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[NT] Fe and Fi, the NT version

BlahBlahNounBlah

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I'm having difficulty understanding what Fi is, and every time Fi vs. Fe is discussed in the NF forum, the distinctions get messy because they take every attempt at definition as personal attack (and in many cases, they are personal attacks).


So, For ENTP/INTP/ENTJ/INTJ, what do Fi and Fe actually do? How would I more easily recognize these functions in NTs in every day life?


Would Fi mean you care that Woody Allen married his daughter? Or would Fe care about that? Or would they care for different reasons? (Fe because it's considered destructive to society? Fi because ...? I don't know what Fi is so I don't know how to finish that, and I'm not certain I got Fe right, but I tried to imagine why I might care about that, and that was what I came up with. I don't care, by the way.)


So anyway ... a little help?
 

Orangey

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Yeah, I don't know what Fi is either. I'd like to hear more myself.
 

SerengetiBetty

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I'm curious as well...maybe Fi would be you remembering when a creepy old man asked you to marry him and projecting that onto the situation?
 

Orangey

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Oh oh, along those lines, perhaps refusing to live in a place because you had a bad experience there once?
 

Athenian200

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Here's what I've seen.

INTP, inferior Fe:

1. A sudden need for emotional support under extreme stress.
2. Building frustration finally erupting in a virulent personal attack.
3. A tendency to assume that other people's personal opinions/rules of etiquette are meant to eliminate/devalue independent thought.

ENTP, tertiary Fe:

1. An attempt to use charm to get out of trouble.
2. Concern with how others are seeing them (I know THAT one all too well).
3. A fondness for eliciting shock or strong reactions in people. Possibly a tendency to be a clown/comedian.

ENTJ, inferior Fi:

1. Stressed insistence that their way is right, even when it's been shown impractical.
2. A tendency to expect everyone to be self-motivated.
3. Tending to orient their logic in terms of what they personally want to achieve.

INTJ, tertiary Fi:

1. Emotional breakdown. Withdraws into self and dwells on the emotion until it's resolved, even at the expense of external goals.
2. Personal integrity. Will refuse to do anything that goes against their personal code of ethics, even if it benefits them (and insistence on going along with it even if it hurts them). May withdrawn from others or push them away without admitting the reason if more important parts of this code are not shared by these others.
3. Faith. A tendency to have faith in the rationality and good intentions of others until given reason to suspect otherwise.

Those are my guesses, anyway...
 

BlahBlahNounBlah

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So Fi-users freely allow past emotional experiences to color their present situations?
 

Athenian200

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So Fi-users freely allow past emotional experiences to color their present situations?

Well, FPs (especially NFPs) do. TJs try to resist it (and are somewhat successful in keeping their focus on the present/future), but it still happens when their Fi comes out strongly. This can happen with SFJs, too, though (it's more Si-driven than Fi-driven in those cases, but the result is often the same).
 

BlahBlahNounBlah

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Well, FPs do. TJs try to resist it (and are somewhat successful in keeping their focus on the present/future), but it still happens when their Fi comes out strongly. This can happen with SFJs, too, though.


Behavior that has had me puzzled is suddenly making sense to me now.
 

BlueScreen

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I'd help, but I'm still not positive anything about MBTi or functions makes any sense. As far as I know, I might just be an ENTP floating an idea to understand it. Or ENTPs might not even exist, except as a concept.

My best idea so far of Xe vs Xi is internal vs external judgments (Cognitive functions are concerned with information flow in the brain, not behaviour. Though if we define them by function tests, there is the question of whether they are the set of behavioural traits chosen, or a set cognitive processes that causes this set of traits.) On the internal vs external, I believe Fe or Te makes the judgments on the external situation directly, whereas Fi or Ti makes the judgments on the internal stuff (knowledge, etc.) and can stay detached from the external world. In the same way Ne and Se perceive the situation strongly and rely a lot on information from the situation, whereas Ni and Si can look at things detached from the external situation.

This is all a lot of guessing and throwing out ideas of what the basis might be, but from there you can work up and get an idea of what traits it might cause a person to exhibit.

T vs F seems to be a divide that doesn't make complete sense to me either, but it needs to be defined here. If we go by some definitions, a feeler makes their decisions from their emotions and values, and thinkers make their decisions from practical objective criteria. This is obviously not true for types in a general sense, because we have more than two functions to use, but applying it to a function doesn't seem too bad. So I'd guess Fe would cause you to make judgments from your emotions and values on the present situation. ie. to keep harmony, support people, hold something back so you won't hurt someone, be empathetic, make things friendly, take criticism emotionally sometimes. Most ENTPs I've met do these things. They definitely aren't an F type, but they do them well.
 
R

Riva

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gosh i was gonna start a thread like this today. what a coincidence.
carry on guys i am all ears.
 

BlackCat

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So Fi-users freely allow past emotional experiences to color their present situations?

I thought that everyone did this? :huh:

You mean you're telling me that your previous experiences with someone and the emotional impression that they left on you doesn't effect you at all every time you interact with them?
 

Cimarron

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Oh oh, along those lines, perhaps refusing to live in a place because you had a bad experience there once?
This one and the one Black Cat quoted sound as if they involve at least some Si. Fi would look different when influenced by Intuitive input, right?
 

BlahBlahNounBlah

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I thought that everyone did this? :huh:

You mean you're telling me that your previous experiences with someone and the emotional impression that they left on you doesn't effect you at all every time you interact with them?


Not particularly. I have difficulty remembering people. But I generally think that what was in the past is in the past and it's over. I might remember that someone made me mad, but I remember it almost like it happened in a book or to someone else.

I'm sure everyone has some emotional residue because it comes along with being human, but for me, using that as a valid justification for a decision seems illogical. Even if I make a decision that way, it's still logically invalid.


(However I'm an N, so I obviously recognize behavioral patterns.)
 

BlackCat

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I'm sure everyone has some emotional residue because it comes along with being human, but for me, using that as a valid justification for a decision seems illogical. Even if I make a decision that way, it's still logically invalid.

In some situations it is. It depends on the situation and decision being made. But I generally agree, I can see why T types have shit against feelers who do this sort of thing, hell I do too. I can't understand how anything constructive can come out of making a purely emotionally based decision.

In my opinion if it's something based around your relationships with people, go for it, making decisions based on emotions, because IMO the emotions are a huge part of a relationship with someone (I'm using the term broadly, it can mean any relation with someone). And I say this meaning decisions within reason. But anything else I would say it's illogical.
 

Orangey

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I have a friend who has avoided dating certain people because some quality (a lot of the time superficial) reminded her of past disastrous relationships. I could never understand this about her. Is that sort of what we're talking about here? Or is that more Si-Fi again?

She will also do things like refuse to let anyone even mention things she doesn't like. For instance, she has a universal dislike for snakes, and doesn't like it when we even mention snakes in conversation with her. At first I thought she was exaggerating for effect, but she got angry when we kept talking about it anyway. Is that sort of like Fi?
 

wildcat

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I'm having difficulty understanding what Fi is, and every time Fi vs. Fe is discussed in the NF forum, the distinctions get messy because they take every attempt at definition as personal attack (and in many cases, they are personal attacks).


So, For ENTP/INTP/ENTJ/INTJ, what do Fi and Fe actually do? How would I more easily recognize these functions in NTs in every day life?


Would Fi mean you care that Woody Allen married his daughter? Or would Fe care about that? Or would they care for different reasons? (Fe because it's considered destructive to society? Fi because ...? I don't know what Fi is so I don't know how to finish that, and I'm not certain I got Fe right, but I tried to imagine why I might care about that, and that was what I came up with. I don't care, by the way.)


So anyway ... a little help?
Good questions :)
Introverted judgement reflects within. Extraverted judgement reflects without = in the field.

I understand these people are adults. They are not related.
They are related in the field.
The field surrounds the thing. It is not in the center of the thing.
 

BlahBlahNounBlah

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She will also do things like refuse to let anyone even mention things she doesn't like. For instance, she has a universal dislike for snakes, and doesn't like it when we even mention snakes in conversation with her. At first I thought she was exaggerating for effect, but she got angry when we kept talking about it anyway. Is that sort of like Fi?


I know someone who does this too! I'm not sure, but I think she's INFP. The things that bother her are benign and easily avoidable, so I don't have a problem with not mentioning them. But then part of me thinks, if they're so benign, why bother asking people not to talk about them? But I guess they matter to her? :unsure:
 

Athenian200

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She will also do things like refuse to let anyone even mention things she doesn't like. For instance, she has a universal dislike for snakes, and doesn't like it when we even mention snakes in conversation with her. At first I thought she was exaggerating for effect, but she got angry when we kept talking about it anyway. Is that sort of like Fi?

I'm not so sure that's Fi. I have a similar thing, where I get mad if someone starts talking about a person I really hate. I'll go "Don't even mention that name around me! Do you know what they did to me? Well, let me tell you..." There's a chance I might go on a tirade about everything I hate about that person at that point. They usually don't mention the person again after that.

I usually don't get disgusted by things so much, though it can grate on my nerves if people continually talk about sex, bodily humor, and other gross/crude things. Once or twice isn't a big deal, but if they keep at it, it can get old fast. It's because I'm annoyed by the inappropriate behavior and accompanying attitude rather than actual disgust, though. I don't feel a visceral response in my gut or anything.
 

BlahBlahNounBlah

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I'm not so sure that's Fi. I have a similar thing, where I get mad if someone starts talking about a person I really hate. I'll go "Don't even mention that name around me!" Of course, there's a chance I might go on a tirade about everything I hate about that person at that point. They usually don't mention the person again after that.


What I'm thinking of is more abstract, like: "This person I hate loves clowns, so don't talk about clowns."


:shock:
 

Orangey

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I'm not so sure that's Fi. I have a similar thing, where I get mad if someone starts talking about a person I really hate. I'll go "Don't even mention that name around me!" Of course, there's a chance I might go on a tirade about everything I hate about that person at that point. They usually don't mention the person again after that.

I usually don't get disgusted by things so much, though it can grate on my nerves if people continually talk about sex, bodily humor, and other gross things. Once or twice isn't a big deal, but if they keep at it, it can get old fast. It's because I'm annoyed by the inappropriate behavior and accompanying attitude than actual disgust, though. I don't feel a negative visceral response in my gut or or anything.

I know someone who does this too! I'm not sure, but I think she's INFP. The things that bother her are benign and easily avoidable, so I don't have a problem with not mentioning them. But then part of me thinks, if they're so benign, why bother asking people not to talk about them? But I guess they matter to her? :unsure:

Hmmm...yeah, she gets mad over stuff that's not really a big deal either way, so I usually go along with it too. She also gets mad about gross or scary things, too, like you were saying Athenian. For instance she'll get angry if I don't stop talking about intestinal parasites. I guess it's not Fi then, even though I, too, think she's INFP.

Why is it so hard to identify functions at work?
 
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