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[INTP] INTPs. How do you experience your Inferior Fe?.

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
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594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Inferior Fe:
- Emo explosions if pressured
- Hypersensitivity to the "demands" of others
- Skewed sense of what people expect


Inferior Te:
- Obsessive perfectionism with tasks, to get them "just right" and not let people down
- Drops feelings to go into list/functional mode
- Can't let things go

When you enter the inferior unhealthily, you basically have gotten "shoved" there because your primary and secondary are not successfully coping with the situation.

hence, you tend to lose the strengths of the primary/second, and your weak inferior is all on its own. It's like seeing a two-year-old using that function.

INTPs, feeling hypersensitive and like people are demanding things from them, will want to withdraw. The legendary "explosions" don't occur unless they can't get away, but pretty much even someone just ASKING them to do something feels like now they can't say no and that they've been enslaved. The Thinking function no longer can evaluate the data coming in, so Fe is all on its own and is used as a wall or a weapon to fend off seemingly demanding people.

Normally flexible INFPs become anal-retentive and finicky. They can work obsessive hours on a task they feel incapable of completing, down to the detail level just like an INTP might obsess over the fine points of a theory. They also can no longer bring their warm Fi skills in to help, so they tend to seem more detached and focused on "get 'er done". I don't quite grasp it, maybe an Fi person can answer this one better.
 

Xenon

(blankpages)
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
832
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INTP
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5
I definitely relate also to the being judged by your family as "not caring".
For example, my mother and I always kinda get at each other's throat and the problem is usually a Fe related problem. I don't communicate in her language so it can be perceived i don't care but i do. I show it by usually trying my best to help out or recognize when she needs help with something.

The Fe communication barrier usually involves me being scolded
" you saw me carring that, why didn't you help me?" " never mind i can do it myself" *does a dramatic motion of doing it herself to make her point etc*
*gotten alot more attentive i gladly can say*

.But the problem with it was to me and can you tell me if you relate to this if possible :) it seems like manipulation to me and i don't want to do "it" if i'm just being manipulated into doing it. My point is "why can't it be asked for if you don't see me noticing? / instead of scolding me and accusing me of "not caring" lol. If someone doesn't ask for help i assume they don't need it. Guess not :doh:.

Oh my Godthat sounds too familiar. :D I have the same kinds of arguments with my mother. I'm quite sure she's ISFJ, and she doesn't understand that it often doesn't occur to me to help out unless I'm asked to. I tell her I'd be glad to help out if I'm asked, but she keeps insisting I "should do it without asking". I also get irritated because it seems like she's manipulating or testing me.

With me I'm pretty sure it's a combination of low Fe and Se (I seem to have very low use of both). So often I won't even notice that a chore needs to be done, or that she's actually doing it. I could be sitting at the computer and hearing the dishes bang around in the sink, but it doesn't fully register that she's doing the dishes, let alone that she might like some help. More likely, I'd be absorbed in an online article or game and vaguely aware of the sound of the dishes. I might think something like, "Huh. Clankity clank." and then my attention drifts right back to the contents of my computer screen. Then later she may get irritated with me. "Come on. How could you not notice? Are you deaf?"

Another source of misunderstanding seems to be how to respond when someone is upset or bothered about something. Like others have described, I'm not sure what to do if there isn't any solution or analysis or facts to be stated. I often hold myself back from a person if I'm worried something else might be needed. I don't really "get" comforting. I mean, I can understand why someone would want it, but I don't get how to do it. My mother seems to want me to say cliched things like "It'll be okay" when she's talking about something she's worried about. I don't want to say something unless I know it to be true. If I don't know how things will turn out, why make a declaration about it? I also hate it when people say those things to me. It seems condescending and fake.

I have a hard time figuring out how to act in more relaxed social situations as well. I can chat casually with people, but I have a hard time moving it to the next level, knowing when and what to self-disclose, how to respond to their self-disclosures, etc.

I've questioned myself whether I'm more INFP (if I'm not INTP, that would be my next guess). I've been told I'm an expressive writer (when I decide to be), and I know the stereotypes are "INTPs don't understand their own feelings well" and even "INTPs don't have very strong feelings". I definitely do, so that part of the description doesn't fit. On these boards, people seem to type expressive writers as Fs.

Apparently it's common for INPs to have a hard time deciding if they are Ts or Fs. If you do a google search for "INTP or INFP" you'll find lots of discussion.

Oh, and I'd also be interested in hearing about what inferior Te might be like.
 

Grungemouse

Widdles in your cream.
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
577
MBTI Type
INTP
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5
Inferior Fe:
INTPs, feeling hypersensitive and like people are demanding things from them, will want to withdraw. The legendary "explosions" don't occur unless they can't get away, but pretty much even someone just ASKING them to do something feels like now they can't say no and that they've been enslaved.


Haha, that explains it for me then. I go out of my way to avoid being cornered in these situations. I think it's only happened once and that was during an argument with my mother. Try escaping the interrogations of an ESTJ when you live under the same roof, and her authority.

"You're an adult now, act like one."
"Yeah, well you're menopausal!"

...Never again will I make the same mistake. O__O;

Blankpages said:
Apparently it's common for INPs to have a hard time deciding if they are Ts or Fs. If you do a google search for "INTP or INFP" you'll find lots of discussion.

I've heard about an unwritten rule, where if you've narrowed yourself down to IP/INP and can't decide from there, chances are you're INFP.
 
Joined
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It's just that ultimately you either run off an Fi valueset or a Ti valueset. In terms of "look and feel," a lot about INxPs looks alike, especially if they operate socially in Ne mode.

Because Ti's derive their valueset from the external world, those with similar depth of Ne will tend to have similar valuesets.

However, Fi people have more variety in their valuesets, so you can find quite a range... especially if religious influences were involved.

(Note: Religion can have a profound impact on expression and prioritization of F values even in T people -- religion is a set of imposed values that controls and regulates behavior, which emulates F-style behavior.)



Definitely when you do not conform to your mother's idea of social/relational norms, she will think you do not care. (Fe actually can be flexible -- ESFJs will shift with changing social norms far more readily than ISFJs, because ISFJs run primarily off Si which "anchors" their values against a changing world while ESFJs will more likely accommodate whatever social norms are prevalent.) But Fi's can accuse people of "not caring" as well -- I have a bear of a time with ENFPs who use Fi to steer their Ne intuitions; they can quickly become inflexible and unable to see things in new ways, because they don't want to (their Fi refuses to budge).




I didn't look at your type, but that sounds like a Ji thing... it's part of being introverted. Extroverts live in the external world, that's where everything happens for them; introverts are like little "separate worlds" walking around, and we have to make effort to engage, it's NOT the default. We assume that if people want us, they will ask or engage; and if not, then they won't. The onus is on the person who wants something, far more for introverts than for extroverts.



See, I was far more apt to sit there and smile warmly at them... but not really engage, I just had no idea what to do, and I would smile so that at least people knew I was positively disposed towards them! But it was all "learned" signals, I was teaching myself how to communicate my feelings in ways people could read, not just doing it naturally.

i did far better with my kids after they got older and could intellectually engage and verbally articulate their feelings. I couldn't just relate to them easily as "little people," I do better when I can interact with them as "little minds." This has been changing for me over the years as I gain experience, but has been hard work.



I don't know, exactly. It's like there is a "translation" going on. I think that Fi's engage directly on an emotional raw level. I feel like I'm constantly "gathering data" rather than understanding the raw cues on their own. Then I process it, decide what it means, decide how I want to respond, then translate it back. It's very much like I'm behind one of those little plexiglass walls where you have to slide something in through the tray where I get it, read it, then send something back; you can see me, we can see each other, we can smile and talk, but there's still this barrier and/or process there through which information flows and has to be translated. My rational process is intuitive for me; my relational process is not.

You probably cannot really recognize this, at this point in my life -- I have had lots of experience as an adult in relationships and use my Ne to empathize and imagine and interpret, so all this happens in a split second... but there is very little in a communication that is unconscious for me, it is ALL calculated and thought through and consciously chosen.

I feel like F people make all these assumptions about the relationship and have to question their impersonal logics, while T people assume the basics of their impersonal logic and question their relational processes. Either they remain impersonal, or they consciously have to "be warm" in order to project warmth.

I'm gone until tomorrow probably, but I will respond to anything else you write even if I can't get to it today. :)



yes, that's exactly the same thing! I've had the same issues with mentally handicapped people -- it's not that I want to feel ill-at-ease or am prejudiced or cold, I just don't know... what ... to do. :(

And then I watch my my FP friends just go right up and engage people like that without thinking twice and all this warmth just pours out of them. I had an ISFP roommate who worked with troubled kids, and she was amazing. She had some REAL issues thinking rationally, honestly, we had a bunch of conflicts ourselves; but in that setting, she could do things I could never do.

I don't get it. I have trouble exuding warmth unless I can articulate it through my ideas.

Hi Jennifer thank you :D
What did you mean for Ti by:
"those with similar depth of Ne will tend to have similar valuesets."
I think it's the similar depth part that i'm curious
about. Similar depth? :).

oooh that must be my problem then the Ji
dominant not Fe possibly *as i've just read
what you wrote about Fe inferior and it
does seem strikingly like what
i've been going through and my reactions hmm. *

But i find I agree with Grunge mouse's reaction in the sense that
sometimes i'll go over contemplation of severing ties, etc.
I think i've been in this phase for abit of time possibility.

When you say F people question their impersonal logics.
I notice i have worked really hard at developing and
harnessing my Impersonal logic. I even pride myself on it
as i have had to really work and practice with it.

When i'm in a relationship *generally* i will do what you
said pretty much I'll take in information, look it over,
figure out what their intentions are, if their be honest
with me. I also look over a questionable behavior
*if there is one* and see if it could lead to a
situation i don't want to be apart of.
Just like the plexiglass wall you mentioned.

If i feel i only have a piece of the puzzle i'll wait
and keep that information in mind and if i see
anymore questionable behavior or something i
feel i should be concerned over that's when
I hand it over to Ji to look it over.
Assuming this is Ji too. Evaluating information/processing it.

Like for example a guy i was dating 2-3 yrs ago, I saw
some signs that this person had some problems with
control *being controlling* and where it could lead.
Like if he's doing this and this, it could lead to this.

" I feel like F people make all these assumptions about
the relationship and have to question their impersonal
logics, while T people assume the basics of their
impersonal logic and question their relational processes."

I notice I relate to your FP friend when i meet others.
I could be also logical too actually so that's where the trouble
starts. Pretty hard but I might see a leaning towards F over T
just they are neck and neck so it's really hard.
Fe inferior really seems to be a possibility.

Thank you Jennifer for taking the time to
explain INP also as well as INTP/INFP.
It's very helpful in understanding all
this type stuff.
:newwink:
 

JocktheMotie

Habitual Fi LineStepper
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
8,491
I always kind of thought that my inferior Fe was acting up (under stress) when I would suddenly become paranoid about what others thought of me. I would somehow randomly get the idea that someone didn't like me, and I'd feel sulky about it until I regained my senses. I would also get paranoid that my friends were ignoring me or willfully being mean to me, and I'd be a little angry about it for a while until realizing that it was just a phantom of my brain.

Does anyone else experience inferior Fe this way?

I can relate to this a lot. I'll start looking too far into things and develop a hypersensitivity to certain actions or perceptions of others, and think I was the victim of some type of imperceptible maliciousness. Still have it from time to time, even from people close to me.

Inferior Fe:
- Emo explosions if pressured
- Hypersensitivity to the "demands" of others
- Skewed sense of what people expect



INTPs, feeling hypersensitive and like people are demanding things from them, will want to withdraw. The legendary "explosions" don't occur unless they can't get away, but pretty much even someone just ASKING them to do something feels like now they can't say no and that they've been enslaved. The Thinking function no longer can evaluate the data coming in, so Fe is all on its own and is used as a wall or a weapon to fend off seemingly demanding people.


This sounds accurate too.

I will say though, that I do not know how Fe manifests itself in me positively. I mostly associate its presence as negative, because it usually leads to negative thoughts, negative actions, etc.

I don't even know how to fix it.
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
1,844
MBTI Type
INFP
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6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Inferior Fe:
- Emo explosions if pressured
- Hypersensitivity to the "demands" of others
- Skewed sense of what people expect


Inferior Te:
- Obsessive perfectionism with tasks, to get them "just right" and not let people down
- Drops feelings to go into list/functional mode
- Can't let things go

When you enter the inferior unhealthily, you basically have gotten "shoved" there because your primary and secondary are not successfully coping with the situation.

hence, you tend to lose the strengths of the primary/second, and your weak inferior is all on its own. It's like seeing a two-year-old using that function.

INTPs, feeling hypersensitive and like people are demanding things from them, will want to withdraw. The legendary "explosions" don't occur unless they can't get away, but pretty much even someone just ASKING them to do something feels like now they can't say no and that they've been enslaved. The Thinking function no longer can evaluate the data coming in, so Fe is all on its own and is used as a wall or a weapon to fend off seemingly demanding people.

Normally flexible INFPs become anal-retentive and finicky. They can work obsessive hours on a task they feel incapable of completing, down to the detail level just like an INTP might obsess over the fine points of a theory. They also can no longer bring their warm Fi skills in to help, so they tend to seem more detached and focused on "get 'er done". I don't quite grasp it, maybe an Fi person can answer this one better.

hmm...I can be pretty perfectionistic and get frustrated with myself.
Like with math, oh boy if i can't figure out one problem I won't be able to move onto other math problems cause that one is bothering me so much lol.
*Sounds like Te inferior hmm...*

But then i can see with my mother relationship with me and how it's been strained that description of Inferior Fe up there explains it all. Definitely recognize a hypersentivity to others demands and a skewed sense of what people expect even. I'll even engage my Ne in it " I bet they want this and this from me or to use me.

Can the withdrawal happen when that person has manipulated you quite abit and now your just untrusting of them if they ask you to do something?

i'll speculate sometimes " i bet blank wants to control me and doesn't like that i have my freedom/freewill". I'll even think of the future and when she ages and how it's going to be.

Like " i know how she is, she's demanding, it's always got to be her way and I surely would not be able to have her life under the same roof with me again."

" She'd be expecting me to wait on her hand and foot like i did my teen years *Confirming through Si* and be very critical and negative eventually leading me being very drained etc.

I go on the rants sometimes when i remember a certain memory or she'll do her little "test" with me which i think brings it out *Fe inf. it seems* and it reminds me just how resentful I am of the situation and then it occurs. I'm trying to rise above as to better myself through growth and understanding.

I guess that's how i see it. this is usually when i'm in a really bad place and resentment is being triggered which i think triggers my Inferior which i'm thinking might be Fe even more so now. Trying so hard to not let it get me, very hard to bite my tongue.

Well that's how i see it and experience it.

And woah Blank pages, I definitely relate to your style of dealing with it.
My mother says the same thing *ISFJ XD*

" i shouldn't have to ask" or the when there all done with what
they needed done then they say " you know you could of helped me. I really had a hard time doing it and could of used your help but never mind i'm used to it".

This will trigger me to say " why didn't you ask then if you were having so much trouble?" then "i shouldn't have to ask" as i mentioned above.
I say " well how can i know if you need help if you don't tell me? I saw you working on it and you seemed to be having no problems so i let you be. *apparently i suck at people reading in that sense XD*
her " i'm not having this discussion" :doh:.

Oh and that computer story, been there lol. So into what your doing, your just not paying attention *Se coupled with Fe*. I understand your pain hehe.

Thanks Blankpages and Jennifer/ everybody else too. I haven't seen the other posters yet. Getting to it :hug:.
 

Spamtar

Ghost Monkey Soul
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
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The legendary "explosions" don't occur unless they can't get away, but pretty much even someone just ASKING them to do something feels like now they can't say no and that they've been enslaved. The Thinking function no longer can evaluate the data coming in, so Fe is all on its own and is used as a wall or a weapon to fend off seemingly demanding people.

Yeah like a cornered animal. But I see this as "Shaddow Function Fi" not Fe (which seems pretty happy go lucky doesn't pop in quiet enough as I would like)

Other person: No man, you can't leave, you’re gonna listen to me and do what I say.

INTP: Get out of my way NOW asshole. You DONT wanna make me angry!

Other person: (looks at INTP in the eyes and decides its best to give INTP a walkthrough berth)

(other person moves out of way. INTP calls on the phone an hour later. "Sorry I got a bit upset there. You kinda saw my dark side. I will get that task performed by the end of the week. Cheers!")
 

MacGuffin

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Under stress I lose all sense of reason and proportion and act stupidly. After, I feel sick to my stomach.
 

Spamtar

Ghost Monkey Soul
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Under stress I lose all sense of reason and proportion and act stupidly. After, I feel sick to my stomach.

I feel great when it happens (the break though point not stress in general). Just a bad hangover after. Like Mescal.
 

Salomé

meh
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I can relate to this a lot. I'll start looking too far into things and develop a hypersensitivity to certain actions or perceptions of others, and think I was the victim of some type of imperceptible maliciousness. Still have it from time to time, even from people close to me.




This sounds accurate too.

I will say though, that I do not know how Fe manifests itself in me positively. I mostly associate its presence as negative, because it usually leads to negative thoughts, negative actions, etc.

I don't even know how to fix it.
Damn, yes, this. It sucks. I associate this with Ne malfunctioning though, not Fe. Mostly because it's still entirely rational, if bordering on paranoid.
 

dorcus0

New member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Messages
40
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INTP
hmm...interesting.

How do you examine it? like the notes or is there an emotional response when you listen to it while examining it? maybe not your typical emotional response just more that your examining it relation to your mood perhaps?

:) Thanks.


I look for the mood of the music. You can generally tell if a piece of music is sad or happy. Of course, there are many finer distinctions than just "sad" or "happy". Perhaps I should show instead of tell. I don't really watch music videos, since I prefer to analyze the music of the composer without the bias of the video director.

For example, I know I'm in trouble when I listen to this for hours on end (it's very good music, except it's depressing and I can't stand to hear it often):
http://www.youtube.com/v/mWngUlCsM2w

This is a more contemplative. Somehow, the singer's voice makes this song a bit uplifting:
http://www.youtube.com/v/c_elY-8pZOA

This is "my song", if there is such a thing. An epic song about redemption and cheating the devil (which I can somewhat relate to):
http://www.youtube.com/v/WNfEOwMZMmU
And lyrics, which really are worth reading:
KAMELOT - MEMENTO MORI LYRICS

And for a happy but still contemplative mood, I go for psychedelic trance:
http://www.youtube.com/v/nIEeCngVr7w

When I'm brainlessly happy, I listen to brainless house music (the song itself isn't brainless, but the album gets repetitive). I also don't really listen to the lyrics:
http://www.youtube.com/v/NVob4LtkCB8


Holy crap, this is the most I've reflected on my emotions in the last few months. If I have the time and if you're still interested, I'll add more examples.
 
Last edited:

dorcus0

New member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Messages
40
MBTI Type
INTP
Inferior Fe:
- Emo explosions if pressured
- Hypersensitivity to the "demands" of others
- Skewed sense of what people expect


Inferior Te:
- Obsessive perfectionism with tasks, to get them "just right" and not let people down
- Drops feelings to go into list/functional mode
- Can't let things go

When you enter the inferior unhealthily, you basically have gotten "shoved" there because your primary and secondary are not successfully coping with the situation.

hence, you tend to lose the strengths of the primary/second, and your weak inferior is all on its own. It's like seeing a two-year-old using that function.

INTPs, feeling hypersensitive and like people are demanding things from them, will want to withdraw. The legendary "explosions" don't occur unless they can't get away, but pretty much even someone just ASKING them to do something feels like now they can't say no and that they've been enslaved. The Thinking function no longer can evaluate the data coming in, so Fe is all on its own and is used as a wall or a weapon to fend off seemingly demanding people.

My I and T functions are strong preferences. Maybe that helps me say "no, fuck you" when some people make requests of me. I have had peers take advantage of my willingness to help in group projects during middle school, and since then I've learned to stand my ground. My default now is to say "I'll see what I can do", or "no guarantees".

I do get emo explosions when I get put under pressure - I try not to bottle my emotions up now. As for "hypersensitivity to others' demands", I generally take things at face value. And I do have a skewed sense of what other people expect - I think they expect what I would expect, which is almost nothing. But then again, other people have a skewed sense of what I expect.
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
1,844
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INFP
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sp/sx
I look for the mood of the music. You can generally tell if a piece of music is sad or happy. Of course, there are many finer distinctions than just "sad" or "happy". Perhaps I should show instead of tell. I don't really watch music videos, since I prefer to analyze the music of the composer without the bias of the video director.

For example, I know I'm in trouble when I listen to this for hours on end (it's very good music, except it's depressing and I can't stand to hear it often):
http://www.youtube.com/v/mWngUlCsM2w

This is a more contemplative. Somehow, the singer's voice makes this song a bit uplifting:
http://www.youtube.com/v/c_elY-8pZOA

This is "my song", if there is such a thing. An epic song about redemption and cheating the devil (which I can somewhat relate to):
http://www.youtube.com/v/WNfEOwMZMmU
And lyrics, which really are worth reading:
KAMELOT - MEMENTO MORI LYRICS

And for a happy but still contemplative mood, I go for psychedelic trance:
http://www.youtube.com/v/nIEeCngVr7w

When I'm brainlessly happy, I listen to brainless house music (the song itself isn't brainless, but the album gets repetitive). I also don't really listen to the lyrics:
http://www.youtube.com/v/NVob4LtkCB8


Holy crap, this is the most I've reflected on my emotions in the last few months. If I have the time and if you're still interested, I'll add more examples.

hehe. Cool thanks for sharing those videos. *goes to watch videos :D*

Got good taste in music D :headphne:.

yeah if you would have free time and want to, that would be cool :).
 
Joined
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Messages
1,844
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sp/sx
My I and T functions are strong preferences. Maybe that helps me say "no, fuck you" when some people make requests of me. I have had peers take advantage of my willingness to help in group projects during middle school, and since then I've learned to stand my ground. My default now is to say "I'll see what I can do", or "no guarantees".

I do get emo explosions when I get put under pressure - I try not to bottle my emotions up now. As for "hypersensitivity to others' demands", I generally take things at face value. And I do have a skewed sense of what other people expect - I think they expect what I would expect, which is almost nothing. But then again, other people have a skewed sense of what I expect.

interesting you say that about your peers take advantage of your aid.
I eventually would just turn around and say "page...blankity blank" whatever page the answer was on and make them dig for it :devil:.

hmm...bottled up emotions. I used to do that especially when i was just beginning my greiving. As soon as i would skip past songs or movie's that made me thing of it. Funny thing, anything sad i didn't like even as a kid.

My sister obviously an F, she would always listen to that real sappy depressing music. I remember being either 6 or 7 years old sitting on her floor and hearing some really sad song that would just brings feelings of sadness.
Which i immediately thought in my head " why does she listen to this stuff"
and of course followed by a wanting to get away from it cause it was making me feel all sad.

I think it took me the longest time to be able to actually sit through the song "every breath you take" without changing the song as soon as i'd here the beginning of it. Cause i didn't like digging into that part of myself.
But with my father's passing it helped alot to actually be comfortable listening to music that will help me work through my feelings.

I do have some songs that i specifically go for like for instance
"the freshmen" by the verve pipes is good for releasing angst.
*don't laugh XD* and the beginning of buck cherry's "crazy B****"
I love the yell he does at the beginning sometime's i just get this
urge to just play that part over and over where he does the
"oooooooaallllrrriiiiggggggghhhht" *and repeat it till satisfied ;)*

"I believe in a thing called love" i find i like to listen to when my energy is alittle more pumped and i just need to release it to some fast sped music.
Or " One more time" by daft punk for the same reason.

Angst:

YouTube - The Verve Pipe-The Freshman :headphne: 3:20 - 4:00 is pure angst and a great release. *fave part*

YouTube - The Darkness I believe in a thing called love (With Lyrics) the guitar and drums do it for me. perfect for any needed release of angst i always gear towards this song for some reason. 1:56 :wubbie: sweet guitar. 2:38 -3:30 drums-guitar :wubbie:.

Party/ positive mood.
YouTube - Daft Punk - One More Time (Original) [High Quality] this is usually for when i'm feeling party girlish/positive lol. *usually when i have plans with friends and looking forward to it*

this is usually what i listen to when i'm gearing toward angsty/melancholic
YouTube - Sometime Around Midnight Lyrics Love when the angsty tone picks up. 3:10 and 3:40.

" my hallelujah song" by julianne hough, is usually another positive vibe one.

Just thought i'd share too :D.
 

Eric B

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I've recently learned a lot more and gained a better understanding of the anima, thanks to more Beebe articles being made available, as I discuss on "Archetypes of the Functions". Even e-mailed him, and he sent me a copy of another one.

While the preferred functions are more confident and mature, the anima, like the puer (tertiary) is more vulnerable. Still trying to think how exactly Si is vulnerable for me; though it is definitely childlike. But then, I have come to see that it is not the "function" or "process" that is vulnerable, but rather the complex that fills the archetypal roles. That was very useful in understanding the eight-process model.

So Fe is definitely a very vulnerable area. Like others have said, very hypersentitive of what others think, easily manipulated and guilt stricken by others saying you don't care; etc. There is also a fear of punishment by others. I believe a lot of INTP's are good at hiding all of this; hence, the stereotype of being always so aloof and detached.

Also embodied in a sort of femininity, since the anima is supposed to be the opposite gender (makes me wonder how a male animus can be vulnerable for a female). I came to realize that this vulnerable, innocent female ideal image I have is from the anima. I also project it onto women, who appear innocent and like ideal mates. When they lose their "innocence", I get very upset, and it seems strange. This happened earlier this year with a friend's daughter. (Baby is due soon, found out about it in March). My wife was alarmed that I would be so upset about a teenage girl, but it's not that I wanted her myself or anything; it's just an image projected from the anima (plus it triggered memories of a very similar to a girl I liked at that age), and it explains a lot I have gone through with some women I have known over my life (and it is certainly great to have this framework to explain this latest instance).
This ideal female would likely be an Fe type, who is accepted and liked by the people around her. It's what I always wished I could be, and it always seemed that it was harder to be find that acceptance as a male, because in my environment (the inner city) males had to project this particular tough guy image to be accepted, and even then, male social image is very limited; they have to act a certain way, and it is often females who can be all lively and silly. So I have often been jealous of females in social situations.

Also, since it's introverts who tend to look more "innocent", ISxJ's do seem to fit the image more then dom. Fe types. And many around me are ISTJ's. ISTJ women do look like Fe users, because of the dom. Si retaining the conventions they have learned, such as the traditional role of women, which are stereotypically Feeling anyway; and probably also the tertiary Fi, which will look up to values.
Since some had thought I might be dom. Ne, I had to weigh this, and look at a possible Si anima. Before I understood the anima, I could not even tell the difference between what a puer or anima would be like, except for the puer developing earlier and being more distinctly associated with childlike relief. But thankfully, Beebe discusses his Si anima in a couple of his essays, and it does not match mine. His anima is represented as a Chinese laundress he knew, who is orderly and sensory. I would say my ideal female is specifically a nurturer (which ISTJ's are NOT, as will come out in their judgments).
For me, Si did develop earlier, and is more of a source for "relief", and I can see that it does fit Lenore Thomson's "tertiary temptation", while Fe seems to be associated with Femininity and is developing more now. Hence, a problem of projecting Fe innocence on ISTJ females, only to find they are not so "innocent" at all, but actually rather more closely fit the Opposing Personality (also opposite gender), because of the Te. In fact, I now realize that in the concept I was trying to express here: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/sexuality-mature-topics/14800-different-types-attraction.html, the "femininity" factor (in blue) represented the anima, and the "sexiness" factor (in red) is connected with the Opposing Personality; at least in females higher in the light red (the personality bar). They have a sort of power over men, with their wit and attractiveness, and the less light blue, the less "nice" they are about it, and hence, fitting ExTJ.
Shame my whole discovery process was actually hampered by some "expert" who basically attacked my Fe (using other people's supposed values), and then declared it to be a Senex ("critical parent" shadow) when I reacted. Just think what that does to a vulnerable anima, especially growing up with ISTJ parents for whom Fe was Trickster, and used to try to appeal to external values all the time to push me to grow. People attacking the anima like that creates a strong feeling of emasculation that conveys the sense of a vulnerable female being raped.

But just like the hero and parent are confident and mature, their shadows, the opposing personality and witch/senex are also confident and very aggressive. Fe is not that for me. Then, the vulnerable child and anima are shadowed by the trickster and demon, which are not really vulnerable themselves, but compensate for the vulnerability by being very reactive. One person I know describes them as a club used to bash the other side. Fi and Se do often fit that for me.

When INTP's have these strong "Feeling" reactions, using the familiar four process theory, they often attribute it to Fe, but it is possibly really demonic Fi. I have been saying that "function attitude" has been a bit overrated anyway, so the line between Fe as anima and Fi as demon is not as great as some may assume. Feeling is the most rejected function by dominant Thinkers, so the line will be fuzzy switching between external and internal use under stress. Beebe himself even said that the "inferior Feeling" as described by James Hillman (typical negative stuff we often report, such as "anger and desire", etc.) was more likely demonic Fi.
So attacking the anima will trigger this demonic Fi, which will try to maintain my own rightness and tear down the other person's. I don't think preferred Fi users really do that. If I'm correct, they'll say "well, that's just how you feel", and maintain their integrity in a more confident manner.

Another good key to have of Beebe's model is that functions 1/4 and 5/8, called the "spine" deal more with the ego's relation to self; while 2/3, 6/7, called the "arms" deal more with our relation to others. So our Fe is really ultimately more about us than others (though of course, it by nature directly references others). Hence, the deep down desire of acceptance by others is to support the ego. For an ExTP, in the Child position, it is more focused on others.
 
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Eric B

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INTPs, feeling hypersensitive and like people are demanding things from them, will want to withdraw. The legendary "explosions" don't occur unless they can't get away, but pretty much even someone just ASKING them to do something feels like now they can't say no and that they've been enslaved. The Thinking function no longer can evaluate the data coming in, so Fe is all on its own and is used as a wall or a weapon to fend off seemingly demanding people.
Some of that sounds a bit like descriptions of the INFP with their Fi, feeling pressured to give in, and then feeling bad afterward. Stuff like this made it hard to sort the difference.
 

dorcus0

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duchessoftheshadows said:
I do have some songs that i specifically go for like for instance
"the freshmen" by the verve pipes is good for releasing angst.
*don't laugh XD* and the beginning of buck cherry's "crazy B****"
I love the yell he does at the beginning sometime's i just get this
urge to just play that part over and over where he does the
"oooooooaallllrrriiiiggggggghhhht" *and repeat it till satisfied *

"I believe in a thing called love" i find i like to listen to when my energy is alittle more pumped and i just need to release it to some fast sped music.
Or " One more time" by daft punk for the same reason.

Angst:

YouTube - The Verve Pipe-The Freshman 3:20 - 4:00 is pure angst and a great release. *fave part*

YouTube - The Darkness I believe in a thing called love (With Lyrics) the guitar and drums do it for me. perfect for any needed release of angst i always gear towards this song for some reason. 1:56 sweet guitar. 2:38 -3:30 drums-guitar .

Party/ positive mood.
YouTube - Daft Punk - One More Time (Original) [High Quality] this is usually for when i'm feeling party girlish/positive lol. *usually when i have plans with friends and looking forward to it*

this is usually what i listen to when i'm gearing toward angsty/melancholic
YouTube - Sometime Around Midnight Lyrics Love when the angsty tone picks up. 3:10 and 3:40.

" my hallelujah song" by julianne hough, is usually another positive vibe one.

Just thought i'd share too .
Thanks for sharing =) Some of the songs I just go:wubbie: or :blush:, and some of the others I go:huh:.


A few more examples of songs:

YouTube - After Forever - Eccentric this is as angsty as is gets for me.

YouTube - Epica - The Obsessive Devotion is aggressive, melodic, and thought-provoking. 0:00-0:40 and 3:40-4:20 are some of my favorite sections. Too bad this youtube vid cuts the end a few seconds short.

YouTube - OTEP "Ghost Flowers" is about as purely aggressive as my music ever get.

It's interesting how much of the music I listen to is aggressive, instead of angsty. I remember an article in Reader's Digest (so take it with a grain of salt) stating that when women get depressed, they get depressed. When men get depressed, they get angry.


And Eric, I think I'm writing more about Fi than about my Fe. Thinking of how well I know my feeling side, I'm not too surprised.
 
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Thanks for sharing =) Some of the songs I just go:wubbie: or :blush:, and some of the others I go:huh:.


A few more examples of songs:

YouTube - After Forever - Eccentric this is as angsty as is gets for me.

YouTube - Epica - The Obsessive Devotion is aggressive, melodic, and thought-provoking. 0:00-0:40 and 3:40-4:20 are some of my favorite sections. Too bad this youtube vid cuts the end a few seconds short.

YouTube - OTEP "Ghost Flowers" is about as purely aggressive as my music ever get.

It's interesting how much of the music I listen to is aggressive, instead of angsty. I remember an article in Reader's Digest (so take it with a grain of salt) stating that when women get depressed, they get depressed. When men get depressed, they get angry.


And Eric, I think I'm writing more about Fi than about my Fe. Thinking of how well I know my feeling side, I'm not too surprised.

XD hahaha. Cool, i'm glad some made you go :huh: too lol.

oooh wow that last one was a doozy, that's some serious heavy music :D.
Middle and first were nice ones too.

Thanks for adding more vids D.
 
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