• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[NT] NTs and Psychological Problems

penelope

New member
Joined
Nov 17, 2008
Messages
249
MBTI Type
INxJ
I mean, legitimate psychological problems.

I suppose I should introduce myself... I've been an INFJ up until, oh, maybe a couple months ago. I made the very painless (in fact: wonderfully numbing) transition from F to T. So I haven't visited this side of the forum until today!

Anyhow, I am diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder. Nowadays, when I can't back up how I feel with a reasonable, logical explanation, I am incredibly frustrated and feel a loss of control (which just aggravates the anxiety). I've been on medication (Zoloft) for several months, which has helped immensely. But I was having a conversation with my boyfriend tonight (an ENFP) about coming off of the medication, and I found myself becoming very frustrated that I couldn't pinpoint the cause of my anxiety, when I know full well that it's simply genetic and also a chemical imbalance, and that there's only so much I can do to reason myself out of an attack.

Without getting too personal, how do other NTs deal with psychological issues such as this? What are you able to tell yourself to let it go, or to help you cope?
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
1,992
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w9
I had a pretty severe eating disorder with mild anxiety disorder when I was about 16 (22 now). I got out of it with sheer will and determination. I also thought this was not going to work out for me in the long haul. So I guess thinking about the bigger picture forced me to realize I had to get out of it, sooner or later. When I started to gain my strength back and my ability to reason, I soon realized that this disorder didn't make any sense and I kicked it pretty quickly after that. I felt like shit the whole time, but I didn't pay much attention to that - I just wanted out.
 

tinkerbell

New member
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
3,487
MBTI Type
ENTP
em, no easy answer I'm affraid. Wanting to do something more than the issue it creates is my normal driver to get throught things, this doens't mean the way I do it is particularly health.

I had a lass at work with anxiety issues (which peaked and troughed throughout the time). The main thing for her was to realise that other people don't care, weren't that interested in her etc. Which sounds weird, but se was hyper consious that other people were overly interested in her (especally when we moved to hot desking).. Once she got that the rest of the team were too busy to be watching her over their shoulders it was less of an issue.

It's difficult for you because there can be so many different causes. Don't be too harsh on yourself. There is a great book on congnative behavioural therapy I read a few months back that might help you with negative thoughts. And don't worry everyone has those, understanding them and challenging them is what helps people deal with their lives.

PS - welcome to the dark side... I'm a little concerned about your switch from F to T, it may just be a temporary thing while things get better for you
 

Gewitter27

New member
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
651
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
I'm a head case. My disorder list is getting bigger every visit.
 

Alwar

The Architect
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
922
MBTI Type
INTP
when I know full well that it's simply genetic and also a chemical imbalance, and that there's only so much I can do to reason myself out of an attack.

Anxiety could be caused by any number of reasons. Some people are just in stressful environments like a bad family, or poverty, or maybe uncertainty about the future etc. Randolph Nesse claims to have "cured" panic attacks in people simply by helping them to internalize the idea that their own nervous systems are merely over reacting to stimuli and causing a fight-or-flight reaction when it isn't necessary. If you can identify where the anxiety derives from, you might be able to overcome it in a similar fashion.
 

Valuable_Money

New member
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
679
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
5w6
I mean, legitimate psychological problems.

I suppose I should introduce myself... I've been an INFJ up until, oh, maybe a couple months ago. I made the very painless (in fact: wonderfully numbing) transition from F to T. So I haven't visited this side of the forum until today!

Anyhow, I am diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder. Nowadays, when I can't back up how I feel with a reasonable, logical explanation, I am incredibly frustrated and feel a loss of control (which just aggravates the anxiety). I've been on medication (Zoloft) for several months, which has helped immensely. But I was having a conversation with my boyfriend tonight (an ENFP) about coming off of the medication, and I found myself becoming very frustrated that I couldn't pinpoint the cause of my anxiety, when I know full well that it's simply genetic and also a chemical imbalance, and that there's only so much I can do to reason myself out of an attack.

Without getting too personal, how do other NTs deal with psychological issues such as this? What are you able to tell yourself to let it go, or to help you cope?

How do you know your doctor isnt just telling you you cant help it because selling you pills for the rest of your life is more profitable than teaching you to deal with your anxiety?

Give a man a fish he eats for a day.
Prescibe a man a fishing inhanceing supplament and he buys drugs from you for tha rest of his life :D
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I was officially diagnosed with General Depression (w/o Schizophrenia) but that seems to be resolved now. (I had to make life changes to alleviate the depression; while there was internal work to be done, there were also external situational pressures I had to change -- I just wasn't able to be happy in the situation I was in.)

I also had something pretty close to Avoidant disorder by the end; the only reason I don't say for sure I had it is because I consider such disorders to be debilitating and prevent one from functioning... and somehow i still managed to hold down a job and (barely) maintain a family.

I resolved that mostly through cognitive behavioral therapy driven by myself (lots of reading, lots of introspecting, lots of looking at my life from outside), then lots of entering situations that scared the hell out of me, so I could work through things; along with this came therapy every two weeks for a few years to give me some affirmation and external trustworthy opinion on where I was going.

EDIT: For a number of years I was on Wellbutrin. That seemed to help curb the symptoms but didn't fix them; I actually had to make hard changes in my life to accommodate that. I was on Effexor for a bit too but just didn't like it, I'm not sure why. It was a pain in the butt to get off of; the side effects of quitting were horrible. Some depression/anxiety is chemical and the drugs help; but often they just merely help ease the symptoms so people can do the hard psychological work.

How do you know your doctor isnt just telling you you cant help it because selling you pills for the rest of your life is more profitable than teaching you to deal with your anxiety?

At the moment, with my 6+ years in the psych industry as a patient, I've never met a therapist or shrink who would do crap like that.

Most actually took pay/session cuts if they could, in order to help me out, and were underpaid (imo) for their time.

Such sleazeballs as you mention exist, but I'm not thinking they're the dominant form of the species.
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
7,708
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
738
Is the NF in strait jackets thread full or something ?
;)

edit: Hadn't read the OP, and apologize. I have an exam tomorrow tho, so i'll try to participate later.
 

The Decline

(☞゚∀゚)☞
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
780
MBTI Type
?
Enneagram
5w4
I need to keep focused on projects and goals so that I remain useful to myself. I have terrible issues with depression, and I often feel worthless, neglectful, and guilty for my past actions or inactions. Personal interest in life is the only cure for me, as well as simply enjoying life in the moment without worrying.
 

paperoceans

Une Femme est une femme
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
834
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
8w7
First and foremost, get off of those pills. The majority of the time medication is unnecessary unless you have a severe mental disorder like say, schizophrenia. I have suffered from so called "anxiety" (GAP) because I went through a traumatic event. Do I get stressed out sometimes? Of course I do and so does everyone else. The problem is excusing the anxiety for such and such instead of trying to go to the root of the problem and solving it. Medication is a temporary fix, but with a buttload of unnecessary side effects. I think personally, it's better to get off the medication and try talking to a psychologist and keeping an anxiety log book.

That's the main problem that I have with psychiatrists, they prescribe you medication instead of trying to find an alternative (pay check, it's all about money). I am wary of putting any type of foreign substance in my body, because lets face it, the majority of that shit is not good for you.

The greatest cure to any disease is the human mind. If you believe that you will be OK, then you will. I speak from personal experience. It's called the sugar-pill effect. If you tell someone that this will cure all your problems and they BELIEVE it (they must believe it) then it most likely will (I am speaking of minor things like... depression, etc.). Believing is half the battle.

/hippy rant
 

Valuable_Money

New member
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
679
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
5w6
I was officially diagnosed with General Depression (w/o Schizophrenia) but that seems to be resolved now. (I had to make life changes to alleviate the depression; while there was internal work to be done, there were also external situational pressures I had to change -- I just wasn't able to be happy in the situation I was in.)

I also had something pretty close to Avoidant disorder by the end; the only reason I don't say for sure I had it is because I consider such disorders to be debilitating and prevent one from functioning... and somehow i still managed to hold down a job and (barely) maintain a family.

I resolved that mostly through cognitive behavioral therapy driven by myself (lots of reading, lots of introspecting, lots of looking at my life from outside), then lots of entering situations that scared the hell out of me, so I could work through things; along with this came therapy every two weeks for a few years to give me some affirmation and external trustworthy opinion on where I was going.

EDIT: For a number of years I was on Wellbutrin. That seemed to help curb the symptoms but didn't fix them; I actually had to make hard changes in my life to accommodate that. I was on Effexor for a bit too but just didn't like it, I'm not sure why. It was a pain in the butt to get off of; the side effects of quitting were horrible. Some depression/anxiety is chemical and the drugs help; but often they just merely help ease the symptoms so people can do the hard psychological work.



At the moment, with my 6+ years in the psych industry as a patient, I've never met a therapist or shrink who would do crap like that.

Most actually took pay/session cuts if they could, in order to help me out, and were underpaid (imo) for their time.

Such sleazeballs as you mention exist, but I'm not thinking they're the dominant form of the species.


Yes I think I was mixing up pharmacutical people with actual therapists.

I have to laugh at a certain anti-depressant ad that comes on that states if your taking anti-depressants but still suffering from depressin this pill could help you alongside your anti-depressant. Id assume that if medication did nothing that would mean that your depression was justified and wasnt just a chemical imbalance but I guess I dont really know alot on the topic. But that leads me to the topic of drug ads in general, youd think if you had an ailment youd just go to the doctor and theyed give you what you needed. Atleast thats how I do it, so what is the point of those ads, are they targeted towards doctors?
 

Alwar

The Architect
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
922
MBTI Type
INTP
Yes I think I was mixing up pharmacutical people with actual therapists.

I have to laugh at a certain anti-depressant ad that comes on that states if your taking anti-depressants but still suffering from depressin this pill could help you alongside your anti-depressant. Id assume that if medication did nothing that would mean that your depression was justified and wasnt just a chemical imbalance but I guess I dont really know alot on the topic. But that leads me to the topic of drug ads in general, youd think if you had an ailment youd just go to the doctor and theyed give you what you needed. Atleast thats how I do it, so what is the point of those ads, are they targeted towards doctors?

I love the side effects they list at the end of the ads. "If your balls implode, be sure to consult your doctor" "do not drive heavy machinery, do not play hopscotch, reading classical Greek literature may lead to heartbeat irregularities." And they list like 20 more.
 

Valuable_Money

New member
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
679
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
5w6
I love the side effects they list at the end of the ads. "If your balls implode, be sure to consult your doctor" "do not drive heavy machinery, do not play hopscotch, reading classical Greek literature may lead to heartbeat irregularities." And they list like 20 more.

I love how fast they are and I love how there always contrasted by children playing in a medow or somthing.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Yes I think I was mixing up pharmacutical people with actual therapists.

True. Their job is to sell pills.

When I was in therapy, I *did* see the TONS of samples that the pill companies put out. I was always able to get free samples of drugs. This doesn't just go for shrinks, though, it goes for the entire medical industry... go to your doctor's office and you will see tons of free samples of various medications and stand-up displays and pens and other garbage meant to peddle the medication. It doesn't mean the medication is useless or necessarily a waste of money, but there is a seeming glut of ads and advertising materials since the companies know that the only meds the patients ask for are the ones they hear about on TV and wherever else.

Which I suppose makes sense, if you are spending millions or billions to create and then test a drug over a period of 7 years or more.

But that leads me to the topic of drug ads in general, youd think if you had an ailment youd just go to the doctor and theyed give you what you needed. Atleast thats how I do it, so what is the point of those ads, are they targeted towards doctors?

See above, lots of patients will go in and ask about a drug, and if the doctor is getting support from the drug company (samples, whatever else) and the drug might actually work for the patient, they'll give it a shot. You see these with allergy drugs, heart medication, ED, and similar things... where it's marketed directly to the consumer in order to create a need for it in the public mind.

One big issue with psychiatric meds of course is that what works for one person with the same diagnosis won't necessarily work for anyone else. Usually a person has to be tried out on some different meds and dosages until things settle. So a new drug might possibly work where an old one did not, even if they are supposed to sort of do the same thing.

... getting back to NT solutions for psychiatric issues tho.... :alttongue:
 

Winds of Thor

New member
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
1,842
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
A good adjusting of values helps. I mean, if one is stirred up by all the pressures coming from others and externally, decide what matters to you.

Then adjust one's values to align with those choices. Then you will have a framework from which to tell yourself what's a big deal and what's nothing to worry about.

It comes down to exactly what you said Penelope, what you tell yourself. This is the core of it as I see.

:)
 

SciVo

New member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
244
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
924
But that leads me to the topic of drug ads in general, youd think if you had an ailment youd just go to the doctor and theyed give you what you needed. Atleast thats how I do it, so what is the point of those ads, are they targeted towards doctors?

Drug ads are targeted at patients, who then shop around for a doctor who will say yes if one says no to prescribing drug X. The marketing aimed at doctors is far more insidious: they offer to pay doctors to give lunch presentations on the drug to their peers, hooking them with incentive-caused bias and then using those doctor-reps to reel in other doctors with liking bias and authority bias. Much of our nightmare combination of high national health care spending with poor national health outcomes is caused by excessively loose regulation of drug marketing, the whole point of which is to cause as much consumption of their product as they can, regardless of whether the benefit (if any) is actually worth the cost.
 

musicheck

New member
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
61
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5
Through self-observation and seeing others, I've definitely noticed NTJ's have a tendency to be highly focused and productive when psychologically unstable. Sometimes this fixes it, but a masochism or self-hate fueled work ethic seems all too common. NTP's seem not to do this at all. Have others seen this pattern?
 

paperoceans

Une Femme est une femme
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
834
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
8w7
Drug ads are targeted at patients, who then shop around for a doctor who will say yes if one says no to prescribing drug X. The marketing aimed at doctors is far more insidious: they offer to pay doctors to give lunch presentations on the drug to their peers, hooking them with incentive-caused bias and then using those doctor-reps to reel in other doctors with liking bias and authority bias. Much of our nightmare combination of high national health care spending with poor national health outcomes is caused by excessively loose regulation of drug marketing, the whole point of which is to cause as much consumption of their product as they can, regardless of whether the benefit (if any) is actually worth the cost.

DING DING. Exactly. It's all about bringing in the money. A lot of people are put on medication when they do not even need it. It's just the way America works :devil:

But I'm trying to become a neuropharmacologist or pharmacist so maybe I am extremely biased. But I would never take meds unless my life depended on it. A psychiatrist tried to put my brother on a shit ton of anti-depressants, but luckily my uncle threw them out and told him it was best not to take them (uncle is a doctor).
 
Top