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[ENTJ] How are ENTJs intimidating?

Dansker

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I respect how commanding and decisive ENTJs are. These are valuable personality traits. I have difficulty understanding why some people are so intimidated by a person with presence.
Agree.
 

xNFJiminy

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I respect how commanding and decisive ENTJs are. These are valuable personality traits. I have difficulty understanding why some people are so intimidated by a person with presence.
It's not the presence; other types have that. It's the unreadable face and lack of sincere interpersonal regard combined with the drive for efficiency that makes people wonder what this person is capable of when cross/ed. Usually it seems, not much of concern, but most people you meet aren't going to know that.
 

Maverick

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It's not the presence; other types have that. It's the unreadable face and lack of sincere interpersonal regard

Where did you get the sincere lack of sincere interpersonal regard from? Sounds like just another misperception and your own projection. If anything, ENTJ's are more sincere than the accomodating Fe types that like to come off nice even though they don't really like the other person. At least you know that when ENTJ's are nice with you it is honest because if they didn't like you they would tell - after all they don't care about causing conflict.
 

proteanmix

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Where did you get the sincere lack of sincere interpersonal regard from? Sounds like just another misperception and your own projection. If anything, ENTJ's are more sincere than the accomodating Fe types that like to come off nice even though they don't really like the other person. At least you know that when ENTJ's are nice with you it is honest because if they didn't like you they would tell - after all they don't care about causing conflict.

It's unfortunate you've been the victim of bad Fe. See this for my take on bad Te.
 

xNFJiminy

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Where did you get the sincere lack of sincere interpersonal regard from? Sounds like just another misperception and your own projection. If anything, ENTJ's are more sincere than the accomodating Fe types that like to come off nice even though they don't really like the other person. At least you know that when ENTJ's are nice with you it is honest because if they didn't like you they would tell - after all they don't care about causing conflict.

Um, MBTI theory, experience, this thread... :D

I didn't say they never have any interpersonal regard, which I think you're defining differently to me. I meant the ones who seem intimidating appear to have a relative lack of it, as in don't, for its own sake, naturally think about how they come across or whether people enjoy their company in certain contexts. Other types consciously think about these things frequently during any interaction. Several ENTJs have expressed this themselves.

What you say about ENTJs being honest because they don't care about causing conflict is an example of what I mean by lack of interpersonal regard. It's not the same as not caring about people, it's just not caring for the semi-innate, semi-culturally constructed social niceties that other types use to measure and strengthen the socio-emotional bonds, mutual understanding and/or security they value. Which has been validly argued may be a good thing.

Fe types can be insincere as anyone else, and may be more likely to be in certain situations, but that's not what defines an Fe type. Fe, like all the functions is something that primary users of it have as a default mode and a source of pleasure, not merely as a means to any other end, although like all the functions it can also be employed to achieve more specific things, both good and evil.
 

FDG

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It's not the presence; other types have that. It's the unreadable face and lack of sincere interpersonal regard combined with the drive for efficiency that makes people wonder what this person is capable of when cross/ed. Usually it seems, not much of concern, but most people you meet aren't going to know that.

How are you connecting unreadable face with lack of interpersonal regard?

If you mean all this bullshit:

t's not the same as not caring about people, it's just not caring for the semi-innate, semi-culturally constructed social niceties that other types use to measure and strengthen the socio-emotional bonds, mutual understanding and/or security they value.

Then I'm proud of lacking it.
 

xNFJiminy

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How are you connecting unreadable face with lack of interpersonal regard?
I'm not. They're two issues that have been brought up in the thread and seem to contribute to the phenomenon in question.
 

cascadeco

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In my experience, they're only intimidating in the sense that if you dare question them, or question their idea/conclusion about something, then you're in for it. With an unhealthy one - They will NOT let go, and won't drop it unless you pretend that you agree with them. Or you can just become quiet and let them have the last word. That works too.

And, the unhealthy ENTJ has NO room for other perspectives. She is right. End of story. Let's just say the combo of me and an unhealthy ENTJ is...explosive. (well, explosive on her part - I simply stayed quiet and walked away. End of that. ;-) But I continue to be friends with two healthy ones, and find there's more openness, and a more balanced approach to people and ideas. Because, they truly do enjoy discussions, and talking out their ideas, and certainly have a lot of energy and follow-through. And, I find them very curious about others, and seem to really enjoy socializing and meeting other people.

Just a guess here, but I think sometimes people might not be intimated so much...they just might see that there's not much of a 'point' in speaking up, or offering a differing opinion, because they know it'll either be shot down by the ENTJ, or it'll turn into a debate-fest, which they don't have any desire to take part in. So, it might be preferable just to sit there and not say/do anything. :)

I guess I have kind of an apathetic attitude about it! I've just learned with my friends that if they've already made up their mind about something, there's not much point of saying anything to counter it, or put it into question. But if they haven't made up their mind - then yes, they can be quite open to your thoughts (whether they integrate them or not is another topic though! ;-)
 

substitute

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And, the unhealthy ENTJ has NO room for other perspectives. She is right. End of story.

I've seen the same thing very much in ENFJ's too. Except that while the ENTJ believes he's logically right, the ENFJ believes he's morally right.

The distinction I seem to have noticed is that ENTJ can be persuaded by someone who just stands up to them, faces them down and clearly and directly states their issue with the ENTJ's idea/method/order. They're a bit like Klingons in that way... heheh... you have to be prepared to go through the fireworks to get to the sudden smile, slap on the back and complimentary cup of bloodwine.

They only believe they've done 'wrong' if they can be proven to be objectively, logically wrong, and their logic proven to be flawed. Once you get past that hurdle, they'll start admitting and apologising for any personal pain they caused en route.

Whereas ENFJ will never admit that they've done anything wrong at all, period. They're morally right all the time, and if they're ever logically wrong, then even the biggest amount of proof of it shoved right under their nose won't prevent them from wheedling out with "well I know it doesnt quite make sense, but it's what feels right, it's just something I have to do". I'd never hear an ENTJ saying that.

And though ENTJ will say a rather lame-ass apology that amounts to "I was right and I'm not budging, but I'm sorry it upsets you" - and they really mean it, they are sorry it upsets you but just not sorry enough to alter their course and quite open about it, the ENFJ's version is even worse IMO: "I was right, therefore you had no right to be upset. I'm not altering my course of action and any decent person would be with me on this" thereby implying that you're actually not a decent person because you disagree with them.

Given a choice between having my logic/work attacked or my personality, I'd prefer the former every time.
 

Varelse

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^ Good points. I tend to be intimidated with most of the XNXJs that I know, merely because I do have respect for their intellect, they're usually certain of their conclusions, and I'm never certain of my own conclusions.

Thus, if they're absolutely certain that they're right, and I'm wrong, my reflex is to figure out where I screwed up, because I'd only even approach certainty with a massive amount of research, and thus apply that assumption to them. :huh:
 

Athenian200

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^ Good points. I tend to be intimidated with most of the XNXJs that I know, merely because I do have respect for their intellect, they're usually certain of their conclusions, and I'm never certain of my own conclusions.

Thus, if they're absolutely certain that they're right, and I'm wrong, my reflex is to figure out where I screwed up, because I'd only even approach certainty with a massive amount of research, and thus apply that assumption to them. :huh:

Were they Extraverts? I'm usually not positive of things either... but I guess I just don't think assumptions that seem reasonable given what I know are really bad. I just assume that if I'm wrong about something, someone will point out why, and then I'll know.


Anyway... how do ENTJ's react if people question them when they say something? Just curious.
 

Varelse

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Were they Extraverts?
Yes.

I'm usually not positive of things either... but I guess I just don't think assumptions that seem reasonable given what I know are really bad. I just assume that if I'm wrong about something, someone will point out why, and then I'll know.
Some of it might be my background as well...I'm not supposed to be smarter than the guys I encounter. :blush:
 

miss fortune

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I have quite a few ENTJ friends who are considered intimidating because they ALWAYS beleive that they're right. They also tend to be a bit blunt about things and tend to project some sort of air of moral authority. I personally don't find them all that scary at all (I've been told that I'm scarier than they are, which mystifies me!) but I do know some people who are afraid to approach them. One of them gets by rather well because his ISFJ girlfriend tends to smooth things over between him and other people any time he's too blunt about things, my other ENTJ friend tends to smile every time he's gone a bit too far, which makes people seem a bit less offended!
 

substitute

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^ Good points. I tend to be intimidated with most of the XNXJs that I know, merely because I do have respect for their intellect, they're usually certain of their conclusions, and I'm never certain of my own conclusions.

Thus, if they're absolutely certain that they're right, and I'm wrong, my reflex is to figure out where I screwed up, because I'd only even approach certainty with a massive amount of research, and thus apply that assumption to them. :huh:

I totally relate to that. Even after all these years, it's still the case that when I put something on his desk and go away, no matter how much research I did or how good or perfect or certain I think it is, I'll be convinced he's gonna say it sucks, until I hear "it did the trick", which is his way of saying "fucking ay, that was wicked man, innit!" and heave a huge sigh of relief.

While on the other hand, whenever he gives me anything he goes away confidently convinced that no other response is possible but total acceptance of it and praise. So when that doesn't happen, and he gets "well... it wasn't bad", which he knows is my way of saying "it sucked actually, but I can't be bothered to re-do it so I'm gonna use it anyway", it tends to make him throw a wobbly...
 

Athenian200

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Some of it might be my background as well...I'm not supposed to be smarter than the guys I encounter. :blush:

Actually, from what I've read, the difference on average towards men is something like a 5-8 IQ point advantage at most (which may be due to flawed testing conditions), and you're an INTx... why shouldn't you be as intelligent or more so? I don't get it.
 

Varelse

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Actually, from what I've read, the difference on average towards men is something like a 5-8 IQ point advantage at most (which may be due to flawed testing conditions), and you're an INTx... why shouldn't you be as intelligent or more so? I don't get it.
Because my parents are conservative Christians, and it's expected that my role will be that of a housewife who helps with the nursery at church, and therefore I have no need of an intellect.

/offtopic

That's a much better way of phrasing things than I could come up with, substitute. I guess I'm somewhat used to that certainty smashing down my ideas...or rough plans, or whatever, because I'm not utterly certain about them.
 

FDG

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Actually, from what I've read, the difference on average towards men is something like a 5-8 IQ point advantage at most (which may be due to flawed testing conditions), and you're an INTx... why shouldn't you be as intelligent or more so? I don't get it.

I thought she meant that she wants as boyfriend a guy that is smarter than her.
 

Varelse

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I thought she meant that she wants as boyfriend a guy that is smarter than her.
Not necessarily. Merely that I'm expected to consider all guys smarter than me. :steam:
 

hotmale

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Were they Extraverts? I'm usually not positive of things either... but I guess I just don't think assumptions that seem reasonable given what I know are really bad. I just assume that if I'm wrong about something, someone will point out why, and then I'll know.


Anyway... how do ENTJ's react if people question them when they say something? Just curious.



I've noticed that they react in one of two ways. If they think you are an analytical thinker- they will carefully explain their reasoning and will listen to your ideas/ opinions.

Otherwise, if not, they will yell out very loudly- "I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR YOUR QUESTIONS, JUST F**KING DO IT!" At least, I have witnessed this in my sister numerous times. Of course, she is very dainty looking- so when people hear her commanding voice, I think it sends a shiver of fear in the people who are in her presence.
 

Recluse

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Not necessarily. Merely that I'm expected to consider all guys smarter than me. :steam:

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