[ENTJ] ENTJ's: Lucky in success, Unlucky in love

[tinkerbell]

Tink, I think you're on to something. I get the sense, after reading a lot about NT's in love, they are even more idealistic than NFs. But in a very different way. Not what I'd call the general idea of idealism, and maybe that's why, they are so hard to live up to. ?

I think when NT's start conditioning they add in SO many constraints they end up searching for dieties...

Yes it feels like an escalation of NF's ideals which are tempered in people, NT's temper in intellectualness - so you invenet unrealistic constraints. NF's are people people - so base their idealisim on plauability. NT's I think take rational qualities and because they are less adapt at people don't realise that some of those qualities don't fit together in real people.

I think Jennifers comment about NT's getting more tollerant with age is true (people generally get more tollerant)... so while NT's are being oooober fussy they potnetially miss the best matches for them.


Not that I have a solution tucked in my back pocket....

 

[Salt n' pepper]

Yes it feels like an escalation of NF's ideals which are tempered in people, NT's temper in intellectualness - so you invenet unrealistic constraints. NF's are people people - so base their idealisim on plauability. T's I think take rational qualities and because they are less adapt at people don't realise that some of those qualities don't fit together in real people.

Holy shit. I was gonna write that in my original post, that I approach relationships the same way I'd approach a huge project at work or in school. And then I apply the same principals to people, only to realize, much to my surprise, they don't work on people. The end results I want become far too unrealistic and unfair to human beings with feelings and a mind of their own.

But I didn't wanna seem stupid. Too late!

 

[tinkerbell]

But I didn't wanna seem stupid. Too late!

I'm at one with my P-ness, dont' mind looking stupid, so long as I know I'm not.

For NTJ's I'd say look at dating as skills development. You dont' expect to breeze into work and know how to do absolutely evertyhing on day one (or you would be bored by day 5).

And as Mick Jagger keeps harping on - you can't allways get what you want, but if you try sometime you get what you need - sorry that is pure CORN!

But my point being - that you living inside your head and only really understand how you see the world and not really how the world sees you. Hence you may miss out on people who have a wonderful balancing quality.

Right nowI know I have shared ground wit N types, and I think personally speaking I'd go well with more of them but probably more likely a J type to temper my P extremes - which I know will be rough on my - I'm the ultimate in naughty school girl....

But makign money in order to attract women is pretty sad.

Did you know that if you ask 8 year olds what wanted in life...

Girls say a nice kind man
Men say make lots of money.....

Women value kindess and although male ENTJ's can be abrassive in the extreme, they can also be very soft and fluffy and increadibly romantic. Ahhhh

Ok soap boxing over...

 

[Salt n' pepper]

But my point being - that you living inside your head and onyl really understand how you see the world and not really how the world sees you. Hence you may miss out on people who have a wonderful balancing quality.

This is something I need to think about, in every aspect of my life. Part of the problem is that I don't care how the world sees me. But maybe I need to, in order to be more successful in life. Man! I wish I could relate more to people!!! Is that a Fi problem? Why can't people be just a little bit more straight forward and predictable? I'm like a baboon playing around with a kitten, in the dark.
/no need to respond to this rant.

 

[tinkerbell]

This is something I need to think about, in every aspect of my life. Part of the problem is that I don't care how the world sees me. But maybe I need to, in order to be more successful in life. Man! I wish I could relate more to people!!! Is that a Fi problem? Why can't people be just a little bit more straight forward and predictable? I'm like a baboon playing around with a kitten, in the dark.
/no need to respond to this rant.

LOL

Yes wouldn't hurt to be better at realting with people generally (ENTJ's aren't bad, don't get me wrong), but it's everyones toughest challenge. THe more senior you are the more you are a leader of people (usually), so yes invest in yourself.

Is it a Fi problem, yes some NT's are better than others (some sound possitively robotically logical - ewe).

People can become an enjoyable challenge, the one thing you can count on is that they never react in a predictable fashion, the more you can understand them the easier it gets on you. It's a streach for any NT's to really be at one with people so really it's jus working on improving the function of your weaknesses. I've gone through spells of being very people orientated and then very rational and I think I need to rebalance because my next job is likely to be much more people orientted again... help!

 

[Salt n' pepper]

Is it a Fi problem, yes some NT's are better than others (some sound possitively robotically logical - ewe).

People can become an enjoyable challenge, the one thing you can count on is that they never react in a predictable fashion, the more you can understand them the easier it gets on you. It's a streach for any NT's to really be at one with people so really it's jus working on improving the function of your weaknesses. I've gone through spells of being very people orientated and then very rational and I think I need to rebalance because my next job is likely to be much more people orientted again... help!

If I got a penny for every time someone calls me mechanical, a robot (T800) or something to that effect, I'd be with an ISFJ by now!

Your dom. function is Intuition, isn't it? That does help in reading a situation in general. You'll do just fine! And it's easier in business context, I think. No one expects you to be sensitive to other peoples feelings in the same way, cause the rules are already set. It's not a secret that business is about making money and furthering your own career, pushing your own/your company's agenda, and that's way more straight forward and rational, than making a relationship work. When I know what I want in school or in my career, I, without any exceptions so far, succeed. When I know what i want in a relationship, I, without any exceptions so far, fail.

Also, what kind of job is it?

 

[tinkerbell]

If I got a penny for every time someone calls me mechanical, a robot (T800) or something to that effect, I'd be with an ISFJ by now!

Your dom. function is Intuition, isn't it? That does help in reading a situation in general. You'll do just fine! And it's easier in business context, I think. No one expects you to be sensitive to other peoples feelings in the same way, cause the rules are already set. It's not a secret that business is about making money and furthering your own career, pushing your own/your company's agenda, and that's way more straight forward and rational, than making a relationship work. When I know what I want in school or in my career, I, without any exceptions so far, succeed. When I know what i want in a relationship, I, without any exceptions so far, fail.

Also, what kind of job is it?

I worked with an ENTJ in my last job, who was such a perfectionist she would do other people's job for them, she was within a few weeks of a nervous break down, so half my issue was to calm her down, explain I thought she had an awsome future and learn that she needed to delegate and trust the outcome and know when to step in rather than picking up and do-ing... If she can nail that early on she really had nothing stopping her future. Very bright girl.

N is OK but I still have too many teeth ad people as you say dont' behave in a rational way. The type of company I'm likely to want to work in is not as hard core - they needs to be more people based than that. It's just a challenge....

 

[sunset5678]

I just hope love's like what you feel when you really have a passion for doing something challenging that you just feel drawn towards even though you really can't explain why...

 

[entropie]

There is that hand move in Black and White 2 in which you paint an enneagram like thing on the ground and suddenly a huge vulcano rises from it and starts spitting fire.

That's a thing the enneagram test could use too

 

[runvardh]

Suddenly I get this urge to mention that at least they're lucky in one of those areas...

 

[simulatedworld]

ENTJs aren't lucky in success; they're just incredibly hard workers and they strive tirelessly to get what they want.

They aren't unlucky in love, either; they're just callous pricks with little to no genuine concern for others.

 

[LadyJaye]

The only thing I've tried to do is work on my P but I find that no matter how flexible I act and how much I restrict my Judging, I still feel like I'm cheating myself trying to make something work when I know the person will never fit my standards.

I'm a P, and I still feel that way too. My criteria for a romantic relationship is high, within the realms of human comprehension, but very high just the same, and the possibility that NO ONE will fit this is profoundly deflating. But, dating people I know instantly won't work out is such a giant waste of my time and theirs. I've dated people who were great people - nothing wrong with them really - but I just couldn't extend my entire self to them. Some of my friends couldn't understand why I would cut a perfectly decent guy loose, but I just can't be with someone who isn't right. If that means I may be alone most of the time, then I'm prepared for that. You have to click with someone. It has to be right, or it's wasted effort.

 

[WoodsWoman]

They aren't unlucky in love, either; they're just callous pricks with little to no genuine concern for others.

Not in my experience. Or perhaps I have just been fortunate enough to know mature adults.

 

[Salt n' pepper]

ENTJs aren't lucky in success; they're just incredibly hard workers and they strive tirelessly to get what they want.

They aren't unlucky in love, either; they're just callous pricks with little to no genuine concern for others.

I think when I do care about someone, my concern is as genuine as it gets. I might not show it in a traditional way, or in a way you'd perceive as "caring", but I'm as loyal to you as a blind mans dog.

EDIT: I think making me care about someone, in the first place, is the hard part. It's actually more natural for me to care about causes and peoples goals, needs, dreams ect. than the actual person. If that makes any sense.

 

[neptunesnet]

Basically my main issue is this, how can I best reconcile my desire for a relationship with my inability to accept anyone who doesn't fit into what purpose they should play in my life without compromising my rigid, and often life saving system of ideals?

I know its vain to look at others solely based on what they can do for you, and I hate that I do it, but so far I haven't had too much luck with, or incentive to change my ways.

Any thoughts or perspectives would be welcome! Thanks for listening.

This may sound a little strange, but those rigid ideals are your compass.
You can intuit bad relationships before they even happen. Some people would kill for that skill! I'm probably going to get some flack for not scolding you for being too narrow-minded or something, but I think where you are right now is fine. If you go about it the way you are, you're bound to skip all the bad eggs, so to speak, and find the right one more easily. You'll find her if you just keep looking.
I do the exact same thing as an NF: detect who's right or wrong right off the bat and not wasting my time. Some people who don't understand the way I operate would say that I'm being picky, but I'd say I'm merely preventing a few poorly exchanged words and a heartache. Sometimes, I have to be careful, though, because my ideals are just too restricting; however, being too lenient will end in unhappiness on my part, so I just try to stay true to my intuition while keeping it in check.

The only advice I know to give is don't limit yourself too much but also don't compromise on your happiness.

 

[GatorGirl]

Simulated World -

I think that when we are TRULY in love, we actually care, just about that person. And try to be more conscious of it... "try"

 

[Riva]

Mmm no, no problems for me in either. Sux 2 be u.

dude the rest of the ENTJ posters just kicked your ass by agreeing with the OP.
Maybe you should take another one of those tests again.

 

[FDG]

dude the rest of the ENTJ posters just kicked your ass by agreeing with the OP.
Maybe you should take another one of those tests again.

Nah, I'm just awesome.

 

[Riva]

Nah, I'm just awesome.

that's the spirit.

 

[GatorGirl]

I think when I do care about someone, my concern is as genuine as it gets. I might not show it in a traditional way, or in a way you'd perceive as "caring", but I'm as loyal to you as a blind mans dog.

EDIT: I think making me care about someone, in the first place, is the hard part. It's actually more natural for me to care about causes and peoples goals, needs, dreams ect. than the actual person. If that makes any sense.

TOTAL sense...