you all are Js and more interested in the substance than the process. Tch tch tch....:rolleyes2:
 

MonkeyGrass

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I agree that the blurting is likely real, and that it's due to seeking relief from Fi. However, in my experience of INTJs, when thinking is back in control and they're "sober", so to speak, it may be two or three steps back from that sentiment, until they feel they can adequately explain and rationalize the feeling and it's implications.

I've found they often blurt painfully vulnerable things about themselves or really pointed, deep criticisms of others in the moment, too, to try to gain the advantage in a conversation where they're out of their emotionall depth. They might feel guilty about it later, and really embarassed that they showed their hand to that extent, to the point of avoiding the subject for a while.
 

Kra

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I, personally, am hesitant to say "I love you" to anyone. It makes me cringe a bit. If I ever say it, you better believe it's true, as it's apparently strong enough to fight it's way past both Te and Ni, and even an odd bit of Ti.
 

Kalach

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At some point however we'll all get used to the idea that we can't just come right out and say "I love you" because we're all blocked and confused and whatnot, and we'll know we're that type that blurts out stuff and yet doesn't blurt out stuff, and around about then we'll just start saying it because we can.

I mean, it's not like we're trapped into a lifetime of never being able to express feelings, right?

So if the guy in this story is in his 20s, maybe early 30s, then he'll be Mister Awkward Blurtinator. If he's older, then like anyone I guess, he'll probably have a bit more self possession.

We mellow, don't we?
 
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