[MBTI General] Which type gives you more cause to be afraid: the ENTJ or the INFJ

[Billy]

Well, even compared to some INFJs on this site who don't especially come across as "warm and fuzzy" (but are in fact some of my favorite members on this site) you still don't use much Fe at all. However, apparently it is not impossible for an INFJ to run mainly on Ni/Ti.

I'd be interested to find what other people think of your type, in general. Just out of curiousity.

I posted a few things in the NF blog section under my little thread there, you might get some insight into my head on there if you are interested. I would be curious to know what you thought.

 

[Billy]

Plus, in terms of my Fe, I tend to be protective of it. INFJs are known to go nuts in time because of Fe and the harshness of the world as such as it is.

 

[Thalassa]

Dude.. you just said you don't want anything sugar coated then complain about me not using my Fe enough... Do you see where I am coming from with INFPs? This is always the case I have to watch HOW I say things as not to savage their delicate sensibilities. I could say the exact same things in different ways and you wouldn't be the wiser for it.

But its like I said, we are on an anonymous forum where I don't have to see how my bluntness hurts your feelings, if we were sitting down somewhere having this conversation and I could read you in person I assure you I would come across entirely different. Because my Fe would start kicking in and saying things to me like "stop being a prick you're hurting her feelings". Alas, we are anonymous and online so I don't think that will have much a chance of happening.

You aren't hurting my feelings. Your attitude on a variety of subjects just seems arrogant, rather in the NT fashion, and it's not the type of polite, pleasant-seeming, well-mannered arrogance that some Fe users I've observed employ.

 

[Thalassa]

Plus, in terms of my Fe, I tend to be protective of it. INFJs are known to go nuts in time because of Fe and the harshness of the world as such as it is.

That sounds like Fi.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

it's not the type of polite, pleasant-seeming, well-mannered arrogance that some Fe users I've observed employ.

Nope, Billy's arrogance has BALLS.

 

[Billy]

That sounds like Fi.

Its not, because it doesn't focus for me inward, it focuses on me trying to do the right thing for the people around me and being burned for it consistently.

 

[Thalassa]

Nope, Billy's arrogance has BALLS.

Yes, and that's typically how ENTJs think, not INFJs. That was simply my observation.

 

[Billy]

Yes, and that's typically how ENTJs think, not INFJs. That was simply my observation.

How do you know that though? I already told you, INFJs put up a facade for the people we interact with.

my friend Chris who is an INFJ once told me:

"People should love INFJs because we generate a custom user experience tailored to you personally when we interact with you based on what we read in you. If you need softness we give you softness, if you need to be talked down to, we talk down to you. But we aren't doing it because its what you want, we do it because its what we think you need."

And its true.

And since this is a thread that is rapidly becoming about me I am going to go ahead and post this link: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nf-blogs/23194-infj-case-study.html I dont think its fair for people to walk into this thread and see the things you are saying and form an opinion about me based on what you are incorrectly seeing.

 

[Thalassa]

How do you know that though? I already told you, INFJs put up a facade for the people we interact with.

my friend Chris who is an INFJ once told me:

"People should love INFJs because we generate a custom user experience tailored to you personally when we interact with you based on what we read in you. If you need softness we give you softness, if you need to be talked down to, we talk down to you. But we aren't doing it because its what you want, we do it because its what we think you need."

And its true.

And since this is a thread that is rapidly becoming about me I am going to go ahead and post this link: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nf-blogs/23194-infj-case-study.html I dont think its fair for people to walk into this thread and see the things you are saying and form an opinion about me based on what you are incorrectly seeing.

You don't think it's fair for people to form an opinion about you based upon what I'm saying? Why would they do that? I formed my opinion of you based on posts you made yourself, and any one with any sense would do likewise. I don't know anyone on this forum that would just blindly agree with me just to be doing it.

 

[the state i am in]

i'm going isfj 3w4.

i still get Fe, but it's unhealthy Fe that can only see one side of any equation. no Ni whatsoever. reading the blog shows attempts at strong self-assertion, resiliency, fighting back after feeling picked on. very Fe, just undeveloped and unaware of how to balance itself properly. the internal and external pressure is way off.

i think the stories are mostly well-written, but they lack self-awareness. they're too much focused on their own e3 image control, and unaware of the cheese of tangerine lip gloss (from an infj perspective). it's an obvious mistyping.

i'm sure entjs line up armies of isfj cronies when they need help on a scheme to fuck over their neighbors.

 

[Billy]

You don't think it's fair for people to form an opinion about you based upon what I'm saying? Why would they do that? I formed my opinion of you based on posts you made yourself, and any one with any sense would do likewise. I don't know anyone on this forum that would just blindly agree with me just to be doing it.

No, you formed an opinion based on your feelings, not for what I was saying. Our 1st real interaction was you telling me I was arrogant for talking about how much I pay in taxes. When I wasn't being arrogant, I was making a larger point in regards to the topic we talked of.

And pretending people don't see what someone says then assimilate it into a bias is absurd, because lots of people do that. Its sort of why women are called "catty" isn't it?

 

[Billy]

i'm going isfj 3w4.

i still get Fe, but it's unhealthy Fe that can only see one side of any equation. no Ni whatsoever. reading the blog shows attempts at strong self-assertion, resiliency, fighting back after feeling picked on. very Fe, just undeveloped and unaware of how to balance itself properly. the internal and external pressure is way off.

i think the stories are mostly well-written, but they lack self-awareness. they're too much focused on their own e3 image control, and unaware of the cheese of tangerine lip gloss (from an infj perspective). it's an obvious mistyping.

i'm sure entjs line up armies of isfj cronies when they need help on a scheme to fuck over their neighbors.

So you are saying I am Si dominant? ha ha ha.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I'd be interested to find what other people think of your type, in general. Just out of curiousity.

Part of Fe is soaking up the etiquette specific to the type of people in your environment, not always acting according to an inner concrete set of etiquette rules.

If/when I’m in a situation with NT types long enough to become acclimated to the way they behave towards each other; I’ll almost invariably begin to behave that way myself.

I think it’s the empathy. I pick up on how much directness I can get away with. And in situations where I can get away with being incredibly direct without hurting feelings, I’ll be incredibly direct.

This is just speculation from my own experience, but I’ve been in situations where I’ve been perceived as confrontational; and it’s usually because I’m accustomed to dealing with one type of person and it takes time for me to ‘soak up’ the new rules for this other type.

Granted, I usually hold off on engaging in dialogue until I’ve become acclimated to a given situation. But something I’ve noticed (being relatively new to dialogue in an online forum) is that it’s much more difficult to read people over the internet. It is for me anyway. And I have little doubt that I also come across as more arrogant and/or confrontational online than I do IRL.

Marmalaide: I kind of had similar thoughts after reading a couple of his posts in other threads. I can see how his attitude is coming across as being too coarse for that of an INFJ. But- for what it’s worth- once I read something about him having an ENTJ as a mentor (?) earlier in this thread, his attitude kind of made sense to me.

And in regard to the op, I really don’t think one type ultimately has more potential to be scary than the other (at least between the choice of ENTJ or INFJ). I think it depends entirely upon the individual.

 

[Thalassa]

No, you formed an opinion based on your feelings, not for what I was saying. Our 1st real interaction was you telling me I was arrogant for talking about how much I pay in taxes. When I wasn't being arrogant, I was making a larger point in regards to the topic we talked of.

And pretending people don't see what someone says then assimilate it into a bias is absurd, because lots of people do that. Its sort of why women are called "catty" isn't it?

First, you said "you're welcome non-tax payers" in regards to health care reform, and my reply was that it was arrogant to assume that the people who will benefit aren't employed full-time, or paying taxes, or working just as hard as you do. You flippantly replied that you pay as much in taxes as some working class families make in a year, which seems arrogant to brag that you have that much to give away considering the topic at hand. You further compounded this by arguing with an INTJ - who was not arguing from her "feelings" - that people don't have health insurance simply because they made "shitty choices" in life? That's not arrogant? There are libertarians on this site who are humble enough to admit that even though they have their libertarian principals, everyone who doesn't have health insurance didn't necessasarily make "shitty choices" in life.

However, people in political discussions sometimes get nasty, but then here you are over here in a thread talking about how selfish you are, and destroying people's minds, and killing your mentor's neighbor's trees whilst offering to "help him" chop the wood, there by benefiting yourself with free fire wood.

I think with the two things combined, and other little things observed, it was fair of me to say that you seem to lack Fe.

 

[Thalassa]

i'm going isfj 3w4.

i still get Fe, but it's unhealthy Fe that can only see one side of any equation. no Ni whatsoever. reading the blog shows attempts at strong self-assertion, resiliency, fighting back after feeling picked on. very Fe, just undeveloped and unaware of how to balance itself properly. the internal and external pressure is way off.

i think the stories are mostly well-written, but they lack self-awareness. they're too much focused on their own e3 image control, and unaware of the cheese of tangerine lip gloss (from an infj perspective). it's an obvious mistyping.

i'm sure entjs line up armies of isfj cronies when they need help on a scheme to fuck over their neighbors.

Hmm, based on the journal I would either agree with ISFJ, or even say INFP. There is definitely Si going on here, and the way he flatly defends his own poltical value system within emotional opinions actually seems Fi ... he's made the mistake of assuming that Fi doesn't care about other people. That just isn't true. It just means Fi brings values from within, and Fe bases theirs on cultural values.

His writing actually reminds me of my writing about ten years ago when I was much younger, and I would attribute it to an Fi-Si loop, honestly, which would indicate INFP.

It could be ISFJ - Si combined with hurt Fe.

 

[the state i am in]

Hmm, based on the journal I would either agree with ISFJ, or even say INFP. There is definitely Si going on here, and the way he flatly defends his own poltical value system within emotional opinions actually seems Fi ... he's made the mistake of assuming that Fi doesn't care about other people. That just isn't true. It just means Fi brings values from within, and Fe bases theirs on cultural values.

His writing actually reminds me of my writing about ten years ago when I was much younger, and I would attribute it to an Fi-Si loop, honestly, which would indicate INFP.

It could be ISFJ - Si combined with hurt Fe.

Fi feels weighty to me. one way i look at the difference between Fi and Fe is that Fi keeps the emotional resonances of its experiences and Fe doesn't. when i remember emotional states, it's not a concrete element, but the relationship between various things, the mood of something. but even then, the mood is difficult to recover, and what is left over is what is articulated as i attempt to understand that mood, a statement produced. what is stored is perceptual information, ideas, concepts, webs of relationship that can be imagined from various external representations of self, from my perspective. we keep more embodied voices around to judge these ideas thru Fe employing a highly advanced contextualization. whereas you keep all of your specific feelings. you use Ne to give articulation and to FIND or CONNECT your disparate and amorphous blob of Fi values into concrete metaphors. you use concrete to build analogies. we keep the analogies, but get rid of the concrete until they're just pure ethereal mind-stuff.

i don't see weighty Fi. i see wounded Fe that is trying to over-project an image to provide internal space, distance from the actual responses of others and actual recognition of self by others. hence the e3.

when i need space, i just shut the fuck up and walk away. maybe say something extremely pointed first (or probably later). that's the 5w4 vs 3w4. 5s hyperinflate themselves in their own private world, whereas 3s try to do it in the eyes of others. the 4w is the easily wounded part, reading negative experiences as personal defects and terrified of feeling ashamed before self and others.

 

[Billy]

Fi feels weighty to me. one way i look at the difference between Fi and Fe is that Fi keeps the emotional resonances of its experiences and Fe doesn't. when i remember emotional states, it's not a concrete element, but the relationship between various things, the mood of something. but even then, the mood is difficult to recover, and what is left over is what is articulated as i attempt to understand that mood, a statement produced. what is stored is perceptual information, ideas, concepts, webs of relationship that can be imagined from various external representations of self, from my perspective. we keep more embodied voices around to judge these ideas thru Fe employing a highly advanced contextualization. whereas you keep all of your specific feelings. you use Ne to give articulation and to FIND or CONNECT your disparate and amorphous blob of Fi values into concrete metaphors. you use concrete to build analogies. we keep the analogies, but get rid of the concrete until they're just pure ethereal mind-stuff.

i don't see weighty Fi. i see wounded Fe that is trying to over-project an image to provide internal space, distance from the actual responses of others and actual recognition of self by others. hence the e3.

when i need space, i just shut the fuck up and walk away. maybe say something extremely pointed first (or probably later). that's the 5w4 vs 3w4. 5s hyperinflate themselves in their own private world, whereas 3s try to do it in the eyes of others. the 4w is the easily wounded part, reading negative experiences as personal defects and terrified of feeling ashamed before self and others.

You sure talk the talk, but you seem like you lack any real understanding in terms of internal processing. I notice you pick up on things in my journal that strike you in an emotional way and I know you are probably just trying to defend your friend which is why you are obtusely trying to paint me as an ISFJ, but I think that is sort of like doing a disservice to yourself intellectually. Do you think she will like you more for coming to her rescue oh white knight? Because you are so far off base with your assertions that i am actually laughing. Did you roll a nice fattie before you wrote that tripe up? I am guessing you straight up didnt read anything I had written or read 2 lines and thought you came away with enough ammunition to "get me" had you kept reading though you might have seen another story unfold. But why am I even bothering to tell you this. Its pretty clear you arent interested in knowing anything, you just want to blurt out a bunch of BS, par for the course I guess. Are you sure you're an INFJ? I am aware in how contradictory it is for me to say that, but in this case I truly am curious. Did you ever test as INFP and INFJ and waffle back and forth?

 

[Billy]

First, you said "you're welcome non-tax payers" in regards to health care reform, and my reply was that it was arrogant to assume that the people who will benefit aren't employed full-time, or paying taxes, or working just as hard as you do. You flippantly replied that you pay as much in taxes as some working class families make in a year, which seems arrogant to brag that you have that much to give away considering the topic at hand. You further compounded this by arguing with an INTJ - who was not arguing from her "feelings" - that people don't have health insurance simply because they made "shitty choices" in life? That's not arrogant? There are libertarians on this site who are humble enough to admit that even though they have their libertarian principals, everyone who doesn't have health insurance didn't necessasarily make "shitty choices" in life.

However, people in political discussions sometimes get nasty, but then here you are over here in a thread talking about how selfish you are, and destroying people's minds, and killing your mentor's neighbor's trees whilst offering to "help him" chop the wood, there by benefiting yourself with free fire wood.

I think with the two things combined, and other little things observed, it was fair of me to say that you seem to lack Fe.

Did you even read what I wrote afterward about the trees etc? And saying we kill peoples minds is called a joke. I tend to understand people and their motivations pretty well, I figure things out about people I am talking to and they ultimately let me in and I know their secrets, its sort of stereotypical Ni crap. I live almost entirely on Ni. The problem we have with the land owner next to us is that he is incredibly sloppy and he is destroying the land value by not caring for it properly. I wrote that shit with a sort of tongue in cheek feeling which I later explained. It does neither of us a service to ignore some of the things I do and say and focus entirely on a narrow view of things I say and do.

And as I have said, online I don't sugar coat much of anything, there are no consequences here for me to worry about officially, I don't have to read it in your face so to speak.

 

[Thalassa]

You sure talk the talk, but you seem like you lack any real understanding in terms of internal processing. I notice you pick up on things in my journal that strike you in an emotional way and I know you are probably just trying to defend your friend which is why you are obtusely trying to paint me as an ISFJ, but I think that is sort of like doing a disservice to yourself intellectually. Do you think she will like you more for coming to her rescue oh white knight? Because you are so far off base with your assertions that i am actually laughing. Did you roll a nice fattie before you wrote that tripe up? I am guessing you straight up didnt read anything I had written or read 2 lines and thought you came away with enough ammunition to "get me" had you kept reading though you might have seen another story unfold. But why am I even bothering to tell you this. Its pretty clear you arent interested in knowing anything, you just want to blurt out a bunch of BS, par for the course I guess. Are you sure you're an INFJ? I am aware in how contradictory it is for me to say that, but in this case I truly am curious. Did you ever test as INFP and INFJ and waffle back and forth?

Actually, while I might feel geniality or respect for this individual, the state I am in have not enjoyed any sort of particularly close friendship before this thread, so I'm going to say that these are probaby the state I am in's real opinions, and that it's not some sort of situation where two people who are BFFs are ganging up on you. Not the case at all.

I see Si in your writing, too, and also in the basis for your political opinions (all people at the bottom are getting "free drugs"? you shouldn't have linked to your journal, it showed me where your prejudice toward people without health insurance began) - and while I feel sad for you as a person with disheartening childhood experiences, it's given you a (totally understandably) skewed, emotional impression upon which you have based your political opinions, which gives me a veerrrrry strong sensation of Si. Possibly Fi/Si loop - I wouldn't rule out INFP or ISFJ for you, seriously.

On one hand you have my sympathy, but on the other ...

 

[Billy]

Actually, while I might feel geniality or respect for this individual, the state I am in have not enjoyed any sort of particularly close friendship before this thread, so I'm going to say that these are probaby the state I am in's real opinions, and that it's not some sort of situation where two people who are BFFs are ganging up on you. Not the case at all.

I see Si in your writing, too, and also in the basis for your political opinions (all people at the bottom are getting "free drugs"? you shouldn't have linked to your journal, it showed me where your prejudice toward people without health insurance began) - and while I feel sad for you as a person with disheartening childhood experiences, it's given you a (totally understandably) skewed, emotional impression upon which you have based your political opinions, which gives me a veerrrrry strong sensation of Si. Possibly Fi/Si loop - I wouldn't rule out INFP or ISFJ for you, seriously.

On one hand you have my sympathy, but on the other ...

Yes but thats what I am saying, you seem to think these things made me skewed, but they didnt, they made me realistic. Which is why I get into trouble with these ridiculous healthcare debates. I have been on the bottom of the totem pole and scratched my way up on my own merits, no one gave it to me. I dont know if you OR he have the intuition as INFPs to see where I am coming from because you cannot disassociate your logic from your feelings. Believe it or not, INFJs do disassociate their logic from their feelings, we just realize that we still have feelings and we make a decision based on logic AND feelings. And the way that works out is that we tend to say things like "oh I know this isnt logical or right for me and the best thing for me to do would be to leave this situation, but I cant because I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I hurt her because it will kill her if I left her." This is the thought I had running through my head for 8 years while dating my ex gf. I know exactly logically what is what, but I make the choice any way. If that's not Fe for example, I don't know what is.

And you guys picking up on my projecting an image, doesn't mean Si, what it actually is is me protecting myself from everyone around me because my Fe gets me into trouble constantly when I try to fix people and fix things for people because I don't want them to feel bad. This is why I know that dude isnt an INFJ or he is an INFJ who is lying because he has an ends justify the means attitude, which in this case is lying. Because to read the stuff I wrote and say there is no Ni in there is laughable at best.

ALL INFJs project an image, we project a differnt image to every person we meet based on the person I said this in this very thread.