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[INTJ] A Manual for INTJ's

ps646566

New member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
32
MBTI Type
INTJ
It is probably typically INTJ, and possibly INTP, to expect the world at large to change in order to better accommodate us. But it isn’t going to happen. Having acquired substantial life-experience, I can offer some perspective on how to cope with life in general. Forgive me if these homilies sound like stating the obvious, but in my experience they are not necessarily adhered to by those who would benefit from adhering to them. I wish that I had done so to a greater extent earlier in life :-

• Adolescence is difficult for most people -- all the more so if you feel, and seem, a bit ‘different’. However it does get easier as you grow up, especially if you are prepared to make some effort to conform, where conformity is not too compromising that is.

• Don’t get too preoccupied with believing yourself to be special or different. A downside of a website like this is that it can reinforce such beliefs. Contrary to what some people would argue, the personality distinctions are not black and white, but are in fact shades of grey. Anyway we are all different by virtue of conditioning factors -- upbringing, life experience etc. People of other personality traits have their problems too, eg vulnerability, lack of assertiveness, or lack of perseverance.

• Most people cannot tolerate being confronted with the uncomfortable truth, but we are masters at delivering it. This is especially the case when it's accompanied by the feeling that we can see right through them – which we often can. It therefore helps to train yourself to think before speaking, and to hold back when the likely adverse consequences outweigh the beneficial ones (and let’s face it we should be good at figuring that one out).

• Sticking to one’s principles and beliefs will certainly help you to sleep nights. But it comes at a price, and such an approach does not make life any easier in many situations. It helps to accept that you can’t have it all ways – be philosophical.

• Other people’s stupidity, laziness, incompetence, and insincerity will no doubt frequently surprise, irritate, and depress you. Accept that the nature of society reflects in large part people whose brains are wired differently from ours (after all we apparently represent only 2% of the population, and our INTP soul-mates another 3%). Get over it -- it’s a very imperfect world.

• Regarding conflicts and confrontations, firstly learn to pick the battles which are big enough to fight but small enough to win. Secondly learn to pick targets carefully and (at least sometimes) snipe from behind chimneys rather than going in all-guns-blazing.

• If and when accused of not being a ‘team player’, or suchlike, it often helps to invite the accuser to state exactly what they mean by ‘the team’, and what are it’s primary objective/s. This approach does not win many friends (see above point), but does tend to disarm the protagonist, and in rare cases may even induce them to reconsider their stance to the benefit of all.

• Unless you are Richard the Lionheart, don’t try to lead crusades.

• Most people judge others on a fairly superficial basis, especially initially. So getting on better with people can to some extent be a forced exercise, with a few old tricks :- smile, give a firm handshake, make deliberate eye contact, remember names and use them, indulge in small talk and crack a few jokes. These things do not necessarily come naturally, but they can be self-trained with a bit of effort.

• Don’t try to be what you’re not -- play to your strengths, and play down your weaknesses. This applies in private as well as working life, and may in fact be easier outside the work environment. For example, if too much interaction with others is irksome, then don’t get too involved in joining clubs or societies, and especially don’t get involved with committees, etc.

• Nobody likes a smart-arse, but they sometimes grudgingly respect them. Nevertheless your intelligence, logic, and rationality will not always be acknowledged or appreciated. Sadly, being right often has nothing to do with it. People with less intellect, but other ‘attributes’, such as persuasive charm, bullying ability, or animal cunning will use these to steal a march on you, often successfully. Again, be philosophical.

• Chances are that little that you ever say or do will make any significant difference. Wanting to change the world for the better is a worthy aim of youth, but it will only lead to disillusionment if carried too far into adult life. And anyway let’s be logical and realistic -- how many people ever really do make a significant difference ?


Any other suggestions, especially from those who have substantial life experience ?
 
G

GirlAmerica

Guest
• Other people’s stupidity, laziness, incompetence, and insincerity will no doubt frequently surprise, irritate, and depress you. Accept that the nature of society reflects in large part people whose brains are wired differently from ours (after all we apparently represent only 2% of the population, and our INTP soul-mates another 3%). Get over it -- it’s a very imperfect world.

And just because you bring the facts of such to light in someone elses life/world...does not mean they wish to correct it...even if they say they do.
Some people simply prefer/like to live life that way.
 

Usehername

On a mission
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
3,794
I like your points. However, I dislike this last one. It's true for most people. It's also true that most people will not give a true 100% day after day. I've seen people who dream big and commit even bigger and pull off the most amazing things that truly have made a huge difference in this world. (And inspired a lot of others to make a difference, so if you count the ripple effects one person can make a huge difference.)
 

Nonpareil

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
268
MBTI Type
INTJ
Those are all wise words ps646566! I know what you are saying and I think inheriently I know all this. The thing is actually living it.

I would like to read more about what you think we, INTJ's need to know and your opinion on life in general.

Can I ask? What do you consider as substantial life experience? Because I think that it's not about age that gives a person experiences but the amount/quality of experience they have in their life.

Just because someone is (for example) 60, does not mean he/she has more experience than a 25 year old (for example) who had a difficult life and has been living on his/her own since he/she was 14. Some of us grow up faster and learn a lot more from our experiences and some of us don't. I'm just curious what you view as life experience...

Thanks.
 

ps646566

New member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
32
MBTI Type
INTJ
I'm not 60 yet, but well on the way ! I guess I meant relatively substantial life experience, on the supposition that the majority of the forum users will be younger. Age does correlate closely to life experience, though I accept that what people have done, and specifically experienced in their lives, has a significant bearing as well. Life experience is like any other form of experience -- the more you do it the better you should get at it. But then again some people just get into bad habits and never lose them, regardless. A lot of the experience that I can call on emanates from 35 years working in a very large, and generally unforgiving, bureaucracy.

Your point about it being a lot easier to say these things than to live them out is well made, and of course very true. I wish that I had had more of a helping hand in that respect in my youth. But forums like this did not of course exist then. Even so, some things will not change us just by being said to us -- we just have to learn by experience, often the hard way.

The other poster's comment above about my last bullet point is fair enough. If people believe that they are making a difference then all well and good. However I think that many people try to make a beneficial difference but get progressively frustrated. My point was intended to convey that if you are one of those people -- and arguably this personality type is predisposed to the problem -- then try not let it ruin your life. In other words -- Don't Worry; Be Happy !
 

ptgatsby

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,476
MBTI Type
ISTP
In other words -- Don't Worry; Be Happy !

Hear that dear (Non)? :D

Anyway, I'm curious to hear how, in theory, an over protected and thus life-experience limited INTJ could gain broad experience after the fact... What would you suggest going out and doing? Everything? Anything in particular?

Or perhaps, even better, when you think back over your life, what are the things you remember the most? What past experiences defined you... or what do you regret not doing?
 

Nonpareil

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
268
MBTI Type
INTJ
Hear that dear (Non)? :D
I hear it loud and clear dear! I'm not worried, I just don't know how to be happy.

Anyway, I'm curious to hear how, in theory, an over protected and thus life-experience limited INTJ could gain broad experience after the fact... What would you suggest going out and doing? Everything? Anything in particular?

If you are wondering, pt is talking mainly about me. I have been over protected and sheltered from most (if not all) life experiences. Before I was 19 and broke free, I didn't know or experience anything outside of what my family let me. I'm now quite lost and confused about who I am and what I'm suppose to do.

Or perhaps, even better, when you think back over your life, what are the things you remember the most? What past experiences defined you... or what do you regret not doing?

Pt is quite worried about me and I just want to learn and grow. I, too am curious what are advice you have and what experiences you benefited most from ps646566?

Thanks
 

developer

New member
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
117
MBTI Type
INTJ
Any other suggestions, especially from those who have substantial life experience ?

I am approaching 50, and I can only applaud you for your post. This is one of the smartest things I have read lately. Could somebody, please put this post into a time machine and send it to my address, like, 30 years back ?

Si jeunesse savait, si vieillesse pouvait.....
 

ps646566

New member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
32
MBTI Type
INTJ
If you don't know how to be happy then it might be due to non-clinical depression, rather than personality trait as such, (though I suspect that there are connections there which are not fully understood). Have you tried or thought about St John's Wort ?

I can't pretend to have had an unsatisfactory or particularly difficult life in the material or the practical sense. But it has been one with at least its fair share of angst -- often without real foundation. I have found however that by trying to progressively adopt the 'principles' that I describe above, the irrational angst has tailed off significantly over the years.

Personality classification etc appears to be far less well known over here than in N America, and I suspect that most Brits, outside the expert fields, would not have a clue what MBTI etc is. Jargon like INTJ does nevertheless represent a convenient way of pigeon-holing people who share certain characteristics and therefore potentially similar inherent advantages/disadvantages in life. I'm sure that part of my failure to be as contented and fulfilled as I should have been, particularly in my younger days, was due to a being of a relatively 'non-optimally-adjusted' personality type. Some of the ways that I learned to deal with it may therefore be of some benefit to others sharing similar traits. If not, well it's an interesting discussion anyway !
 

Haight

Doesn't Read Your Posts
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
6,232
MBTI Type
INTj
• Don’t get too preoccupied with believing yourself to be special or different.
Wow. What will I do with all the free time. . . . Hm. . .

• It therefore helps to train yourself to think before speaking, and to hold back when the likely adverse consequences outweigh the beneficial ones (and let’s face it we should be good at figuring that one out).
*checks off list* Done!

• It helps to accept that you can’t have it all ways – be philosophical.
Another big time saver.

• Other people’s stupidity, laziness, incompetence, and insincerity will no doubt frequently surprise, irritate, and depress you.
Sing it, preacher man.

• Secondly learn to pick targets carefully and (at least sometimes) snipe from behind chimneys rather than going in all-guns-blazing.
*checks off list* Done!

• Most people judge others on a fairly superficial basis, especially initially. So getting on better with people can to some extent be a forced exercise, with a few old tricks :- smile, give a firm handshake, make deliberate eye contact, remember names and use them, indulge in small talk and crack a few jokes. These things do not necessarily come naturally, but they can be self-trained with a bit of effort.
*checks off list* I learned that lesson around age 20.

• Don’t try to be what you’re not
Sorry my friend, but that's bad advice.

If I were to be what I am at all times, then I would never leave the house, because what I am is a hermit/recluse. And although that idea is very appealing - the bit about staying home all the time - it's a drain on the funds, if you know what I'm saying.

Besides, the chameleon trait is there for a purpose and it should be used to its fullest, IMHO.

• People with less intellect, but other ‘attributes’, such as persuasive charm, bullying ability, or animal cunning will use these to steal a march on you, often successfully. Again, be philosophical.
Don't let them. That's my rule.

Again, learned that one around age 20. Your personality is such that those types try to take advantage of the quiet, shy, and passive INT personality. However, letting someone take advantage of you is weak. And no INTJ is going to allow the weak to prevail over them. . . are they?

• Chances are that little that you ever say or do will make any significant difference. Wanting to change the world for the better is a worthy aim of youth, but it will only lead to disillusionment if carried too far into adult life. And anyway let’s be logical and realistic -- how many people ever really do make a significant difference ?
Here's your answer:
after all we apparently represent only 2% of the population
So I guess you have to be older than me for the "disillusionment" to end. :devil:
 

Nonpareil

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
268
MBTI Type
INTJ
If you don't know how to be happy then it might be due to non-clinical depression, rather than personality trait as such, (though I suspect that there are connections there which are not fully understood). Have you tried or thought about St John's Wort ?

That's the thing, I don't know how to explain it. It's not depression, it's the lack of identity. When I say I don't know how to be happy, I'm saying, I don't know when and if I'm happy. When you have lived (in my case), most of my life being told how I should act, think and behave, you lose the sense of who you are and what you really want.

That's why I say I don't know how to be happy. I am still trying to find out what I enjoy - what really makes me happy.

This is coming from a lost INTJ, with tons of opinions and even more large dreams....I need to find me, find my balance and then grow.

Can you expand on your experiences for me? Or PM me....if you are curious, you can read my blog to get a better insight of me, I am working on opening up there and sharing my life experiences.
 

ps646566

New member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
32
MBTI Type
INTJ
Sorry my friend, but that's bad advice.

If I were to be what I am at all times, then I would never leave the house, because what I am is a hermit/recluse. And although that idea is very appealing - the bit about staying home all the time - it's a drain on the funds, if you know what I'm saying.

Besides, the chameleon trait is there for a purpose and it should be used to its fullest, IMHO.

...

Again, learned that one around age 20. Your personality is such that those types try to take advantage of the quiet, shy, and passive INT personality. However, letting someone take advantage of you is weak. And no INTJ is going to allow the weak to prevail over them. . . are they?

Here's your answer: So I guess you have to be older than me for the "disillusionment" to end. :devil:

Re not trying to be what you are not, obviously this cannot be applied indiscriminately because of the realities of life. What I meant was 'to the extent possible', which is why I specifically mentioned non-work situations where there may be more choices available. But I rather think that you knew that, :)

Just to put things in perspective, as a matter of fact my temperament is not especially shy, and certainly not passive or quiet. I do not appear to be the typical INTJ, though I test that way. The 'J' is weakish though, which may help to explain it ?
 

Haight

Doesn't Read Your Posts
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
6,232
MBTI Type
INTj
What I meant was 'to the extent possible', which is why I specifically mentioned non-work situations where there may be more choices available. But I rather think that you knew that, :)
:D

Just to put things in perspective, as a matter of fact my temperament is not especially shy, and certainly not passive or quiet. I do not appear to be the typical INTJ, though I test that way. The 'J' is weakish though, which may help to explain it ?
I'm not sure about that. I would think that it has more to do with E/I. For example, I know three INTJs; one is passive with a weak J and strong I; the second isn't shy or passive, but is somewhat quiet - he picks his targets carefully, in other words - with a strong J and a weak I; the third one is quiet, described as shy by others, and passive aggressive with a weak J and weak I.

But then, what the hell do I know.
 

ps646566

New member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
32
MBTI Type
INTJ
:D

I'm not sure about that. I would think that it has more to do with E/I. For example, I know three INTJs; one is passive with a weak J and strong I; the second isn't shy or passive, but is somewhat quiet - he picks his targets carefully, in other words - with a strong J and a weak I; the third one is quiet, described as shy by others, and passive aggressive with a weak J and weak I.

But then, what the hell do I know.

Well, you know more than I do ! I'm a complete rookie where this MBTI stuff is concerned, and am pleased to read any sensible opinion. For what it's worth my scores came out as I 72% N 88% T 62% J 47 %. I can relate to much of the INTJ conventional wisdom, but not to the 'passive' stuff. One of my problems has been lashing out too strongly and too freely, though I've learned to mostly control it in latter years.
 

Haight

Doesn't Read Your Posts
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
6,232
MBTI Type
INTj
One of my problems has been lashing out too strongly and too freely, though I've learned to mostly control it in latter years.
Well, that probably has to do with that weak T you got there. :devil:
 
G

GirlAmerica

Guest
I am borderline J/P.....I am neither shy nor passive in the least.
I just have to give a damn to involve myself.
 

ps646566

New member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
32
MBTI Type
INTJ
I am borderline J/P.....I am neither shy nor passive in the least.
I just have to give a damn to involve myself.

Yep, I can relate to that. It's all shades of grey -- nothing to do with the workings of the human mind is straightforward or clear cut.
 

GZA

Resident Snot-Nose
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,771
MBTI Type
infp
I like your points. However, I dislike this last one. It's true for most people. It's also true that most people will not give a true 100% day after day. I've seen people who dream big and commit even bigger and pull off the most amazing things that truly have made a huge difference in this world. (And inspired a lot of others to make a difference, so if you count the ripple effects one person can make a huge difference.)
Yah, I was thinking that the last point is kind of funny because I think that the attitude that the world can't be changed or that its too big or that there are few who can do it (sorry, I can't remember exactly what you said) is probably the number one reason few people are able to make a difference like they hope they can at some point in their life. I have little life experience in this, but I don't see why someone shouldn't go after that if thats what they want to do, and I don't see why someone couldn't do it with a lot of work and some luck (which also happen to eb things you need to be otherwise succesful).
 
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