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[MBTI General] Why I couldn't possibly be an NF

entropie

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Actually, what I said is true because of how I defined intuition. I was using it as a synonym for hunch, which it IS a synonym for if you look at a thesaurus.

In this case, I had a hunch (or vague guess) that the therapy methods I mentioned were effective. Since I haven't seen proof of it, and don't logically understand what makes it work, that counts. ;)

Ok have it your way, just consider yourself being told: it made me angry
 

Shimmy

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I use the same method nowadays, because it is such an effective tool. Took me a while to figure it out though :)
How long have you been doing this? And what caused it?

I've been rationalizing my emotions all my life, but only since about 2 years do I realize that I do it, and found that I can train it like any other skill. My amateur interest in neurology and neurotransmitters made it even easier for me because now I know that emotions are factually nothing else then cognitive responses originating from chemical reactions in the brain leading to a certain mental state, which in return produces new chemical reactions. The reactions I cannot control, I feel happiness, sadness, love, satisfaction and other basic feelings just as much as anybody else, but the cognitive response is pretty much fully under my control nowadays, which in return means that the reactions don't usually get me in any state of mind for a long time. Which then leads to the cycle being broken and an emotion not persisting for longer then it has to.
 

Athenian200

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Ok have it your way, just consider yourself being told: it made me angry

I'm sorry my choice of words made you feel angry towards me, then. I wasn't aware of having said anything offensive.
 

Shimmy

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In fact, last week I made a thread in the bonfire mentioning that I was being bored and asking for advice. I was bored, but there was more going on. At the time I was feeling understandably bad. The reactions of my breakup were going on in my brain, and as mentioned earlier, until these reactions stop and my brain is in it's natural state again I feel things just the same way as anybody else. So I felt horrible. Hated to be on my own at that time. Couldn't enjoy anything that didn't basically indulged my senses. I partied a lot last week and drank waaay to much. Now however, the initial reaction is gone. I'm also no longer bitter about the break up. I still miss the girl and think about her a lot, but that's what it is. Thinking... I'm thinking, "What are the pro's and con's of staying friends with her?" "What is the best attitude to have towards her in the future (since I will most certainly see her again at parties and while going out as we tend to have very much a similar taste for those things)." And the more troubling thoughts are things I can't know from within "Is she currently feeling al right?" "She's an ESFP with a tremendous F, and a tendency to be overwhelmed by her emotions. If I contact her sometimes how will it emotionally affect her?"
 

INTP

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This doesn't prove you couldn't be an NF, though. It just proves that you're very self-critical about your emotional states.

Yea but hes being critical from analytical and objective perspective and thats something that Ti does if its placed over Fi. If he would be nf, he wouldt have Ti analyzing like that, or atleast not that easilly and he wouldnt trust this kind of analysis that much.
 

Shimmy

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Things I learned from this relationship in particular.

1. I need an extroverted girl to draw me out of my shell and get me to do fun things.
2. Theories are NOT value judgements. If I say something you think is bad, I don't see it that way.
3. I really like feelers and the emotional joy and happiness they can have. But you have to understand that I don't work that way. Don't hold back on my account. I'll put my own feelings into perspective.
4. A girl must be unassuming. I'm a straightforward guy. If I say something, I have thought about it and I mean it. If you assume a different meaning then what I actually said, you are wrong. On the same time I'll be thinking about all the possible meanings of your words myself, before settling with the fact that the most likely interpretation is just the literal words you used.

Basically this makes me seemed like I'm biased towards ENTX's, but that's not really true, I prefer ENXP's really. It's just that this particular girl was an ESFP with a huge F, which made for quite an emotional rollercoaster for the both of us. Both for the better and the worst.

And yeah, INTP, I think you're right. The fact that I analysed all of my behaviours consciously is the reason why I stated that I'm not an NF.
 

Totenkindly

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Yea but hes being critical from analytical and objective perspective and thats something that Ti does if its placed over Fi. If he would be nf, he wouldt have Ti analyzing like that, or atleast not that easilly and he wouldnt trust this kind of analysis that much.


Not taking a stance on Shimmy yet, but yes, +1 on this.
How the function gets used and in what context helps as a type identifier.
 

Amargith

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I dunno what you call it, but I do the same. I experience the feelings, after the rush has passed, I'll go through them, analyze them and file them (Te?), so I can make an informed decision on how to take action.
 

Matthew_Z

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I'm not sure I can accept your story on the basis that it involves an INTP having a girlfriend.

I was never a big fan of breaking emotions down into the chemical reactions that create and sustain them. In my observation, the end result is always rationalizing away the "positive" emotions as well as the "negative" ones. Reductionism of the self, while a perfectly valid approach, can be self-defeating. While I can agree with viewing this whole scenario as a series of cause and effect, I wouldn't place focus on the "physical" side of it.
 

entropie

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I'm not sure I can accept your story on the basis that it involves an INTP having a girlfriend.

I was never a big fan of breaking emotions down into the chemical reactions that create and sustain them. In my observation, the end result is always rationalizing away the "positive" emotions as well as the "negative" ones. Reductionism of the self, while a perfectly valid approach, can be self-defeating. While I can agree with viewing this whole scenario as a series of cause and effect, I wouldn't place focus on the "physical" side of it.

I think it's ok, if it helps someone to deal with negative emotions. It just has to stay within a healthy limit for oneself, cause repressed emotions will come back. A friend of mine went into skydiving after his longtime girl cheated on him and jumps on official contests now, lol. That's about the most funny way of dealing with shit I ever heard :D
 

Shimmy

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I'm not sure I can accept your story on the basis that it involves an INTP having a girlfriend.

I tell you something else. When I first heard about MBTI and started to type myself I had quite a difficulty figuring out if I was an INTP or an ENTP. While definitely not all the time I do have a strong need to be around other people a lot of the time. Doesn't really matter who, where or what, but half a day is about the longest time I can go for without feeling lonely. On the other hand I do very much need my own space. I need peace and quiet to organize my thoughts and come up with grand theories of live. Even when I'm thinking I sometimes don't really mind people in the room. I often go for walks down-town through the crowds just to get my thoughts organised.

The main reason I'd say I'm an Introvert instead of an extrovert is because it comes out of all my tests, and the fact that my Ti is definitely my primary function. I see myself as a INTP with a relatively large amount of Fe, maybe even more than Si. I don't know if there's a theory on it already, but self-examinating I reckon my cognitive functions would be Ti>Ne>Fe>Si

I was never a big fan of breaking emotions down into the chemical reactions that create and sustain them. In my observation, the end result is always rationalizing away the "positive" emotions as well as the "negative" ones. Reductionism of the self, while a perfectly valid approach, can be self-defeating. While I can agree with viewing this whole scenario as a series of cause and effect, I wouldn't place focus on the "physical" side of it.

I didn't until recently. Somebody once made a thread I believe was called "How to loose your mind". The article posted in there tried to learn people to observe their emotions rather then participate blindly. If you observe them first you still have the choice of participating afterwards. I already did this before I read the article, but it did get me thinking that this was a genuine theory that could be evolved into a skill to learn. Later, when I was actually looking up how XTC works it dawned me that XTC is a chemical bliss, but not only the drug is chemical, it causes a chemical proses in the brain that IS the happy emotion. Taking drugs is not faking an emotion, it is a stimulus to actually be happy. The neurotransmitters are the one and only cause of the feeling. After realizing this my Ti kicked in again and I started thinking about the implications of this finding, including the one you read here.
 

Moiety

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Matthew_Z said:
I was never a big fan of breaking emotions down into the chemical reactions that create and sustain them. In my observation, the end result is always rationalizing away the "positive" emotions as well as the "negative" ones. Reductionism of the self, while a perfectly valid approach, can be self-defeating. While I can agree with viewing this whole scenario as a series of cause and effect, I wouldn't place focus on the "physical" side of it.

Basically, this.

There is a point between biology/logic and emotional recklessness that proves happiness for many people.

Besides, the beautiful thing about Ne is that you never know what might be in store for you.
 

Virtual ghost

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I tell you something else. When I first heard about MBTI and started to type myself I had quite a difficulty figuring out if I was an INTP or an ENTP. While definitely not all the time I do have a strong need to be around other people a lot of the time. Doesn't really matter who, where or what, but half a day is about the longest time I can go for without feeling lonely. On the other hand I do very much need my own space. I need peace and quiet to organize my thoughts and come up with grand theories of live. Even when I'm thinking I sometimes don't really mind people in the room. I often go for walks down-town through the crowds just to get my thoughts organised.

The main reason I'd say I'm an Introvert instead of an extrovert is because it comes out of all my tests, and the fact that my Ti is definitely my primary function. I see myself as a INTP with a relatively large amount of Fe, maybe even more than Si. I don't know if there's a theory on it already, but self-examinating I reckon my cognitive functions would be Ti>Se>Fe>Si



I didn't until recently. Somebody once made a thread I believe was called "How to loose your mind". The article posted in there tried to learn people to observe their emotions rather then participate blindly. If you observe them first you still have the choice of participating afterwards. I already did this before I read the article, but it did get me thinking that this was a genuine theory that could be evolved into a skill to learn. Later, when I was actually looking up how XTC works it dawned me that XTC is a chemical bliss, but not only the drug is chemical, it causes a chemical proses in the brain that IS the happy emotion. Taking drugs is not faking an emotion, it is a stimulus to actually be happy. The neurotransmitters are the one and only cause of the feeling. After realizing this my Ti kicked in again and I started thinking about the implications of this finding, including the one you read here.


You are absolutly right. You can't possibly be an NF. :devil:
 

entropie

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Besides, the beautiful thing about Ne is that you never know what might be in store for you.

That's not fully true, I heard real Ne masters can predict the prediction or as they would say predict the predicament :D
 

INTP

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Later, when I was actually looking up how XTC works it dawned me that XTC is a chemical bliss, but not only the drug is chemical, it causes a chemical proses in the brain that IS the happy emotion. Taking drugs is not faking an emotion, it is a stimulus to actually be happy. The neurotransmitters are the one and only cause of the feeling. After realizing this my Ti kicked in again and I started thinking about the implications of this finding, including the one you read here.

I think that drug altered mind can tell really much how the mind works.

I think cannabis and psychedelics are great tool for learning your mind, because you can look at different functions apart from each other. Personally i think cannabis is better tool for me on this, because i know how it works on me really well, i enjoy doing it and its not so strong that i couldnt think straight under the influence. It allows me to view world from different perspective, because i am able to use functions differently when stoned. It kinda evens out the energy that im using normally too much for the strongest functions, so that im able to use weaker functions better. However i see that the functions dont work the same way as they would work on me if they would have grown naturally to point that im able to use them when stoned. I think its really important to see that functions doesent work normally when using this tool, and that it is only a tool that you can use to examine how the functions work normally on deeper level. But if you dont know clearly enough how the functions work normally, and if you dont know how cannabis alteres you functions clear enough, you cant see the difference clearly enough from normal and altered state, and you cant get clear deeper understanding to the things that you try to understand.

I dont think that cannabis or psychedelics are for everyone tho. Because not everyone can handle/understand the different perspectives that you might see things from and they allso can bring suppressed feelings(or ways to react to something) to surface that you might not even be aware of. This can be too overwhelming for some people, especially if they cant undstand and recognise what they see. And if you suddenly get some really intense feeling of something bad that you cant recognise and you dont know where it is coming, you might get panic attacks and bad stuff like that. And stuff that triggers panic attacks or other bad stuff, usually comes somewhere really deep subconcious. Allso cannabis and psychedelics tend to make you feel things more stronger and can work as really big tools on self-suggesting. My theory about panic attacks coming from these substances is that you first get some feeling that you cant understand and that are negative, then you start self-suggesting yourself because you get the feelings so strongly. And i belive that it is highly possible that psychosis is extreme form of these two actions.
 

The Decline

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I'm interested in Shimmy taking a functions tests. Perhaps do one during an emotional state such as you described, and another in a more cool/rational headspace.
 

Shimmy

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I'm interested in Shimmy taking a functions tests. Perhaps do one during an emotional state such as you described, and another in a more cool/rational headspace.

I'm fairly sure results would differ greatly. For example, I reckon, at any time when I was on holiday this summer I would've scored as an extreme extrovert. To be honest, if my girlfriend had broken up before that holiday....... Some girls around Europe would be a pleasant experience richer.
 

Bowie

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Later, when I was actually looking up how XTC works it dawned me that XTC is a chemical bliss, but not only the drug is chemical, it causes a chemical proses in the brain that IS the happy emotion. Taking drugs is not faking an emotion, it is a stimulus to actually be happy. The neurotransmitters are the one and only cause of the feeling. After realizing this my Ti kicked in again and I started thinking about the implications of this finding, including the one you read here.

It's true, MDMA causes the release of extra serotonin. But this isn't going to be true of all drugs. Psilocybin and LSD mimic serotonin, but don't necessarily release it.

The emotions you can feel on drugs are very real, but not always reality. You can convince yourself of anything once you step over to the other side.
 

Tamske

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I made an observation about myself yesterday which, after a bit of theorizing made me realize why I couldn't possibly be an NF.

When I have an emotion I think about why I have it.

Sounds like me.
Sometimes I'm not realising I'm having an emotion until I can think about it... Yesterday, I was repeating the last lesson I taught over and over in my head, trying other things to say to my imaginary students... until I realised I just felt bad about the lesson. And then my mind went berserk again, trying to come up with a lot of alternatives, never really shutting down. Only a lot later I was able to distill what went wrong and what I would do when a similar situation arises. The bad feeling didn't go away at once, of course, but I was calmed down as I knew the problem was solved and everything would be back to normal in a little while.
 
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