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[MBTI General] So hard being (mis)undestood

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
3,553
MBTI Type
ENTJ
I find myself being quite well understood when I emulate IQ levels 115-130, i.e. make myself more understandable than usual. But I don't feel so much understood at all when I'm being something more close to myself. You'd thought at the first glance I'd be flattering myself. But no, I'm just feeling sadness, mostly, and being distant from my fellow man.

There's one smart man who's humble and nice, if quite critical. I would have liked to have him as my brother. But, no such luck. Just smart bastards in my family.

And I was sad over the INFx who say they're being misunderstood. I thought being different. Some of the same stuff has become a destiny of mine, as well - at least partly.

I just think what I might have misunderstood. What if my ESTP friend is really a profoundly deep and caring person, who's way of doing things has just seemed superficial to me for no good reason?

I have sometimes felt my ESTP friend has been a person with a deeper commitment to his loved ones than I had acknowledged previously.

Likewise, there are many other errors in judgment.

I feel I'm not being misunderstood very often. For most of the part, I feel being understood for what I am. But, some misunderstandings feel bad.

I think I've mistaken my mother for a conservative person. She might not be that way. But. No matter what's one speciality, it's sad to be misunderstood.
 

93JC

Active member
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Dec 17, 2008
Messages
3,989
Are you sure you're shooting for speaking at a 115-130 IQ level? Because if that post is any indication, you're falling short...
 

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
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Sep 7, 2007
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3,553
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ENTJ
Use those smarts of yours and evaluate more of everything.

So you don't know a person beyond their last post? I guess that suffices to explain your tendencies to understand someone, which was the point in the OP. Be judged amongst those less understanding.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
3,553
MBTI Type
ENTJ
I'll hand in a bunch of clues. Frustration, drunkenness, not writing in my natural language, being misunderstood for using a literal style other than realism, etc. Good night now.
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
I find myself being quite well understood when I emulate IQ levels 115-130, i.e. make myself more understandable than usual. But I don't feel so much understood at all when I'm being something more close to myself. You'd thought at the first glance I'd be flattering myself. But no, I'm just feeling sadness, mostly, and being distant from my fellow man.

oh-my-fucking-god-you-people-discussing-intellect


Does that thread of yours, ring a bell?
 

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
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Messages
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ENTJ
Yeah, that was my frustration for people confusing all kinds of personal preferences (like the preference of liking the smell of rose) with some kind of "intelligence". I just appreciate the kind of intelligence that is known to be associated with good measurable, objective performance in something.

I'm feeling for a writer who wrote an article with ironic opinions in here a while ago. She was condemned, her opinions denounced. No clue she was writing in another style than realism - no clue of that sort from anyone in the ISTJ land. In the ISTJ land, everything is literal. All other kind of expression is cheating and terrible.

I'm beginning to wonder if the ISTJ land is world wide.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Sometimes you construct sentences in odd ways, and I have a little bit of trouble understanding you. But I can generally figure out what you mean with a few extra moments of consideration.

You know, I suppose that idea never occurred to me. That perhaps my long-term focus and tendency to imagine all possible ways of doing something... causes me to fail to find meaning in the things that most people do, when those things actually do have a deeper meaning for them because they don't depend on that perspective. Yet ironically, that perspective has changed me to such a point that I can't understand them anymore. It almost makes you wonder if intelligence can result in a form of blindness as well as a form of insight.

I suppose I prefer to believe I'm being misunderstood, because if people really understand exactly how something feels for me, what I'm like, and they just genuinely don't care at all, then... I would hate them. It's easier to believe that I'm being misunderstood than to have to hate everyone who seems not to value my perspective.

There are definitely limitations to what language can convey, though, so I do believe that a lot of disagreement is due to misunderstanding. Not all of it, perhaps, but a lot of it.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
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Messages
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ENTJ
I certainly write a lot in an odd way. I do write my professional texts in a very good way, but I have to be really anal about the correct writing - the process takes time, and it is no fun. I'm no writer of great literature, though - never. I think I've been "educated" to write in a slightly retarded way in here, too.
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
4,602
Don't mind me, I'm just a TARD. :D

But about that other thread, I was really just being lazy and I didn't read your post. I'm assuming that my comment earlier frustrated you also.
 

Matthew_Z

That chalkboard guy
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
1,256
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xxxx
And here I was thinking that language was about communication, not expression.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
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Well, I'm trying .. I could be writing sentences like
-Rock is hard
-Water is wet
-Sky is blue

..all day, but.. I'm trying something more. When I'm tired or drunk, I write in a degraded language. But still, there's some stuff I'd just expect people to understand, regardless of the correctness of the language used to express it. I've been told by more than a few persons that my English is just OK and fine - it can be understood, and it's good enough. Granted, I do distort it again and again.

My problem is really not the deficient language I write in, but my expectation for others to distinguish sarcasm, irony and realism. I'm sure that understanding all of that goes beyond petty distinctions in grammar.

Or, perhaps it's a style in fighting a sarcastic person. If the person X says the sentence: "don't everyone get smarter by eating bagels?" Person X can be quite effectively discredited by carefully examining the scientific, statistical connection between bagels and intelligence. If no-one looks at the context at which it was said, but only hears the counterarguments, person X can be made to seem quite mad.

Or, perhaps it was the person X (me, oho!) who is mad after all, for the simple reason of expecting others to recognize contexts.
 

Nizy

New member
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Jul 10, 2009
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206
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INTP
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I don't think those words mean what you think they mean.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
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Sep 7, 2007
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If my language is substandard, I'm in a hard position. I find the ideas of most everyone substandard, even if expressed in standard language. Perhaps there's a lot of people who just expect more from me than I can deliver, and a lot of people who deliver less than what I expect.
 

Matthew_Z

That chalkboard guy
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Well, I'm trying .. I could be writing sentences like
-Rock is hard
-Water is wet
-Sky is blue

Doesn't your native tongue have adjectives and articles in it? Sentences such as the ones you posted above are somewhat vague. Do you mean that a rock is hard? Do you mean that the rock is hard? Perhaps you mean that all rocks are hard. Your sentence, as written, implies that you identify rock as some sort of element and that one of the properties of this element is hardness. You may be using it to question human perception, perhaps trying to preach a lesson about assumptions ingrained into the minds of all mankind since they first existed.

However, given the irregular syntax, most people will likely mentally insert the word "the" in order to make sense of your sentence.
 

Nizy

New member
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
206
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
If my language is substandard, I'm in a hard position. I find the ideas of most everyone substandard, even if expressed in standard language. Perhaps there's a lot of people who just expect more from me than I can deliver, and a lot of people who deliver less than what I expect.

Then we shall agree to not understand or care for what each other has to say.

Good day.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
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Sep 7, 2007
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Adjectives, yes, articles, no. None at all. There's practically no articles in the Finnish language.

Yes, I sometimes have hard time deciding where to put a definite article, an indefinite article, or no article at all. A lot of other stuff is hard as well. I'm better with formal language, but I can't help but to introduce a LOT of errors if I want to portray any other tone than a serious tone.

Given the feedback, perhaps I'm not good in writing English as it was natural for me. Many native speakers make horrible grammatical errors all the way, but their errors are just the right kind. The native speakers of the language have accustomed to the kind of errors they make regularly. If I'm trying to emulate a carefree writing style, I'll probably make the wrong errors (as I do), and most likely I'll just appear dumb as a result.

Yet, I'd like to know how to write in an informal way. It's not very fun to write standardized text in a foreign language when trying to relax.

I do believe I'm mostly misunderstood for other reasons than grammar, though. Like I've said, people lack the understanding of sarcasm, irony, realism and other styles.

Perhaps I'm wrong to direct messages to a greater group, when I'd be better off with directing them at a smaller group. For example, if someone believes in MBTI like it was a word from their own personal God, my message would probably not be understood if I compared MBTI to astrology. My message would perhaps get some of those who didn't like MBTI that much, but others would just wonder about what I said.

Perhaps I'm expecting others to share my opinions when there's no actual agreement on anything.

Or, perhaps I'm relying too much on my actual opinions being known. I expect that my unusual opinion will be recognized as such; if I express an opinion W, the observant ones will recognize I've been advocating the opinion H all along, so my expressed opinion W must be a joke.

I am of course wrong to expect such things. I guess I'd have to speak to every member of the audience individually to avoid such shortcomings. That would be a chore, wouldn't it?
 
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