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[MBTI General] In praise of Ps

Twixt

New member
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
91
MBTI Type
ISTP
I find that many descriptions seem to be biased, favoring the J. Stuff like 'they are usually more productive', 'they are always punctual', 'they are hard-working people of determination and follow-through' is fine, yes - thank goodness for such people in tha world. :yes:

However, what about the Ps? things like 'Perceivers are a Judger's worst nightmare' and 'they tend to turn up late, if at all, earning them a reputation for being unreliable' are so negative. come on, guys, you've got to have something good to say about Ps.

so let it roll. :cool:

MAKE OUR DAY. :headphne:
 

Lauren Ashley

Revelation
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
3,067
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
It's all about the Pness on this forum. Just look around...:tongue:
 

luminous beam

♪♫♪♫♪♫
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
744
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
2w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
We can help those who are wound up way too tight to unwind and relax....teach them to laugh, not take themselves so seriously and enjoy the here and now or the abstract.
 

INTPness

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
2,157
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INTP
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5w4
Interesting. I've read some things about da Vinci and other notable P's that has indicated that this trait is a part of their genius. If da Vinci (just as one example) had been a J and made sure that he pumped out one great piece of work every week or every month (or even every year) - put any type of schedule or "routine" on it that you wish - if he had been on a schedule or routine at all - his works would have ended up being something completely different than what they are. It was the fact that he never thought they were complete (they were always "works in progress") and that he didn't treat these things as "work" - something to be grinded out like a production plant full of conveyor belts - that made his work what it was.

I'm reading a great book right now that talks about how many people "will themselves" to work hard and will themselves to do this and do that. An example would be that you see that you are not doing your best in some area (being respectful to your parents, being the best father or husband you can be, or whatever else it may be). So, recognizing this, you make up your bloody mind to change and you "will yourself" to do better. But, this forging forward on your own becomes oppressive. It becomes a difficult task that we do begrudgingly. "OK honey...I don't want you to get mad and I want to be a good husband, so I'll take out the trash." Meanwhile you're cursing under your breath on your way to the trash can because your heart isn't in it (which is often the case with careers). It's this forging forward and willing yourself that, although productive in a practical sense, causes one to not stop and think. Always forging forward. Always having to complete something. Never stopping to contemplate the true meaning behind something. Why should we treat our spouse better? Why should we respect our parents, no matter how utterly boring they may be?

I'm not saying that J's aren't capable of thinking these things through, but I am saying that P's have more of a tendency to do this. These things are important. To think through and arrive at the meaning behind some action or some thing we ought to do or improve on.

In short, a J may produce, produce, produce. Sell books, bring their work to full production (and lots of it, throughout a lifetime), while a P isn't so concerned about what sells or how he makes a living. He's more concerned about the process. In this book, the author says it is precisely things like worrying if my writing will sell or if people will really like it that kills creativity. Deadlines kill creativity. Just write. Just be creative from the core of who you are. Anxiety, fear of the opinion of others, deadlines, checklists of things to do, and "willing ourselves" to do something kills the creative process. If you sit down with pen in hand to write while thinking "I wonder if this will pay when it's published" or "Oh, how will I pay my bills with this?" then you might as well get up from your chair and go get a 9 to 5 because the writing won't be authentic and it won't be creative. It will be forced and the process will be tiring and feel like "work". If you simply sit down and write and share your gift from the center of who you are (writing from an honest and worry free place), then your writing will absolutely and automatically be good. The 2 things (forging forward by pure effort and the creative process) do not go hand in hand. If you want to make a comfortable, steady living, then get a job doing something that is comfortable and steady. End of story. If you want to be creative, on the other hand, then don't worry too much about things like "comfort" and "steady", but just create - and let things develop in your mind and imagination. Contemplate. Ponder. Take long walks by yourself. Take a drive somewhere. Lay on the couch and let your mind wander. It is in these places where ideas are born. And these types of activities are productive for the P-type. Reading about things that don't help creativity aren't necessarily productive. But, spending time in a place that will aid creative thoughts (if being creative is what you desire) is indeed productive.

May sound fluffy, but I believe it. :violin:

Oh, and a side note to this: I sometimes drink caffeine while I write. The author warns against this. She says that by drinking caffeine, you are trying to "speed up" the natural creative process. Your ideas are only at point A and you're trying to get them to point C. Let them develop on their own time. Don't force. Let yourself be a "P"!
 

luminous beam

♪♫♪♫♪♫
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
744
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
2w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I totally agree! ^

ps: I can totally see your Pness haha ;)
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,903
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w8
I don't believe that Ps are any less "productive" or anything like that. They just have more fluctuations and are more dependent on the status of the external environment to be activated, but in the right state and right environment they can easily outperform Js by a large measure.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,429
MBTI Type
eNFJ
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I like Ps. They go well with pasta and have lots of fiber, but the gassiness... Ugh. Ps, stop it with the gassiness, or I'll be forced to like green beans more than you.
 

tinkerbell

New member
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
3,487
MBTI Type
ENTP
P-types virtues... (there was 2 of us at work v's 28 J's)

Sence of fun and advenute... handling challenges like new adventures, making the mundane seem much more interesting...

Make communications seem interesting and engaging....

Are open to other ideas... think beyond the spectum of where the problem is.

Makes people laugh because they are goofy

More inclined to be accepting of other peoples foibles

Can think of new and intersting activities to do

Can think into spaces J tpes can't

Don't get twitchy when others bend the rules

Enjoy being a rebell

Can be a bit of a maveric

snuff for now, will think some more
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Interesting. I've read some things about da Vinci and other notable P's that has indicated that this trait is a part of their genius. If da Vinci (just as one example) had been a J and made sure that he pumped out one great piece of work every week or every month (or even every year) - put any type of schedule or "routine" on it that you wish - if he had been on a schedule or routine at all - his works would have ended up being something completely different than what they are. It was the fact that he never thought they were complete (they were always "works in progress") and that he didn't treat these things as "work" - something to be grinded out like a production plant full of conveyor belts - that made his work what it was.

I'm reading a great book right now that talks about how many people "will themselves" to work hard and will themselves to do this and do that. An example would be that you see that you are not doing your best in some area (being respectful to your parents, being the best father or husband you can be, or whatever else it may be). So, recognizing this, you make up your bloody mind to change and you "will yourself" to do better. But, this forging forward on your own becomes oppressive. It becomes a difficult task that we do begrudgingly. "OK honey...I don't want you to get mad and I want to be a good husband, so I'll take out the trash." Meanwhile you're cursing under your breath on your way to the trash can because your heart isn't in it (which is often the case with careers). It's this forging forward and willing yourself that, although productive in a practical sense, causes one to not stop and think. Always forging forward. Always having to complete something. Never stopping to contemplate the true meaning behind something. Why should we treat our spouse better? Why should we respect our parents, no matter how utterly boring they may be?

I'm not saying that J's aren't capable of thinking these things through, but I am saying that P's have more of a tendency to do this. These things are important. To think through and arrive at the meaning behind some action or some thing we ought to do or improve on.

In short, a J may produce, produce, produce. Sell books, bring their work to full production (and lots of it, throughout a lifetime), while a P isn't so concerned about what sells or how he makes a living. He's more concerned about the process. In this book, the author says it is precisely things like worrying if my writing will sell or if people will really like it that kills creativity. Deadlines kill creativity. Just write. Just be creative from the core of who you are. Anxiety, fear of the opinion of others, deadlines, checklists of things to do, and "willing ourselves" to do something kills the creative process. If you sit down with pen in hand to write while thinking "I wonder if this will pay when it's published" or "Oh, how will I pay my bills with this?" then you might as well get up from your chair and go get a 9 to 5 because the writing won't be authentic and it won't be creative. It will be forced and the process will be tiring and feel like "work". If you simply sit down and write and share your gift from the center of who you are (writing from an honest and worry free place), then your writing will absolutely and automatically be good. The 2 things (forging forward by pure effort and the creative process) do not go hand in hand. If you want to make a comfortable, steady living, then get a job doing something that is comfortable and steady. End of story. If you want to be creative, on the other hand, then don't worry too much about things like "comfort" and "steady", but just create - and let things develop in your mind and imagination. Contemplate. Ponder. Take long walks by yourself. Take a drive somewhere. Lay on the couch and let your mind wander. It is in these places where ideas are born. And these types of activities are productive for the P-type. Reading about things that don't help creativity aren't necessarily productive. But, spending time in a place that will aid creative thoughts (if being creative is what you desire) is indeed productive.

May sound fluffy, but I believe it. :violin:

Oh, and a side note to this: I sometimes drink caffeine while I write. The author warns against this. She says that by drinking caffeine, you are trying to "speed up" the natural creative process. Your ideas are only at point A and you're trying to get them to point C. Let them develop on their own time. Don't force. Let yourself be a "P"!

:nice: Absolutely inspirational post. I sometimes feel very guilty about not 'doing' anything. Not achieving, not completing things, not adhering to a schedule and it actually throws me off. But I'm at my best when I don't worry about such things and just go with my gut. Oddly, I don't feel that what comes forth from that, is actually an achievement. It's..just normal for me, nothing special, or something to be proud of. And maybe that is not the way to look at it. You've given me food for thought.

Thank you.

Any chance you can give us the title of the book?
 

SerengetiBetty

New member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
230
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Da Vinci had the luxury of having patrons...Most of us modern day P's have to work.

I do a pretty good job of hiding my Pness in the working world. I'm a project manager so it's all about details, tracking time and deadlines. Organization and time management are all things that I learned as an undergrad and graduate student. There's nothing like going to school full time, working 2-3 jobs, and juggling extra curricular activities to make you learn some cat wrangling skills,and I don't mean to brag but my Pness is quite large so it's definitely not something that comes easily to me.

I'm out of work at the moment so being able to have fun with my Pness has been great after several years of enforced Jdom.

Anyone else wish we could go back to the days of patrons and sponsors?
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Very much so..*sighs*

Although..I sorta have one, but I'd enjoy being able to be ok with that and not feel guilty about it...
 

INTPness

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
2,157
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INTP
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5w4
:nice: Absolutely inspirational post. I sometimes feel very guilty about not 'doing' anything. Not achieving, not completing things, not adhering to a schedule and it actually throws me off. But I'm at my best when I don't worry about such things and just go with my gut. Oddly, I don't feel that what comes forth from that, is actually an achievement. It's..just normal for me, nothing special, or something to be proud of. And maybe that is not the way to look at it. You've given me food for thought.

Thank you.

Any chance you can give us the title of the book?

Don't worry about "achievements". The book is great so far. It's an older book (the author is deceased) - originally written in 1938 I believe, but I'm loving it. It's called "If You Want to Write" by Brenda Ueland. Check it out!!! It won't disappoint!!! She's either INTP or INFP from my estim...guestimation.
 

INTPness

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
2,157
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INTP
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5w4
Here's a good quote from the above mentioned book that I'll share:

Publisher: Graywolf Press, 1987 (original in 1938 by G.P. Putnams' Sons)

From page 32:
So you see the imagination needs moodling,-long, inefficient, happy idling, dawdling and puttering. These people who are always briskly doing something and as busy as waltzing mice, they have little, sharp, staccato ideas, such as: "I see where I can make an annual cut of $3.47 in my meat budget." But they have no slow, big ideas. And the fewer consoling, noble, shining, free, jovial, magnanimous ideas that come, the more nervously and desperately they rush and run from office to office and up and downstairs, thinking by action at last to make life have some warmth and meaning.

Page 32-34
If you write, good ideas must come welling up into you so that you have something to write. If good ideas do not come at once, or for a long time, do not be troubled at all. Wait for them. Put down the little ideas however insignificant they are. But do not feel, any more, guilty about idleness and solitude.

But of course I must say this:

If your idleness is a complete slump, that is, indecision, fretting, worry, or due to over-feeding and physical mugginess, that is bad, terrible and utterly sterile. Or if it is that idleness which so many people substitute for creative idleness, such as gently feeding into their minds all sorts of printed bilge like detective stories and newspapers, that is too bad and utterly uncreative.

But if it is the dreamy idleness that children have, an idleness when you walk alone for a long, long time, or take a long, dreamy time dressing, or lie in bed at night and thoughts come and go, or dig in a garden, or drive a car for many hours alone, or play the piano, or sew, or paint alone; or an idleness-and this is what I want you to do-where you sit with pencil and paper or before a typewriter quietly putting down what you happen to be thinking, that is creative idleness. With all my heart I tell you and reassure you: at such times you are being slowly filled and re-charged with warm imagination, with wonderful, living thoughts.
 

Blank

.
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
1,201
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
I must say, all this talk about the Pness is cracking me up.
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,455
MBTI Type
3h50
Da Vinci had the luxury of having patrons...Most of us modern day P's have to work.

I do a pretty good job of hiding my Pness in the working world. I'm a project manager so it's all about details, tracking time and deadlines. Organization and time management are all things that I learned as an undergrad and graduate student. There's nothing like going to school full time, working 2-3 jobs, and juggling extra curricular activities to make you learn some cat wrangling skills,and I don't mean to brag but my Pness is quite large so it's definitely not something that comes easily to me.

I'm out of work at the moment so being able to have fun with my Pness has been great after several years of enforced Jdom.

Anyone else wish we could go back to the days of patrons and sponsors?

This here is key. I'd love to sit on my ass all day and then pull something brilliant off every once in a while, but I've got to eat. That means more or less consistent performance, at least until I pull something off that gives me plenty of money to last me for a while
 

substitute

New member
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
4,601
MBTI Type
ENTP
'they tend to turn up late, if at all, earning them a reputation for being unreliable'

And it's not even true either. Might be of stereotypical ESxP's, but I can tell you I have always been punctual by nature. However, the difference between me and a J is that whilst I'm always on time myself, I don't get all uptight and snarky when other people are late.

The person I know who's the most famous in my social circle for being late is, ironically, the ISTJ. Because you see, whatever he's doing is More Important. Like perhaps, you know, when he absolutely has to have a cup of coffee before he leaves, because that's What He Does before going out, even though he got home late from something else and that didn't leave him time to have a coffee and be on time for the next arrangement.

On a different note - I've combatted my weakness with details by taking up clock making and wood inlaying. Hobbies that require huge amounts of patience, precision and attention to detail. Satisfying though, and you can sell the products of it for quite a bit :)
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
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16,767
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entp
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783
I am never late, the world is just too fast :D
 

Halla74

Artisan Conquerer
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
6,898
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
This here is key. I'd love to sit on my ass all day and then pull something brilliant off every once in a while, but I've got to eat. That means more or less consistent performance, at least until I pull something off that gives me plenty of money to last me for a while

HELL YES, THIS SUMS REALITY UP NICELY!
 

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
Da Vinci had the luxury of having patrons...Most of us modern day P's have to work.

...

I'm out of work at the moment so being able to have fun with my Pness has been great after several years of enforced Jdom.

Anyone else wish we could go back to the days of patrons and sponsors?

Your employer can be your sponsor or patron, just don't tell them.


Don't worry about "achievements". The book is great so far. It's an older book (the author is deceased) - originally written in 1938 I believe, but I'm loving it. It's called "If You Want to Write" by Brenda Ueland. Check it out!!! It won't disappoint!!! She's either INTP or INFP from my estim...guestimation.

That books been on my list for ages. I'll have to order it.

This here is key. I'd love to sit on my ass all day and then pull something brilliant off every once in a while, but I've got to eat. That means more or less consistent performance, at least until I pull something off that gives me plenty of money to last me for a while

You know, they say the key to pulling something different out is producing a ton of stuff anyway.
 
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