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[INTP] INTPs at the university

Forgetful Functor

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I'm curious about how some of you older INTPs did in school and what you did immediately afterward. What did you study? Did you find studying to be soul-crushing, as I do? More importantly, do you have any advice on how to deal with this? Did any of you pursue postgraduate study, and how does it compare to being an undergrad?
 

INTP

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I never went to university and not planning to go. I went to vocational school and studied to be machinist. My average was around 2.5(on scale 0-5, 0 being F), because i didnt care about that school and you can get a job with those grades as easy as with better ones. My middleschool average was about same, or bit lower. However i dont do that job enymore and atm i got this trainee job as photographer and ill try to get to photography school next year(again).

To me studuying something that im not intrested is so boring that its just not worth it.
 

brilliantwomble

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I did go to college. I just graduated in May so it hasn't been that long since undergrad. I absolutely detested studying and found most lectures to be awful. There were a few lecture classes that occasionally were decent, but not many. Discussion classes on the other hand were much better--if they people in the classes were competent. As for passing classes, I did quite well really. I mean, I have a great short-term memory so studying right before tests usually worked out great for me. That is pretty much what I did in undergrad.

Now, for postgrad, I am in medical school where studying is a lot more of a necessity. I am struggling with the studying part, but to combat my natural reluctance to study I try to find ways to make the material interesting. That way I will want to learn it rather than feel forced to learn it. I think that is the key for me. Normally I see it as a waste, but really if you like the subject matter just turn it into a theoretical discussion or a debate or whatever else gets you interested. But if studying isn't necessary to pass or achieve your future goals, go the easy route. Seriously.
 

Orangey

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I went to college as well. I eeked by my first two years, making mediocre grades and failing to accomplish much. Then in my last two years I stepped it up because I had some really good classes. The best, as brilliantwomble mentioned, were small discussion classes in the subjects that I enjoyed. The chance to compete verbally and actually talk about interesting things was a big change from the lecture style, which I completely felt it necessary to skip most of the time.

Anyway, those few good classes inspired me to go to graduate school. Now that I'm here, I find that it's just a lot more work and even fewer interesting discussions. There is at least one good seminar per semester, don't get me wrong, but I still was hoping for more independent learning opportunities. Instead we have to read a whole slew of articles each week and write stupid little papers. I get through it by reminding myself that, if I were doing this activity on my own, I'd like it. Then I just pretend like that's the case and get on with it.
 

INTP

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I mean, I have a great short-term memory so studying right before tests usually worked out great for me.

Are you sure your talking about short-term memory? Short-term memory can hold about 4 to 9 items at the time and not for long time(i think something like 5 to 10 minutes).
 

Nighthawk

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I'm curious about how some of you older INTPs did in school and what you did immediately afterward. What did you study? Did you find studying to be soul-crushing, as I do? More importantly, do you have any advice on how to deal with this? Did any of you pursue postgraduate study, and how does it compare to being an undergrad?

I went to a military school for undergrad studies. Would not recommend that for an INTP. I studied weapons systems engineering there, with a some side studies in German and military history. My career after that was as an Army officer. I didn't use much of my degree (aside from military history), as officers are mostly managers and not doers ... unless you get into specialized fields. Over time, I found that I did not like management in general, or the Army in particular, so I eventually decided to get out and change careers.

I then went to grad school for a degree in computer science, and began working as a software engineer thereafter. Unlike my undergrad degree, I make a lot of use of what I learned in grad school for this profession.

As for studying, I did find it to be a bit soul-crushing during the undergrad years. The high schoool I attended in West Texas did not prepare me at all for college at an East Coast institution ... so I had to play a lot of catch-up. I did not do well freshman year and almost failed out. Also, I was forced to study a wide array of subjects that were not necessarily in my field of interest. It basically took a lot of drive and will power, along with some degree of rote memorization. I performed much better academically during upper level studies my junior and senior years. I cannot stress enough how critical a good secondary education foundation is to progressing into college.

Grad school was a horse of a different shade. I enjoyed it immensely and did very well. The major contributing factor was that all courses were in my field of interest. Also, I decided to go to school full time rather than work and attend school part time ... although I did work as a teaching/research assistant soon after starting. I'm not saying the subject matter was a breeze, but I enjoyed studying it so much that it was never really a chore. I was 30 when I started grad school, so perhaps I'd gained some maturity since my undergrad years ... along with a new perspective on life after being in the military. I was also paying for it myself, so I had increased interest in doing well.

Hope you find what you're looking for with respect to education. I've found it to be of great help to me.
 

brilliantwomble

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Are you sure your talking about short-term memory? Short-term memory can hold about 4 to 9 items at the time and not for long time(i think something like 5 to 10 minutes).

Relative short-term memory. For nonsense material, yes, short-term memory is relatively short (less than an hour for sure.) But for learned material that makes sense, retention time is definitely longer than a few minutes. We did a test recently here at my medical school on retention times for learned material after seeing it once (so basically you study it and then put the material away and don't look at it again.) There was pre-test to set up baseline learning (basically just making sure you actually did learn the material) and then quizzes over the material given at 8 hour intervals after that. Normally people begin to forget the material in a matter of hours, but each person has a different retention rate for learned material. Of course reviewing this material helps to store it in long term memory versus relative short term.

So having a good relative short term memory process would allow someone to do better on a test within 24 hours (why cramming can work for a test, but not necessarily for long term understanding.) Those with shorter retention rates are encouraged to review the material several times in order to learn it better and remember more of it. So, yes, actual short term memory for random information is quite short. But for test material and the like that has some order or sense to it, retention time can be much longer.
 

Works

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I did well in school. I made studying a game. I tried to study the least amount of time to achieve the grade I wanted. I graduated with a 3.79 so it worked pretty well for me. Some of my non-intp friends studied all the damn time and it never seemed as though they had any fun.

Now, I teach middle school English. It's fairly enjoyable even if it seems like an odd choice for an introvert.
 

INTP

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Relative short-term memory. For nonsense material, yes, short-term memory is relatively short (less than an hour for sure.) But for learned material that makes sense, retention time is definitely longer than a few minutes. We did a test recently here at my medical school on retention times for learned material after seeing it once (so basically you study it and then put the material away and don't look at it again.) There was pre-test to set up baseline learning (basically just making sure you actually did learn the material) and then quizzes over the material given at 8 hour intervals after that. Normally people begin to forget the material in a matter of hours, but each person has a different retention rate for learned material. Of course reviewing this material helps to store it in long term memory versus relative short term.

So having a good relative short term memory process would allow someone to do better on a test within 24 hours (why cramming can work for a test, but not necessarily for long term understanding.) Those with shorter retention rates are encouraged to review the material several times in order to learn it better and remember more of it. So, yes, actual short term memory for random information is quite short. But for test material and the like that has some order or sense to it, retention time can be much longer.

Ehh, you dont know what short-term memory is..

A popular example of short-term memory is the ability to remember a seven-digit telephone number just long enough to dial a call. In most cases, unless the number is consciously repeated several times, it will be forgotten.

Addition to this is that when you repeat the number enough times(so that you remember it after putting other numbers, words or basicly enything that you think or see to short-term memory) it goes to long-term memory. Short-term memory is like computer ram, it gets overwritten all the time and when it gets overwritten those memories go to long-term memory. And how long they stay in long-term memory depends on your memory skills and importance of the learned things.

I dont know what relative short-term memory is and neither does google. I think its something that you made up to explain short memories in the long-term memory.
 

brilliantwomble

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Addition to this is that when you repeat the number enough times(so that you remember it after putting other numbers, words or basicly enything that you think or see to short-term memory) it goes to long-term memory. Short-term memory is like computer ram, it gets overwritten all the time and when it gets overwritten those memories go to long-term memory. And how long they stay in long-term memory depends on your memory skills and importance of the learned things.

I dont know what relative short-term memory is and neither does google. I think its something that you made up to explain short memories in the long-term memory.

Thank you for being my source of enlightenment.
 

VagrantFarce

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I just finished a Masters degree at university, and I hated it. I might have failed. :(
 

wildcat

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I'm curious about how some of you older INTPs did in school and what you did immediately afterward. What did you study? Did you find studying to be soul-crushing, as I do? More importantly, do you have any advice on how to deal with this? Did any of you pursue postgraduate study, and how does it compare to being an undergrad?
What a question.
Like fire and water .. but now I remember there are also good schools.
I had forgotten. I have not much personal experience of such things.

I was the best in one school .. inofficially. In another school I was the second best, at the time of graduation.
The combined time period I spent in these two schools was less than two years.

The bad schools .. how long I spent in them? I have to think .. it is 22 years. I cannot believe it. But it is true..
I spent a long time in them only because they were so very bad.


If there is a hell on earth, it is an INTP in a bad school.
You are bound to make a lot of influential enemies.
How many personal enemies I did make in the academic world?
I do not bother to count, but it must be a lot more than a hundred.
Too often, when I opened the television set, I saw one of those enemy faces. I had to give up watching the TV.
I still read the newspapers.
Well, to be truthful I didn't read them, for many years.

The faces are not there? Well .. they are there, too. They are everywhere .. but when I read the papers I do not need to hear the voices.

And I do not need to see the mimics. And I do not need to throw up so much.
Do they differ from each other? No.
Well, they are men and women, mostly men.


Why did they hate? Some of them still do. Why is the hate so intense?
Why I had such an important part in their lives?

They suffered. They were in great pain, if they had to watch me.
They did not want to hear my voice, but they had to.
Why did they elect to be teachers?
The elementary teachers love to be with children.
And the professors want be with young adults.

They are filled with their own authority. It makes them feel good. Important. Respected.

They love to hear their own voice echo in the spacey places.
High windows. Lots of marmor. Spartan pillars. Dog at home.
 

Forgetful Functor

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Wow. What dept. were you in, Wildcat, and how did you make so many enemies?

I really don't know what to do with myself at this point in time. The type of math that I have studied doesn't exactly have many real world applications... it is mostly of interest to research mathematicians and physicists, and I am finding that career path less and less attractive each day. Furthermore, my grades are nothing to be proud of so regardless of the advanced coursework I have done, graduate school might not even be available to me. Damn my strongly pronounced P!
 

kathara

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I did good in school. Graduated from two universities with BAs in Literature and Language and European Cultural Studies. I also have a MA in Literary Theory. Currently, I am undergoing two PhD programms.

Work sucks, I'd much rather be a student all my life.
 

wildcat

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Wow. What dept. were you in, Wildcat, and how did you make so many enemies?

I really don't know what to do with myself at this point in time. The type of math that I have studied doesn't exactly have many real world applications... it is mostly of interest to research mathematicians and physicists, and I am finding that career path less and less attractive each day. Furthermore, my grades are nothing to be proud of so regardless of the advanced coursework I have done, graduate school might not even be available to me. Damn my strongly pronounced P!
I studied only the compulsory math. I never reached the higher grade. I failed.
I failed also in ln every other subject.

I went back to school. I had two teachers, not only in in math.
One gave me an A, the other one gave me a C. Every time.
Advancement of the student is not a thing of the student. It is the thing of the tutor.

The best scholars are the NJs. The SJs are not far behind.
The SPs are regularly thrown out.
They get bored. No wonder. Academia is boring.

The NPs are tough. It is difficult to find the excuse to banish them.
They are diligent and keen. You cannot attack them directly. Some of them get through.

Why learning and understanding is dangerous?
College books mystificate the subject.

The scribes in ancient Egypt developed a complex writing system.
Complexity has no place in the subject of learning.
It is an art of mystification.
Mystification is not about what.
It is a thing of power.
Power belongs to the priesthood.

About math.

The thing of math is that it is not complex.
It is direct.

The NJs tend to be good in theoretical physics. Not in math.
The SPs are a lot better in math. Watch their chess play.
The NPs are beyond the pale. In math.

Bless your P.
You are the lucky one.
 

Grungemouse

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My dad is an INTP, and he went to university to study economics and political history, I think. He's currently a HR manager in the learning department of an insurance company (Hiscox). He gives presentations on MBTI, hence why I know about it now.

I'm in my first weeks of university and I'm studying English & creative writing. I like the course, but the cohabitation is what I'm finding less enjoyable. I don't mind the studying, it's the deadlines and assignments that stress me out. I manage this by simply doing a little bit of work at a time, rather than instinctively trying to finish it in one go.
 

Forgetful Functor

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I don't mind the studying, it's the deadlines and assignments that stress me out.

Yep, same. I've got four or five books checked out from the Math/Physics library here, and I'm loving them. If I spent that time on coursework instead though, I would surely be making As. It's not that I'm not motivated or interested, it's that I really have trouble learning on someone else's schedule.

I manage this by simply doing a little bit of work at a time, rather than instinctively trying to finish it in one go.

I really need to start doing this. Stress is one of the only ways that I get schoolwork done and I can feel the toll it's taking. The promise of Fall Break next week might be the only thing holding me together right now.
 

Forgetful Functor

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The NJs tend to be good in theoretical physics. Not in math.
The SPs are a lot better in math. Watch their chess play.
The NPs are beyond the pale. In math.

Bless your P.
You are the lucky one.

I've been thinking lately about how I've never been interested in the technical details so much as the theoretical and structural aspects of mathematics. The most elegant discoveries often come as reinterpreting already known truths in more abstract settings (the level of abstraction of these is exchanged for simpler expression). This is aided greatly by having NP. I'd rather learn about connections to other areas or mathematics (the fundamental theorem of algebra, for instance, can be proven in vastly different settings or 'languages' as one might think of them...) than doing routine verification of axioms or proving (which amounts basically to computing) complicated identities given by the instructor on some exam.
 
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