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[NT] NTs does sincerity/sincere kindness make you defenseless?

Argus

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NTs does sincerity/sincere kindness make you defenseless?
Unfortunately, more often than not, yes.
 

ygolo

My termites win
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Aug 6, 2007
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Right after my sister got out of the hospital, she was waiting at the front of the building for my dad to bring the car around because she was too weak to walk across the parking lot. She noticed a very sad-looking older lady standing near her who was also waiting for someone to come pick her up.

Jaye smiled at her a little because she said the lady looked so forlorn and sad. The lady smiled back and said something cavalier, remarked what pretty roses Jaye had in her arms, but Jaye asked why she was there, and the lady said that her husband had cancer from the job he worked for decades and was in a coma. She was leaving to go home and sleep after along vigil and her brother-in-law was arriving to take the next bed-side shift.

Jaye, after fighting for her own life, felt so sorry and sad for that lady - she wanted to hug her, but decided not to because Jaye said "I needed a bath" - but she gave the lady her roses. The lady looked astonished, then started to cry a little. Jaye found out that the lady's husband was in the hospital room occupied by me only a week before.

"We'll pray for you," Jaye said. "We'll pray for you and your husband."

When she got home, she was so distressed for that lady that I suggested we send flowers to his room with a card that read "From the girl with the roses... I didn't forget."

I know what it would mean to me to have someone remember me and take my struggle seriously, take it to heart when I feel the most alone and drowning. That level of kindness obliterates me, but it brings me closer to my center again after bracing and bracing against the hard knocks.

This sort of thing would leave me defenseless, I know.
 

substitute

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I'm pretty wary of people saying other people are fake. I've known an ISTJ for a long time who says a lot of things are fake from a lot of people whom I know to be genuine, and over the years I've realized that it's because for him, the only way he could show such responses would be to fake them, so he assumes other people aren't capable of them in a genuine way either. But obviously, just cos he's not capable of genuinely showing excitement at seeing a friend or relative by coincidence in a café (for example), it doesn't mean nobody else is.
 

ergophobe

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I'm pretty wary of people saying other people are fake. I've known an ISTJ for a long time who says a lot of things are fake from a lot of people whom I know to be genuine, and over the years I've realized that it's because for him, the only way he could show such responses would be to fake them, so he assumes other people aren't capable of them in a genuine way either. But obviously, just cos he's not capable of genuinely showing excitement at seeing a friend or relative by coincidence in a café (for example), it doesn't mean nobody else is.

I couldn't agree more! We all naturally see others using a lens based on our own experiences. Unfortunately, it doesn't always apply. Related to the F/T divide as well though not always - the confusion and misinterpretation exists at both ends.
 

skyler

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Stupid small kindnesses totally restore my faith in humanity. I'm always like, "so the world isn't full of a bunch of power hungry selfish jerks everywhere."

The woman at Costco who directed me go in front of her whole cart full of stuff when I had one item, for example. I mean, if I wouldn't begrudge her going first cause she wants to get out of there too. I mean it's pretty minor 30-seconds on her part but my gratitude for her niceness is way outsized for the small good deed.

Or when the drunk and incoherent girl is helped to get off the bus at her correct stop by half the people there. The idea that the world isn't all just a big crap-hole makes me really happy since a lot of the time it totally is.

I could come up with all kinds of examples, but little unexpected kindnesses to people, even if one of them isn't me, always make me feel better about things in general.
 

Ozz

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Sincere kindness goes right through. Sigh.

Unless of course I have reasons such as differing interests to doubt your sincerity. In that case, all actions are interpreted with that conflict of interest in mind. This approach works well.
 

JustHer

Pumpernickel
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Sincere kindness kills. There is a quote from Queer as Folk where he goes "I am killing you with kindness." Which is true. Kindness kills. Always be wary.
 

Son of the Damned

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Not really, no. However, it does make me far more inclined to be kind right back at them.
 

Fluffywolf

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Definatly not. It stands to reason that sincere kindness however does not result in us creating an offensive. But we're still far from defenseless.

There's just simply no reason to defend against sincere kindness.
 

Night

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No.

Honest kindness is a rare gem in life. More often than not, most acts of would-be compassion tend to undercarriage a self-serving caveat of some sort.

Encountering real humanity is a profound event. We should all be so lucky.
 

Timmy

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No. If from strangers, I generally get suspicious...but I attribute that more to my misanthropic nature than my ENTP-ness.

If from a friend, it's something that I would expect a friend to do, just as I do for friends. If from a stranger, and the situation seems weird in the context of the kindness, I get suspicious.

For example, I have on more than one occasion, hopped out of my truck to help someone push their out-of-gas car out of an intersection or into a parking lot. They are amazed, I say no problem and am on my way. In addition to having it SUCK to try and move a vehicle during an July afternoon in Arizona, it's just cool.

But if I just walked up to someone and was "being kind", or whatever, I would rightly expect them to be suspicious.

If someone does me a kindness, like covers a $1 or so I am short on some coffee drink, I am thankful, and try to "pay it forward" (I hate that phrase, but none other really fits). But it's not like they become my best friend. Nor would I expect them to become mine were the situation reversed.


When I'm sad or feeling negative in any way, I absolutely DO NOT want it "acknowledged" or paid any attention to at all by anyone else, openly. I want to be left alone, for it to not be mentioned and for me to be free to work it out by myself when I'm alone, unless I specifically approach someone asking for their advice. So I guess I tend to think, if I do notice that someone's down, that I should respect their personal space and not intrude, not say anything about it unless they solicit it.

Quoted for truth.
 

sculpting

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For ENTPs, they love my emotional happiness, caring, love, and positive feelings. However any display of unhappiness or pain makes them shun me. So when unhappy, I actually can not be sincere around most of them, with the exception of two very close friends. It is something I have been observing and working the past few months. It is very subtle and I dont think they are aware they do it. Even changes of vocal tone or facial expression are enough to make them withdraw a bit. For me, it is not ideal as it is rejection of my Fi. The ESTPs are even more apparent about this. So sincere happy makes them happy. Sincere sad makes them shun me.

I must apologize. I couldn’t see this from the inside.

A state of Fe feels very calm, relaxed, benevolent. Fe evokes Fe in other Fe users-calm, relaxed, benevolence amplifying. As a group we are together, loved. Fi is love, but love tinged with pain. It hurts to use, even in the good times.

For myself in an Fe state, a burst of Fi or Te from another person feels very disruptive, anxiety provoking. The calm waters were disrupted. I hesitantly suggest that a dom or aux Fe user is very stable in Fe, so the “burst” will provoke, but it is very easy to soothe internally.

Perhaps tert Fe users have a harder time finding that quiet Fe spot? For me, cheating, I lose it often, but once found, it is soothing. (Fe is like a valium coated lollipop of benevolent love). So the tert Fe users avoid Fi/Te “bursts” as internally it feels annoying, distracting, disruptive of the smooth waters?

“Why is that person being so self centered and selfish?” (thus pulling me away from my quiet, happy, productive place). I would suggest the more subtle aversion to other’s Fi pain-the shunning observed above- is almost an unconscious reflex/cringe, a learned pattern to avert the Fe disruption.

Interestingly, you can show a EXTP pain and they will respond-it just has to be expressed in an Fe way, the right words, gestures, expressions. Subtle Fe waves that form interference patterns as the two Fe waves lap into each other. It is actually very beautiful.
 

Kalach

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Quit. You got a CV lying around somewhere? Quit. There's something bizarre going on in your workplace and I want to know if you have a firearms license.


EDIT: WARNING, ILL-CONCEIVED RANT INCOMING:

Sincerity plays well with FPs and TJs for, I rant, the simple reason that Fi users are all separate. We decide by ourselves what is and isn't honest, good and true. When we are sincere, other Fi users recognise the presence of a guiding value produced from inside and viola, we can work together.

Sincerity in the FJ and TP community is different. It is no less sincere, but it is different. An Fi user doesn't automatically know how to trust it for, I rant on, the simple reason that Fe users count on a different ordering of what is valuable. Theirs is all around them. I wonder if it does not come and go according to the various perambulations and permutations of all the people in the environment, and I wonder too if this is not just the same as saying Fe sincerity is directive.

If you're one kind of person, then for you Fe orders the outside world, and has Ti running along inside to order the inner understanding. If you're another kind of person, Te is the order of the outside world, and that's okay because Fi has set up your inner values. The twain may well one day meet, but as a wholistic accord, not as a subsumption of the one by the other.

Fight! Resist! Enjoy! They are allowed to too.
 

forzen

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Yes,

sincere kindness gets me everytime, its my kryptonite.
 

BlahBlahNounBlah

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I must apologize. I couldn’t see this from the inside.

A state of Fe feels very calm, relaxed, benevolent. Fe evokes Fe in other Fe users-calm, relaxed, benevolence amplifying. As a group we are together, loved. Fi is love, but love tinged with pain. It hurts to use, even in the good times.

For myself in an Fe state, a burst of Fi or Te from another person feels very disruptive, anxiety provoking. The calm waters were disrupted. I hesitantly suggest that a dom or aux Fe user is very stable in Fe, so the “burst” will provoke, but it is very easy to soothe internally.

Perhaps tert Fe users have a harder time finding that quiet Fe spot? For me, cheating, I lose it often, but once found, it is soothing. (Fe is like a valium coated lollipop of benevolent love). So the tert Fe users avoid Fi/Te “bursts” as internally it feels annoying, distracting, disruptive of the smooth waters?

“Why is that person being so self centered and selfish?” (thus pulling me away from my quiet, happy, productive place). I would suggest the more subtle aversion to other’s Fi pain-the shunning observed above- is almost an unconscious reflex/cringe, a learned pattern to avert the Fe disruption.

Interestingly, you can show a EXTP pain and they will respond-it just has to be expressed in an Fe way, the right words, gestures, expressions. Subtle Fe waves that form interference patterns as the two Fe waves lap into each other. It is actually very beautiful.



I really appreciate this insight. It seems true to me. I try to understand and help when someone is pain ... but there's that translation issue that has to be worked through, and it doesn't happen automatically. It takes effort.:hug:
 

Metamorphosis

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I wouldn't say that kindness makes me defenseless. I would say that sincerely kind loving people are easy for me to open up to and the make me feel protective of them. I think maybe because I'm always so cold, internally and externally, that when I experience this it is kind of awe-inspiring. I get like a "people can do that and feel comfortable and its acceptable?" feeling.
 

miss fortune

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nope, I suspect that other people are nice because they want something, even if its just an interesting interaction where they could learn something. Isn't that why EVERYONE is nice to other people? :huh:
 

forzen

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nope, I suspect that other people are nice because they want something, even if its just an interesting interaction where they could learn something. Isn't that why EVERYONE is nice to other people? :huh:

Sincere, meaning unconditional kindness. The same way INTJ has the ability to be naturally cold/unfeeling/blunt/etc. I have my doubt about human kindness too, but there's a polar opposite to everything and i believe that their's people that's naturally kind.
 

BlahBlahNounBlah

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nope, I suspect that other people are nice because they want something, even if its just an interesting interaction where they could learn something. Isn't that why EVERYONE is nice to other people? :huh:


I'm nice because:

a) It feels good to be nice.

b) Cruelty without a good reason doesn't contribute anything to mankind.


Sometimes people think I'm being mean when I'm being honest, and I think that's their problem, not mine. But I'm never intentionally mean or cruel to anyone ever. At worst, I'm intentionally blunt.
 
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