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[NT] NTP females and aggression

epp

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Anyways perhaps NTP girls are seen more as tomboys and therefore people stereotype them. When they do this they act towards the girl in a more aggressive way. NTP girls are just not 'girly'.
Tis just one theory

well, some of my male friends have commented that this kind of phenomenon might be due to the fact that I LOOK very feminine and maybe even a bit girly... and then argue men to the corner, bringing out all the inconsistencies they make :p
so there is sort of a contradiction to them and that might make some men insecure.

also, once a guy started to really brag and be a wannabe-alpha male... I mean, really, I had a mental image of an animal trying to somehow protect his territory... and his arguments were directly against me being a woman and therefore not knowing anything. so I listened to him for a while, head tilted to my side and ended the argument saying "yea, but mine is still bigger than yours..." (it doesn't sound that good in english, I'm afraid). somehow it shut him up and he has never tried to argue since. wonder why... :cheese:
 
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Valuable_Money

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Im a male and I get lots of male agression too.

Its called being an asshole, I just dont hide it behind my gender and call it sexism.
 

Virtual ghost

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Personally I don't mind this at all. Actually I find it attractive to some degree since I don't having too much agreebalness around. Plus I really don't mind if "average guy" ends up looking stupid.


I have studied female NTs and it looks that in most cases they are NTs first and only after that comes the female part.
 

Orangey

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I've never had a male threaten violence against me for debating (well, except one family member, but that's mostly brought on by reasons other than gender). I think the reason for this is that, in general, the only types of people I will engage in debate with are reasonably intelligent. And nobody who is reasonably intelligent will threaten people with physical violence over non-physical disagreements. In other words, I completely avoid anyone who is stupid enough to be threatened by women or by arguments with women (to the point that they'd resort to physical aggression.) The funny thing is that these types of morons are usually extremely transparent and thus easily avoided.
 

Haphazard

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well, some of my male friends have commented that this kind of phenomenon might be due to the fact that I LOOK very feminine and maybe even a bit girly... and then argue men to the corner, bringing out all the inconsistencies they make :p
so there is sort of a contradiction to them and that might make some men insecure.

I think this applies to all NT females.
 

Tewt

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well, some of my male friends have commented that this kind of phenomenon might be due to the fact that I LOOK very feminine and maybe even a bit girly... and then argue men to the corner, bringing out all the inconsistencies they make :p
so there is sort of a contradiction to them and that might make some men insecure.
e:

I look very feminine and have been called girly as well :) That's an interesting perspective.
 

Tewt

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I've never had a male threaten violence against me for debating (well, except one family member, but that's mostly brought on by reasons other than gender). I think the reason for this is that, in general, the only types of people I will engage in debate with are reasonably intelligent. And nobody who is reasonably intelligent will threaten people with physical violence over non-physical disagreements. In other words, I completely avoid anyone who is stupid enough to be threatened by women or by arguments with women (to the point that they'd resort to physical aggression.) The funny thing is that these types of morons are usually extremely transparent and thus easily avoided.

I can't really avoid some people I have worked with and because they were a dimwit I was for damn sure not going to let them run the place.
 

Salomé

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ntp females - have you noticed males reacting to you more aggressively than other types, regardless of gender?

I wonder, because I do seem to get a fair amount of male aggression directed towards me in disputes and I wonder sometimes if it is because I don't argue as others might. Where I might look like a male arguing, because I am a female, certain males (not all) have trouble with communication with a female like this. I have also noticed that those same males will be able to argue fairly with a male in a similar dispute, but will react with threatening body language or verbal assasinations when engaged with a female in disputes.

A friend of mine (intp female) has commented on much of the same, she said she thinks her style in disputes is an affront to some men.

Of course this is all with the usual disclaimers ***some men*** yadda yadda yadda.
Yes.

Men compete with each other. They don't want to have to compete with women too. They are accustomed to women appeasing and flattering them. Smiling and giggling and gawping in awe at their brilliance. The stupid ones take it as an affront to their masculinity if you try to engage with them as an equal. Especially when you know more than they do and don't have the decency to hide it.
I've encountered reactions varying from mild irritation, to sabotage, to verbal abuse to blind rage. To protect the dignity of the male ego, women are often advised to suggest things in such a way that a man believes it's his idea. Or to feign helplessness so that they can feel superior.
Fuck that. No one is going to steal my ideas and I have no interest in being helpless.

these types of morons are usually extremely transparent and thus easily avoided.
Perhaps in academia, I meet them everywhere.
 

Orangey

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I can't really avoid some people I have worked with and because they were a dimwit I was for damn sure not going to let them run the place.

Perhaps in academia, I meet them everywhere.

Yes, you are both right. I didn't take into account that there may be many other contexts in which such people would be both more frequent and less avoidable.
 

Tallulah

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I've never had a male threaten violence against me for debating (well, except one family member, but that's mostly brought on by reasons other than gender). I think the reason for this is that, in general, the only types of people I will engage in debate with are reasonably intelligent. And nobody who is reasonably intelligent will threaten people with physical violence over non-physical disagreements. In other words, I completely avoid anyone who is stupid enough to be threatened by women or by arguments with women (to the point that they'd resort to physical aggression.) The funny thing is that these types of morons are usually extremely transparent and thus easily avoided.

I usually agree with the above. But one time, I got threatened by a guy that seemed intelligent, affable, charming. He was a co-worker of mine, and I was working as a producer for the local evening news. He was an anchor, and the other anchor and I were putting together the order of news stories that would go in that evening's broadcast. He was wanting one story to go near the top or some such, and she and I joked about not letting him have a say--it was CLEARLY a lighthearted thing, but his ego wasn't having it. He asked if he could talk to me in another room. When we got there, his demeanor had completely changed. He threatened me, and told me that he was tired of not being listened to (we had never excluded him before, and this time, it was meant, by us, as a joke), and that he wouldn't be ignored, etc. etc. I said, "Hey, I'm sorry if your feelings were hurt..." and he broke me off and some macho b.s. about his feelings not being hurt, and I said, "Oh. Then this is an ego thing. Sorry, I'm not interested in having a conversation about your bruised ego." And I left the room. But I will say that he was very scary in that moment, and I'd have been scared if we'd been the only two in the building.

He seemed to be threatened by me, though I didn't see myself as a threat. He also didn't put the other anchor at fault (She was probably an xSFJ)--just me. I still get the creeps when I think about being alone in a room with that guy.
 

epp

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I think this applies to all NT females.

yes, I quite agree :)
please just notice that my last message was not me trying to say I'm special or something but actually an answer to Ragingkatsuki who said NTP girls are not girly and are seen as tomboys.

Anyways perhaps NTP girls are seen more as tomboys and therefore people stereotype them. When they do this they act towards the girl in a more aggressive way. NTP girls are just not 'girly'.
Tis just one theory
 

Tewt

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Thanks for posting that Tallulah although it sucks that it happened to you. But that illustrated exactly what I meant and what I have had happen to me before as well. Someone escalates so over the top aggressively towards you, while others have said the same thing or it's similar.
 

undeciluna

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I haven't noticed this...and this is kind of off topic, but this makes me think about a few years ago when my hours were getting cut at work. I was looking for a part time job as a barista. I was not interested in becoming a manager or anything like that, I just needed something to supplement my income. Each manager at each job I applied at talked to me like I was going to come in and try to take over the company. This one guy was going on and on about how I would have to start as a busser and wouldn't be allowed to run the cash register until he was sure my bussing skills were satisfactory. I told him that sounded fine with me and that I understood but he kept lecturing me about this. It took all I had not to roll my eyes out of their sockets.

Maybe it was coincidental...but to me it seemed like they felt threatened by my experience (I was a front of house manager at the restaurant I was working at the time). I certainly doubt that I was acting aggressively. And I know I was being extra careful not to put my foot in my mouth and say something stupid (which I've been known to do).
 

01011010

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Women arnt a statistical minority, accept in china.

While sexism is rampant, I meant individuals that don't fit into the gender binary.



i read it as "know their place" as in 01011010 doesn't necessarily feel that way, but as an objective observation.

Yes, that was the point - to illustrate that some people think that we have a place to be in. I wrote the same thing earlier.

I cosign this.
 

Katsuni

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While sexism is rampant, I meant individuals that don't fit into the gender binary.

Sooooo hermaphrodites, transexuals, eunichs and those without directly obvious gender?

That would probably be true I'm sure as well, probably even moreso than the typical male/female divide. Can see those kinda rare situations being so much more complex than the crap we already take for granted as being a pain, due to the fact that BOTH sides of the black&white view of things going against them.

Or did yeu mean something else?
 
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