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[MBTI General] Convincing someone that they are not an INTP

Wolf

only bites when provoked
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
2,127
MBTI Type
INTJ
Sounds... INTJ.

(Don't hurt me dear!)
*stabs you...gently*

Let me cover the points in here:
2)at her worse, I find her to be stubborn, she tends to get overwhelmed by new ideas.
This is not the nature of any NT of any variety. STs get overwhelmed because they learn in such a methodical fashion.

She's always hugging people (only her friends though)
This is a sure sign of introversion.

and telling them how much she loves them and how she's going to miss them.
Sounds feeler, but hard to say. Neither INTX would do this, it's just flat not in our nature.

She has a habit of getting into abusive relationships
This is a hallmark of ISFJs, and INFJs to a lesser extent. I've also seen it in some other IXFX types, but not as clearly as the above two, especially ISFJ.

The more important question is: How long does it take them to get out of these abusive relationships?

She picks stuff based on aesthetics more then function.
Not an INTX or ISTX.

but my brain with lack of sleep thinks every thing's a conspiracy, and all tests lie and our wrong.
Are you an INFX? They do this all the time.


Provided the data you provided was objective, I'll give a high likelihood of ISTJ or ISFJ, and probably close to the border.
 

prplchknz

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Jun 11, 2007
Messages
34,397
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yupp
Yeah what through me was the fact that she thought she was a thinker. I mean she could be intuitive, but I always saw her more as a sensor, But all of the logical people I've met never buys something because it's "pretty" or "shiny", like us feelers occasionally do. I mean if it's pretty and doesn't cost too much then why not?

I also say sensor, because like ptgatsby or some other sensor pointed out ( I can't remember who said that, I think it was him, not 100% sure) that even introverted ones make friends or something, and she has a lot of friends, even though she only will hang out with a couple at a time and makes them easily. Unlike myself who can count all her friends on one hand,

btw as far as I can tell I'm an INFP
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
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594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I also say sensor, because like ptgatsby or some other sensor pointed out ( I can't remember who said that, I think it was him, not 100% sure) that even introverted ones make friends or something, and she has a lot of friends, even though she only will hang out with a couple at a time and makes them easily. Unlike myself who can count all her friends on one hand,

That is not strong evidence of S/N, as far as I am concerned -- I think it's a supporting piece of evidence, but it's dangerous to draw the initial assessment from that. NPs can be prone to make lots of friends as well, depending on their circumstances, because they flex so much and explore others/the relationships.
 

Randomnity

insert random title here
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ISTP
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6w5
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sp/sx
Yeah what through me was the fact that she thought she was a thinker. I mean she could be intuitive, but I always saw her more as a sensor, But all of the logical people I've met never buys something because it's "pretty" or "shiny", like us feelers occasionally do. I mean if it's pretty and doesn't cost too much then why not?

I also say sensor, because like ptgatsby or some other sensor pointed out ( I can't remember who said that, I think it was him, not 100% sure) that even introverted ones make friends or something, and she has a lot of friends, even though she only will hang out with a couple at a time and makes them easily. Unlike myself who can count all her friends on one hand,

btw as far as I can tell I'm an INFP
Uhh...I know an INFJ who has way more friends/acquaintances than me. I've never known number of friends to be a trait for S/N.

Buying things because they're pretty is more an SF, ST, or "female" trait, if you want to be stereotypical. I will usually consider the aesthetic value of something, and will often pay a bit more for something that looks good, although of course I wouldn't buy some random object just because it's "pretty".
 

prplchknz

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Messages
34,397
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yupp
Oh, I'm not, drawing the line their, I haven't made any strong decisions except that she doesn't feel INTP too me, but I could be wrong. Both my dad and my friend who also tested INTP feels more INTP then her. Also because I'm emotionally involved I could be way off, and for some reason think she's not an INTP even though she is.
 

GZA

Resident Snot-Nose
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,771
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infp
When I am in serious doubt of the type of someone, I like to get a "second opinion" by Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes . If she is really a feeler, I think it will be better at getting it out of her, than a conventional MBTI test.
I really like that quiz, I think it gives good answers, and it evaluated things other quizes I've done did not. It showed how much I use each process, which I think gave better insight. For example, it noted that I have very high use of Se, something I think I've developed on from learning to play music, but not something I would otherwise have had. It really noted what aspects of thought I simply don't use (Te, Si), and what ones I use in little amounts (Ti)... it gave a broader understanding of the thought process. Thanks!
 

kristin

New member
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
11
MBTI Type
INTJ
2)at her worse, I find her to be stubborn, she tends to get overwhelmed by new ideas. She's always hugging people (only her friends though) and telling them how much she loves them and how she's going to miss them. I remember one time at Tropical Smoothie, Our friend and I wanted to go get go get food as we already found a place to sit, we both went to go leave and she was like "No stay, I don't want to be alone" The other friend who likes to be alone and tested INTP (and I he fits the description) as well was like "We're going down stairs to get food, we'll be right back" he ended up giving me the money and I ordered for him. She's a very talented opera singer, and loves performing (but I can see how people from all types could be that). She has a very addictive personality, I don't think that would apply strictly to a type. She loves gay men (but really what girl doesn't?), and she was upset when she found dumbledore was gay because she had a crush on him. She has a habit of getting into abusive relationships, she can sometimes annoy me. When I'm at home from school and she is aswell we meet at Borders which is a 30 minute drive. In highschool I'd be on my way and she'd call and I'd be five minutes away and she'd be like I changed my mind I don't want to anything. She'll promise me something but then won't follow through. She has a terrible sense of direction, she'd get lost if their wasn't either someone else in the car or someone she could follow. She likes to bake and decorate cakes, and they're pretty. She's a perfectionist. We both have the same taste in guys, we both like the same tv shows. I've known her so long I can't say why I like her, except she's a good friend and we look out for each other.

3.)She tends to pass judgements on what people are wearing, or whatever random things. Lately she's been philosphizing more then she use to, In the past I would try to philosophize with her and it wouldn't work. She's always asking what song lyrics mean, about how fat she is and how skinny people are happy. Even though I try to tell her that she'll never be happy with that outlook on life. She picks stuff based on aesthetics more then function. Our other friend and I will be like "ummm ok. But what's it for/ couldn't you have just done that instead" she's like "yeah but it's pretty, see" then points out something on it. I can be like this but I normally only do that if the product isn't expensive. She asked us how to talk to the bank teller once. I don't know how to answer that um just talk. and We were right their, and the lady was staring at us.


I'll add more if I think of it. Also I think I was sleep deprived so she could be INTP, the more I think about it I can see how she can fit. She's defiently on the border for some. but my brain with lack of sleep thinks every thing's a conspiracy, and all tests lie and our wrong.

Okay, maybe I'm way off here... this is just a working hypothesis...

Are you sure you think she's a Sensor? Sensors are usually more content than restless, live in the moment, dislike sacrificing for future goals. Here are a few N characteristics that seem to fit your friend well:

1) restless and insecure (always comparing her weight, for example, to others, doesn't want to be left alone in public).
2) you say she's intelligent but yet you're frustrated that you always have to help her with common sense things (working the computer, talking to the bank teller, directions while driving).
3) she seems to be a dreamer - you say she is often overwhelmed by ideas. A lot of intuitives will feel a strong pull or attraction to something, begin to idealize it, and will then become stubborn when others point out any negative aspects or attempt to steer them back to reality. For example, if she is an intuitive, she may feel a strong attraction to pharmacy for the reason you mentioned earlier or some other reason, convince herself it is the perfect career for her even if it isn't, and mold herself into that career, putting on her "pharmacy" personality at school. Does her personality tend to change depending on the person she's with or the place she's in?
4) Having a crush on a fictional character and then being so upset to find out he is gay is not a down-to-earth, rational thought. It sounds very N, especially NF, to me.
5) She tested as an N, so it's likely she is one.

Everything you have said about your friend screams NF to me, not just based on the temperament description but based on NFs in my family and NF friends.

Also, you said you share the same interests in guys and TV shows. Since you think you are an NF, that would make you both NFs and might explain why. It would be very possible for you both to be NFs and still be very different in many ways.

Here are some excerpts from the book "Do What You Are" regarding NF temperament and weaknesses:

"Idealists (NFs) have a tendency to make decisions based exclusively on their own personal likes and dislikes." (reminded me of her buying habits)

"They have a great capacity for self-reproach. Sometimes they will sacrifice their own opinion for the sake of harmony. At their worst, they can be moody, unpredictable, and overemotional."

What are your thoughts on this? Any way she might really be an N like she says, just an NF instead of an NT?
 

prplchknz

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yupp
well i'm more confused about her type then before. I guess she could be an NF but she says I'm weird but in good way that I'm entertaining. So maybe NF but I doubt INFP, I mean i guess their's a wide range she could fit in and we could be on different sides of INFP.

And I'm questioning my type once again.
 

Recluse

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Sep 3, 2007
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INXP
Thought process is more indicative of type than behavior.

A Sensor has a better grasp of reality, seeing what is actually there rather than what could be there if one were to get creative--which an Intuitive does by nature, occasionally leading to vague or mystical ideas. Sensors may seem more mentally focused, because Intuitives are prone to ricocheting tangential thoughts. Due to their concrete, reality-based manner of thinking, a Sensor will often take an Intuitive's figurative statements literally. A Sensor who is given to exaggeration would be deliberately doing so for effect (hyperbole), whereas an Intuitive may exaggerate without even being aware that they are doing so, since they view the world through the lens of their imagination.
 

prplchknz

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Yeah, I've kind of wondered if I'm not a sensor. I can sometimes take things that are symbolic literally but then other times I take things that are literal as symbolic. I'm sure everyone does this.
 

Usehername

On a mission
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Thought process is more indicative of type than behavior.

A Sensor has a better grasp of reality, seeing what is actually there rather than what could be there if one were to get creative--which an Intuitive does by nature, occasionally leading to vague or mystical ideas. Sensors may seem more mentally focused, because Intuitives are prone to ricocheting tangential thoughts. Due to their concrete, reality-based manner of thinking, a Sensor will often take an Intuitive's figurative statements literally. A Sensor who is given to exaggeration would be deliberately doing so for effect (hyperbole), whereas an Intuitive may exaggerate without even being aware that they are doing so, since they view the world through the lens of their imagination.

this is true. but, as always, one must remember it's a gradient so everyone does both. and that you (prolly) aren't with someone 24/7 so perhaps you have a committed-to-the-project N who looks very task-focused, or you might have a Sensor who is immature/not committed to the project/not in their element and is not task-focused and might appear more N.
 

Recluse

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Sep 3, 2007
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this is true. but, as always, one must remember it's a gradient so everyone does both. and that you (prolly) aren't with someone 24/7 so perhaps you have a committed-to-the-project N who looks very task-focused, or you might have a Sensor who is immature/not committed to the project/not in their element and is not task-focused and might appear more N.

I suppose in that case you'd need to ask the person what they were thinking about. Behavior is tricky. I look for an overall pattern and seek insight into the reasons for the behavior, which may mean asking questions. With a friend that shouldn't be a problem.
 

TenebrousReflection

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I can understand wanting to help someone find and acknowledge what they are. Anyone who has ever felt like they had been living a lie and eventually found they had been deceiving themselves would I think have some regret for not seeing it earlier, and if you think you see someone deceiving themselves and trying to live a life that is not fulfilling to them because they think they are what they are not, well I think trying to help them is a good thing, but you may need to be very tactful and perhaps subtle in going about it to avoid being seen as controlling or trying to force your ideas on them.

As for trying to make them see it, I think finding the right questions to ask to get them thinking for themselves is the best way to go. You may need to find and understand their core values before you can find a way to make them see whats really important to them.

First, if you have not already done so, please read the INTP profile at An INTP Profile and see if you see glaring contradictions between it and her or not (and if you think it would not offend her, point her to it for reading as well). Its not uncommon for people to "wear a mask" so often they appear very different than they are and their true self may actually be an INTP in that case. Its equally possible especially if the test is taken in an academic or business environment, that the subconscious will have you answering as you "think you should" for the occasion (when I first took the test in a business environment, I scored as INTJ because I was answering "as I would as a worker in that environment" and not as "my true self".)

Here is another short description of Ti as the dominant function (applies to both INTP and ISTP)
From "Was that Really Me" by Naomi L. Quenk
Introverted Thinking types maintain the utmost objectivity. They approach people and events as dispassionate observers, with the goal of arriving at the most comprehensive truth possible. The process of objective analysis is a source of great enjoyment for the introverted thinking type, with its outcome often of much lesser importance. Introverted Thinking types typically do not take constructive criticism and disagreement personally. They often welcome tough, unrelenting critique as an aid to achieving the highest levels of accuracy and objectivity

Because they do not take criticism personally, ISPTs and INTPs are often surprised to discover that others are hurt or offended by their constructive criticism. Others often see them as distant, unfeeling, disinterested in people, and arrogant - all characteristics that they disavow. The fact that they may appear to have these qualities is a function of their basic typological approach, which applies objective analysis to most things, including people.

The impression I get from what you have wrote is that she has a strong connection to Extroverted Sensing. If she is an introvert, that eliminates the possibility of extroverted sensing as the dominant function, but it is the axillary function of ISTP and ISFP. An ISTP could account for similarities and differences to an INTP and an ISFP could account for similarity to you (on the basis of introverted feeling) as well as why she might think you are weird. My inclination would be toward ISFP (Fi > Se > Ni > Te).

from Extraverted Sensing
Extraverted Sensing occurs when we become aware of what is in the physical world in rich detail. We may be drawn to act on what we experience to get an immediate result. We notice relevant facts and occurrences in a sea of data and experiences, learning all the facts we can about the immediate context or area of focus and what goes on in that context. An active seeking of more and more input to get the whole picture may occur until all sources of input have been exhausted or something else captures our attention. Extraverted Sensing is operating when we freely follow exciting physical impulses or instincts as they come up and enjoy the thrill of action in the present moment. A oneness with the physical world and a total absorption may exist as we move, touch, and sense what is around us. The process involves instantly reading cues to see how far we can go in a situation and still get the impact we want or respond to the situation with presence.

A questions to consider...

What conversation topics get her animated and enthusiastic (the stuff where she is willing and eager to share her thoughts/feelings on them)? Are they mostly about concrete real world things, or abstract ideas? Are they about how she feels about things, or more what she thinks about things (subjective vs objective).

.
 

prplchknz

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yupp
This would be easier if I still saw her everyday. I'll do this when I go home for thanksgiving, I'll defiently see her. Maybe I'll get her to take the functions test, but I can predict she's going to say it's wrong. But she did like the ISTJ description for her, but I don't know. Maybe I'm just better letting her think she's an INTP. So yeah, I could get her do the 8 functions test but I do think she took the official one, but I mean if she was in a certain mood she could have gotten mis typed, but she doesn't think that's possible because it's official and therefore can never be wrong.
 

HeavyMetal

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Oct 28, 2007
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ixxj
LOL. Oh man. Have her meet one. An INTp is definitely cynical of their own diagnosis. NEVER admittedly excepting it for the longest time. She is the complete opposite. haha. Her insane denial can only be put to an end if she deals with her REAL issues. She is obviously compensating for something--beit lack of confidence, self-hate, a crack addiction. hahahaha. Sorry. I try not to but I can't help but laugh, knowingly.
 

Mort Belfry

Rats off to ya!
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Jan 12, 2008
Messages
1,238
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INTP
Poor girl, leave her alone. Does she know there's a thread started up about her on an obscure website? It would kill her. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, look at you, look at what you've become.
 
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