[ENTP] ENTPs get no respect?

[Argus]

And less likely to involve catching anything nasty.

That assumes I'm having sex with SP's.

 

[substitute]

Lets be honest here, ENTP's are no angels at giving respect and SJ's want to be respectable people.... It's like we offend their new world older thinking...

perhaps true to some extent, though I'd refine that a bit by theorizing that it's not so much that we don't give respect, but more that the ways in which we do that perhaps don't produce the outward signs that they're looking for - chiefly, deference.

For me, respect and deference are two different things, and they don't automatically go together. I have other ways of showing respect, but if you're just expecting deference and obsessed with its absence, you're not likely to notice how I am showing respect to you.

 

[corey_vann]

Lets be honest here, ENTP's are no angels at giving respect and SJ's want to be respectable people.... It's like we offend their new world older thinking...

that makes sense. one of the ESTJs in question, the meaner one, seems to think the ENTP is being rude somehow. I've never noticed it myself. Could it be possible that my friend's attempt at joking could somehow be perceived as insults? I usually give a disclaimer to people when we first meet that I'll probably unintentionally insult them somehow (like saying that i hope they didn't paint their living room red because it makes your blood pressure rise and hungry and that's why fast food restaraunts use red on their signs only to find out they did in fact paint their living room that color) and to let me know so I can apologize. People usuall find this confusing but don't argue with it. It's not that I am concerned for their feelings. I just find life goes smoother the less people I have pissed at me.

 

[corey_vann]

perhaps true to some extent, though I'd refine that a bit by theorizing that it's not so much that we don't give respect, but more that the ways in which we do that perhaps don't produce the outward signs that they're looking for - chiefly, deference.

For me, respect and deference are two different things, and they don't automatically go together. I have other ways of showing respect, but if you're just expecting deference and obsessed with its absence, you're not likely to notice how I am showing respect to you.

Another good point, or at least one I really like.

 

[substitute]

I just find life goes smoother the less people I have pissed at me.

that's the kind of pragmatic, strategic thinking that my artificially elevated Te has enabled in me since my late 20's

 

[entropie]

that's the kind of pragmatic, strategic thinking that my artificially elevated Te has enabled in me since my late 20's

+ your not wet all day

 

[yenom]

I have a friend who is an ENTP who seems to not get any respect, especially from a couple of ESTJs we know. At first I wasn't sure what to make of him, but over the past year of getting to know eachother I've learned he's a really nice/good guy. What I don't understand is why people get so down on him. As far as I can tell he doesn't do anything wrong, but he seems to be the defacto-whipping boy of this group of people. What's worse is that the previously mentioned ESTJs, one more than the other, are openly and unnecessarily critical, rude, and all around mean to him. I'm not a big fan of ESTJs to begin with, and I get that he's an easy target, but this is ridiculous! Have any ENTPs had similar experiences with ESTJs and other temperments and how did you deal with it? Has anyone seen this kind of behavior before and how was it dealt with?

(1)Your friend does not know how to stand up for himself
(2) He's hanging around the wrong group of people who tried to demolish his self-esteem
(3) He is a maschoist for satsifying the above 2 conditions

To stand up for yourself is simple, learn martial arts and boxing or other aggressive sport, or any other sport than involved alot of Se.(I think the development of Se in entps is very important)

He is being bullied because he made himself into a target.

 

[Jeffster]

That assumes I'm having sex with SP's.

Or is it that they GIVE no respect?

 

[jenocyde]

I have a friend who is an ENTP who seems to not get any respect, especially from a couple of ESTJs we know. At first I wasn't sure what to make of him, but over the past year of getting to know eachother I've learned he's a really nice/good guy. What I don't understand is why people get so down on him. As far as I can tell he doesn't do anything wrong, but he seems to be the defacto-whipping boy of this group of people. What's worse is that the previously mentioned ESTJs, one more than the other, are openly and unnecessarily critical, rude, and all around mean to him. I'm not a big fan of ESTJs to begin with, and I get that he's an easy target, but this is ridiculous! Have any ENTPs had similar experiences with ESTJs and other temperments and how did you deal with it? Has anyone seen this kind of behavior before and how was it dealt with?

I've always commanded a fair bit of respect, although I don't know or care what has gone on behind my back.

That being said, a lot of times people say things to me that could be seen as incredibly rude to many people, but I don't really see it that way. I see the humor in pretty much everything, so if something is funny - even at my own expense - I am usually the first one cracking up over it. Even if something is intended to be rude, I barely notice. And of course, I also tear new holes into people in return. Your friend may just not care and is hanging around for the comic relief. Whatevs.

 

[Ulaes]

NPs gets laughed at. i notice they dont get the credit they deserve because they're ungraceful, scatter-brained, easily distracted, etc.
as if SJs would understand NPs. we're doing it wrong, apparently. to bad for NPs they're out numbered.

 

[jenocyde]

NPs gets laughed at. i notice they dont get the credit they deserve because they're ungraceful, scatter-brained, easily distracted, etc.
as if SJs would understand NPs. we're doing it wrong, apparently. to bad for NPs they're out numbered.

Meh, they can have all the credit. Who cares... Once I've accomplished something, it's swiftly forgotten about as I pounce on to the next thing. I don't like to live in the past.

 

[simulatedworld]

I have a friend who is an ENTP who seems to not get any respect, especially from a couple of ESTJs we know. At first I wasn't sure what to make of him, but over the past year of getting to know eachother I've learned he's a really nice/good guy. What I don't understand is why people get so down on him. As far as I can tell he doesn't do anything wrong, but he seems to be the defacto-whipping boy of this group of people. What's worse is that the previously mentioned ESTJs, one more than the other, are openly and unnecessarily critical, rude, and all around mean to him. I'm not a big fan of ESTJs to begin with, and I get that he's an easy target, but this is ridiculous! Have any ENTPs had similar experiences with ESTJs and other temperments and how did you deal with it? Has anyone seen this kind of behavior before and how was it dealt with?

lolololol

Yes, my ESTJ older sister still hasn't gotten the memo that:

A) I'm 22 years old, and
B) She isn't my fucking mom! (I already have an ESFJ mom, I definitely don't need two ESJs micromanaging every aspect of my life!)


This is one of the worst natural clashes for two reasons:

1) ESTJs are probably the #1 most externally controlling/administrative type out of everybody, and
2) ENTPs resent being controlled more than just about anybody else.

ESTJ = living embodiment of the Establishment
ENTP = living embodiment of anti-Establishment


You can see the natural disagreement. These days I tend to just avoid her or shit really hits the fan quickly.

 

[epp]

I would echo the possibility of it being that they don't think we're "serious" enough people to be taken seriously, mistaking the outward lightness for absence of inward anything...

But I've also known in the past for it to be plain envy. When I manage to out perform them quite often, yet without brown nosing anybody, and speaking up when I don't like something, standing up for myself and being willing to rock the boat rather than put up with shit - and usually, get away with it. I've known some ESxJ's to resent me hugely for that. They have situations they're not happy with, but they just plod on anyway and don't say anything for fear of "making waves", yet I go ahead and do it and get away with it. I think that creates a feeling of envious resentment, but at the same time, it makes them feel uncomfortable cos it brings into question their conviction that they "have to" put up with shit... perhaps they don't like facing the alternative explanation as to why they do - not because they have to, but because they're afraid to do anything else.

+1!!!

 

[substitute]

I've always commanded a fair bit of respect, although I don't know or care what has gone on behind my back.

Let them hate me, so long as they obey me... heheheh

 

[Argus]

Or is it that they GIVE no respect?

They withhold it?

 

[Lethe]

that makes sense. one of the ESTJs in question, the meaner one, seems to think the ENTP is being rude somehow. I've never noticed it myself. Could it be possible that my friend's attempt at joking could somehow be perceived as insults? I usually give a disclaimer to people when we first meet that I'll probably unintentionally insult them somehow (like saying that i hope they didn't paint their living room red because it makes your blood pressure rise and hungry and that's why fast food restaraunts use red on their signs only to find out they did in fact paint their living room that color) and to let me know so I can apologize. People usuall find this confusing but don't argue with it. It's not that I am concerned for their feelings. I just find life goes smoother the less people I have pissed at me.

that's the kind of pragmatic, strategic thinking that my artificially elevated Te has enabled in me since my late 20's

That's the reason why I play the diplomat more often than I would like. Sure, I have no problem standing on my ground until it breaks. But it kills efficiency... terribly.

 

[Katsuni]

They withhold it?

Respect is not earned, it is given. Yeu can't earn anyone's respect, yeu can only be GIVEN it when yeu match their values. If yeu do something they don't value, they will not give yeu respect for it, no matter how grand it was.

If they absolutely loathe everything yeu value, then yeu will never win them over, no matter whot yeu do.

 

[Argus]

Respect is not earned, it is given. Yeu can't earn anyone's respect, yeu can only be GIVEN it when yeu match their values. If yeu do something they don't value, they will not give yeu respect for it, no matter how grand it was.

If they absolutely loathe everything yeu value, then yeu will never win them over, no matter whot yeu do.

So respect only is given when the alignment of values occurs?

 

[tinkerbell]

I can see what Kat is saying and she has a point...

the clash that I can see is the ENTP will not defer (as Sub mentioned earlier) - in terms of their self esteem independance is desired, so why defer to someone they probably look a bit down on.

By not defering, the SJ will feel like the ENTP has no respect for them - therefore they will do the bitchy SJ thing in order to gain superiority in their heads.

Both sets of people have values that class, if you cna find a middle grouned on values you may find something helpful.

Now if their is seniority between them in some way it's a stale mate.. but if the it's flat, the ENTP should stand his ground and not be bitched at - but that requires confrontation and a few ENTPs really don't do that

 

[CJ99]

How young is he. Whe i was younger an aggressive ExTJ could destroy me. Try help him to develop his wit because once an ENTP is comfortable using his wit in social situation then they can take 2 ESTJs no problem. Its a confidence thing.