[NT] NTs being too critical.

[INA]

Ah, the woes of the human perception.

First step: Beware of the ones calling themselves such, for they often betray themselves by being quick to anger when you don't see things their way.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Ehhh. Idk about that. Critical yes, but some posters here have made it apparent that they're not in this thread for constructive criticism, and when you feel even a bit out of your element or are talking about having felt so, baiting is... intensely irritating, and I get the feeling that that's exactly why it's being done.

So we agree. He is being critical. I wasn't baiting him. Thus there was no reason for that response, except to make him look like an idiot because he was telling me not to do exactly what he is doing. Twice, actually. Assuming that I was assuming and telling me not to assume. As for the rest of the responses, they are mainly centered around the question: How do you know they are NTs? Seems like a legit question to me. If he thought his post would go unquestioned, well he clearly isn't learning much from his class.

 

[Haphazard]

Have you ever thought a book you've read for class was poorly written?

 

[Brendan]

So we agree. He is being critical. I wasn't baiting him. Thus there was no reason for that response, except to make him look like an idiot because he was telling me not to do exactly what he is doing. As for the rest of the responses, they are mainly centered around the question: How do you know they are NTs? Seems like a legit question to me. If he thought his post would go unquestioned, well he clearly isn't learning much from his class.

I wasn't asserting that you were baiting him.

It is a legit question, but much like the questions and comments of his classmates, it misses the point.

 

[Lethe]

First step: Beware of the ones calling themselves such, for they often betray themselves by being quick to anger when you don't see things their way.

In a way, their foolishness provides a hearty form of entertainment for the rest of us.

Popcorn?

 

[INA]

It is a legit question, but much like the questions and comments of his classmates, it misses the point.

And his thread title and insistence on that point as well.

In a way, their foolishness provides a hearty form of entertainment for the rest of us.

Popcorn?

And beer

 

[Lauren Ashley]

I wasn't asserting that you were baiting him.

It is a legit question, but much like the questions and comments of his classmates, it misses the point.

That may be true, but responding in such a manner isn't going to help any. If anything, it will bring more criticism.

 

[Brendan]

And by his thread title and insistence on that point as well.

Oh, don't judge a book by its cover.

If you don't like people stereotyping NT's as critical make a thread about how NF's are too sensitive.

That may be true, but responding in such a manner isn't going to help any. If anything, it will bring more criticism.

Right, and that's why he's made the right move by not responding, leaving us here to keep discussing the discussion.

Speaking of which...

 

[Orangey]

If you don't like people stereotyping NT's as critical make a threat about how NF's are too sensitive.

Heh, why does everyone think that's the motivation?

 

[Lethe]

Have you ever thought a book you've read for class was poorly written?

Yes, a few.

[Back to the topic: As long as the person can solidly support their position (while remaining attentive to the novel's time period and genre), then they have some validity to their case. However, these opinions sound like they were derived from a 21st century arrogance.]

 

[INA]

Oh, don't judge a book by its cover.

If you don't like people stereotyping NT's as critical make a threat about how NF's are too sensitive.

I know better than that.
This is not about stereotyping as much as it is blind and willful scapegoating instead of addressing the problem sensibly.

Once he had hastily drawn his scapegoat, he wasted energy lambasting this creation, working himself up into a frenzy instead of stepping back to think:
1. hey, these guys are jerks, no NT ways about it. There's nothing "NT" about trashing a book you're studying without taking more than a cursory look at it, or lacking insight into the human mind :rolli:. And there's nothing NT about slinging racial slurs around. This is BS.
2. Maybe I should should prepare my thoughts so I can respond well to useful criticism. That way I can get better at this and perhaps make them think
3. Maybe the teacher needs to get in control of a class of rowdy, cocky teenagers who sideline discussion with useless criticism

 

[SerengetiBetty]

I wasn't asserting that you were baiting him.

It is a legit question, but much like the questions and comments of his classmates, it misses the point.

there are many themes and topics that individuals can take from an experience, and literature is no different. the idea that a book is only about *one thing* is ridiculous, especially since there's going to be as many interpretations as there are readers. this is why people can read literature from various viewpoints (ie feminism, deconstructionism, marxism, etc ) find all kind of things to support their viewpoint.

i think the assumption the OP made is that we would immediately understand the point, just based on the limited and seemingly subjective data we were given. If that's how the OP discusses things in the lit class AND the class is comprised largely of NTs I can see where problems would come in .I think many NTs would find it very very difficult to bite their tongues and not rip that point to shreds.

Of course it sucks that the OP now dreads going to class, but honestly I would say get used to that stuff now, especially if you want to go on to college and graduate work. Learning how to coherently back up your ideas when your 15/16 is greatly beneficial when you're working on a doctoral thesis years later.

 

[Brendan]

I know better than that.
This is not about stereotyping as much as it is blind and willful scapegoating.

Wrong again. The point of this thread would be the same, whether or not NT had even been mentioned.

 

[Haphazard]

Yes, a few.

[Back to the topic: As long as the person can solidly support their position (while remaining attentive to the novel's time period and genre), then they have some validity to their case. However, these opinions sound like they were derived from a 21st century arrogance.]

A lot of English lit teachers act like every line of any literature by someone in the curriculum is gold. Why are we expected to work with this assumption without proof?

 

[cafe]

They don't sound terribly intellectual to me.

This is high school, so I'm speaking comparatively.

I just know that I have an INTJ daughter in AP classes and she's totally capable, being allowed to speak freely, of ripping all manner of things and people apart for entertainment purposes. It's more an expression of frustration and a release from that frustration than it is something that should be taken to heart, even if the people doing the venting believe they are being perfectly rational, etc.

 

[INA]

Wrong again. The point of this thread would be the same, whether or not NT had even been mentioned.

Keep up here: my response was not about the point of the thread, it was this comment of yours:

If you don't like people stereotyping NT's as critical

Many of us have stated precisely that his problem isn't about NTs.

 

[Brendan]

i think the assumption the OP made is that we would immediately understand the point, just based on the limited and seemingly subjective data we were given. If that's how the OP discusses things in the lit class AND the class is comprised largely of NTs I can see where problems would come in .I think many NTs would it very very difficult to bite their tongues and not rip that point to shreds.

*Shrug* He's a teenager, give 'im some slack.

And if he's anything like this NFP, he bit his tongue in class, which is why he still had plenty of steam to put into the OP.

Keep up here: my response was not about the point of the thread, it was this comment of yours:



Many of us have stated precisely that his problem isn't about NTs.

Yeah.

I guess I was distracted by your rude and obnoxious tone.

 

[Lethe]

A lot of English lit teachers act like every line of any literature by someone in the curriculum is gold. Why are we expected to work with this assumption without proof?

You shouldn't, and I would question their assumptions immediately. If they are not willing to consider your arguments, then they are not worth any student's time. Isn't their purpose is to guide their students into understanding the subject? (Of course, some do not sufficiently fulfill this category.)

 

[INA]

I guess I was distracted by your rude and obnoxious tone.

Oh? This:

I know better than [to start a thread complaining about NFs' being oversensitive].
This is not about stereotyping as much as it is blind and willful scapegoating.

was rude and obnoxious?

Let me borrow some of your kind of obnoxiousness:
"wrong again"

I'm not even going to bother dissecting the "again" part of your comment.

 

[BlackCat]

I know better than that.
This is not about stereotyping as much as it is blind and willful scapegoating instead of addressing the problem sensibly.

Once he had hastily drawn his scapegoat, he wasted energy lambasting this creation, working himself up into a frenzy instead of stepping back to think:
1. hey, these guys are jerks, no NT ways about it. There's nothing "NT" about trashing a book you're studying without taking more than a cursory look at it, or lacking insight into the human mind :rolli:. And there's nothing NT about slinging racial slurs around. This is BS.
2. Maybe I should should prepare my thoughts so I can respond well to useful criticism. That way I can get better at this and perhaps make them think
3. Maybe the teacher needs to get in control of a class of rowdy, cocky teenagers who sideline discussion with useless criticism

He probably was getting just an intense T vibe from the people, XSTJs can appear NT in the classroom I've noticed if they participate. That's probably what he was getting at, that it was just a T dominated atmosphere and he felt out of place.

Jesus Christ you people take this shit too far. Honestly, there have only been a few posters that have actually DONE anything in regards to this topic, others have just provoked him and argued just to argue or nitpick when they KNEW the point he was getting at. "Lols he made a sweeping generalization let's jump on him!" Come on, the context was pretty obvious here, that it was just a T dominated classroom with an NT like atmosphere, there's no need for any of this.