[MBTI General] relationships xNTJ's with xNTP

[JocktheMotie]

Jock... what do you like/find difficult about the J-ness of ENTJs?

L

It's not like there's a particular like/dislike, it's just a matter of me not seeing why their perspective is any better than mine.

Salt & Pepper's post was good, because it explains a TJ perspective on the thought processes of TP, and how we tend to deal with information and choices. What she sees as laziness and a primary drive to not make a decision is really just us thinking the best answer can only be made if enough information is available. Why make a decision now, when in 2 weeks something can, and will, change? The decision that was made is now revealed to be have been decided on erroneous data, or data that really isn't applicable anymore. I keep my options open simply because I expect the best answer to reveal itself in an obvious manner, once enough information is available. TJs find a decision with an outcome they like and they plow right on ahead.

Also, and I don't have much to back me up on this, but I generally think NTPs are very time indifferent. Ti+Ne or Ne+Ti operate in such a way that "time" is not inherently a relevant piece of data in decision making, so we tend to not have an innate sense of it, or its passing.

 

[Uytuun]

I don't have a lot of experience with male ENTPs (I like the females a lot, though, they are my pals )...which is a bad sign as they must be out there and we must've met, but we didn't really stick to one another apparently. They seem a little too full of themselves/brash/bullshitty/peacocky...I think I'd prefer a mature high-Ne INTP. 'course it all depends on the individual etc. etc.

Maybe ENTP-INTJ is more of a hate/distrust-->fascination-->love thing with more chemistry and needs time to grow whereas INTP is more immediately like-minded/soothing (but can turn into "irritating"?). That's right, I called you soothing.

and I imagine a hard J would have use for the alternate perspective that their own shit isn't necessarily the end of the world, too. I mean, everyone could, really.

soothing

 

[jenocyde]

Also, and I don't have much to back me up on this, but I generally think NTPs are very time indifferentl. Ti+Ne or Ne+Ti operate in such a way that "time" is not inherently a relevant piece of data in decision making, so we tend to not have an innate sense of it, or its passing.

Time pisses me off.

 

[Salt n' pepper]

Basically what Poppy said. Never felt a click with many INTJs. ENTJs on the other hand...oh body. Sign me up.

Sign on the dotted line below:

........................................

 

[Lethe]

Basically, I don't think types are the most important factor here.

Without a doubt. The better question should be, how much are you willing to work at your relationship? Some people will want an immediate understanding, while others would prefer to take the longer path.

But it is still largely fun thinking about such topics. They're water cooler discussions that keeps everyone engage, and at the same time, the applicable uncertainty keeps them from being taken too seriously.

On the other hand, two Js with contrary goals would be at each others' throats.

This is why I should be the only strong J in any romance. I won't back down from my goals that easily and the Ps are more willing to move around them. All in theory, naturally. I'm up for changing an approach, though a fellow strong J often wants more. (Been there. Done that. In numerous debates.)

I like hanging with ENTJs but no, never wanted to date one. I am cuckoo for INTJs though. Problem is, they just don't like me back. Something about flakiness or laziness or impulsiveness or something... I dunno, I wasn't paying attention.

I must have caused the last ENTP (a strong P) an abrupt heart attack when I asked him about his future plans in one opening question. This was before I took the time to study their style, and I dismissed him as a general wishy-washy individual who's only pragmatic skill lies within deliberate decision making escapes. And I'm sure I was nothing short of an overbearing, rigid person who refuses to enjoy life from his POV. Since then, I haven't had much of a lifestyle disagreement with the ENTPs. Everything makes sense once you finally understand how and why they live the way they do. I had previously gotten along with other Ps, but this one really opened my eye to their natural preferences.

 

[entropie]

Time pisses me off.

Is your alarm clock in the toilet too, with you shouting periodically over the day: REVENGE ! ?

 

[tinkerbell]

These are all great responces, I was recently hit on by an INTJ - which is a type I'd not considered, I was a bit intimidated by his J-ness - or perhaps I was ashamed of my P-ness - one of the other....

I must have caused the last ENTP (a strong P) an abrupt heart attack when I asked him about his future plans in one opening question. This was before I took the time to study their style, and I dismissed him as a general wishy-washy individual who's only pragmatic skill lies within deliberate decision making escapes. And I'm sure I was nothing short of an overbearing, rigid person who refuses to enjoy life from his POV. Since then, I haven't had much of a lifestyle disagreement with the ENTPs. Everything makes sense once you finally understand how and why they live the way they do. I had previously gotten along with other Ps, but this one really opened my eye to their natural preferences.

You know I'm totally oblivious to time in a linear way - love history thought. It's not that I put off decisions, I just get caught up in something else.

Not sure if anyone has read Blink - by Malcom Gladwell - but I think I'm fairly decisive, but lots of my decisions are about not wanting to do something. Maybe that is just a different way off putting off the decision, I don't know.

Thi sthreads been really helpful - thanks for chiming...

xxx

 

[jenocyde]

I must have caused the last ENTP (a strong P) an abrupt heart attack when I asked him about his future plans in one opening question.

*not* a fan of this line of questioning.

Everything makes sense once you finally understand how and why they live the way they do. I had previously gotten along with other Ps, but this one really opened my eye to their natural preferences.

that is soooo true and I am happy to have figured this out, sooner rather than later.

Is your alarm clock in the toilet too, with you shouting periodically over the day: REVENGE ! ?

It would be but I don't even own a clock. The only clock is on my cell phone and I generally leave it behind when I leave the house.

 

[tinkerbell]

*not* a fan of this line of questioning.
.

ROFLMAO - not my fave subject either

It would be but I don't even own a clock. The only clock is on my cell phone and I generally leave it behind when I leave the house.

Me neither.... my computer has a clock...

 

[Kangirl]

ENTJ women are (in my oft-questionable experience) more likely to be seeking a "be the man" man than average.

Also agreed.

It would be but I don't even own a clock. The only clock is on my cell phone and I generally leave it behind when I leave the house.

*sweats, breaks out in hives, feels unhappy*

it's just a matter of me not seeing why their perspective is any better than mine.

See, Jock? You've ID'ed the problem. Now the next step is solving it. I.e. accepting and truly knowing that our perspective *is* better.

Thinking about my INFP...his timekeeping always has been, is, and probably will forevermore be a big problem between us. In that he doesn't keep time well. He CAN, he just DOESN'T. And that makes me want to throw heavy objects at his head. His ability to go with the flow is also much more developed than mine, although I have a tendency to view this as possible healthy for me, in that it helps me do stuff without planningplanningplanning. I mean, that said, I truly love planningplanningplanning, so...yeah.

 

[Lethe]

You know I'm totally oblivious to time in a linear way - love history thought. It's not that I put off decisions, I just get caught up in something else.

Thi sthreads been really helpful - thanks for chiming...

xxx

Sure, no problem. This is the perfect time for a demotivator:

Or on a positive note, mistakes will help you to effectively shape your choices. So don't be afraid to question the INTJ on his stance because he might gain something constructive in the end.

Not sure if anyone has read Blink - by Malcom Gladwell - but I think I'm fairly decisive, but lots of my decisions are about not wanting to do something. Maybe that is just a different way off putting off the decision, I don't know.

It's more like you choose your decisions by the moment, while we choose ours by the far distant future. Roughly everything I do is factored and calculated into the long-range plan. Our actions will consequently have a corresponding alignment to the rest and this makes us 'appear' decisive as result. If you have one determining factor, then it's easy to choose between several options. However, extracting that one-size-fits-all factor from an existing situation takes a careful examination. Your INTJ could require a longer time than you here.

(When an INTJ has Ne, this affects their thinking and acting style. I knew some 'INTP-ish' INTJs in real life.)

 

[tinkerbell]

It's more like you choose your decisions by the moment, while we choose ours by the far distant future. Roughly everything I do is factored and calculated into the long-range plan. Our actions will consequently have a corresponding alignment to the rest and this makes us 'appear' decisive as result. If you have one determining factor, then it's easy to choose between several options. However, extracting that factor takes careful examination.

Yes perhaps that the case, when someone asks me about 5 years ahead I could alway say "I want baked beans for tea"... I really don't make long range plans - opting for seeing opporutnities when they arise. I am aware however that spontenaty doesn't exactly have great returns.

I went on holiday a few years back with an ENFJ - who got really picked off my my P-ness and my T-ness... I hasn't been on holiday for nearly a year, I work in a very scheduled way - with pertty much every hour of my day as an outlook bar coded (managment meetings/strat meetings etc etc), so I needed to cut loose and be free. He however didn't work so wanted to schdule lots of rgimented walks to see specific sights and spend all this time with me. IT WAS HELL on earth, I needed more me time and freedom than that...

I wont let the INTJ be too smug about planning - not that he was - I just could see I am lousey at it. Not sure he will be back though, he is off liberating his P-ness.....

 

[Lethe]

Yes perhaps that the case, when someone asks me about 5 years ahead I could alway say "I want baked beans for tea"... I really don't make long range plans - opting for seeing opporutnities when they arise. I am aware however that spontenaty doesn't exactly have great returns.

I went on holiday a few years back with an ENFJ - who got really picked off my my P-ness and my T-ness... I hasn't been on holiday for nearly a year, I work in a very scheduled way - with pertty much every hour of my day as an outlook bar coded (managment meetings/strat meetings etc etc), so I needed to cut loose and be free. He however didn't work so wanted to schdule lots of rgimented walks to see specific sights and spend all this time with me. IT WAS HELL on earth, I needed more me time and freedom than that...

I wont let the INTJ be too smug about planning - not that he was - I just could see I am lousey at it. Not sure he will be back though, he is off liberating his P-ness.....

If someone's going to be associating with a different party, then they will need to negotiate until they find some common ground. Let's face it, many people don't want to change their core style for something insignificant as a vacation. Therefore the ultimate key to a successful team is communication. (And yes, it means active listening on the INTJ's part. We're infamous for being 'right' and having a firm conclusion before we start.) The ENTP's pitfall includes over-estimating their abilities. Correct me, if I'm wrong.

Not to mention, expectations always changes and warning the other person will save plenty of grief. The ENFJ could have assumed you were going to vacation the same way you worked.

 

[jenocyde]

The ENTP's pitfall is over-estimating their abilities. Correct me, if I'm wrong.

You're wrong.

 

[entropie]

Who is pitfall ?

 

[tinkerbell]

The key to a successful team is communication. (And yes, it means active listening on the INTJ's part. We're infamous for being 'right'.) The ENTP's pitfall is over-estimating their abilities. Correct me, if I'm wrong.

Actually I think the being right thing is an NT thing might be exacerabed. I don't think I over estimate abilities.... thats really about taking on too much. I'm not good at warding stuff off .............which isn't the same thing... Although it probably is in reality - I just get over streached and cranky. Gosh maybe I'm misdiangosing myself - INTERESTING!

I'm all for understanding differences (the holiday was horrible - I had to park the guy for half the day and either do something with him in the morning or afternoon - I could cope with him 7 hours flush). Now the INTJ is a different animal, less hissy fit and more calm - but it may have been passing as I don't think he will be ack in the country for a while, however it did open my eyes to a possibity (I don't mind ENTJ's so long as thier J-ness isn't too much). So keeping an open mind.

Lis

 

[Lethe]

You're wrong.

Then what would be a generalized pitfall for the ENTPs as a group?

 

[entropie]

Then what would be a generalized pitfall for the ENTPs as a group?

errm, I always say boobs if I dont know what to say so: boobs

 

[jenocyde]

Let's face it, many people don't want to change their core style for something insignificant as a vacation.

The thing is that vacations are not insignificant for some people. When I get away, I *need* to feel like I have finally regained control of my life. Go where I want, when I want, catch up on sleep or books or partying. I can't regain control if someone is controlling me.

But the pitfalls for us as a group, I think, is not giving a shit about things that could probably warrant more attention.

 

[Lethe]

Actually I think the being right thing is an NT thing might be exacerabed. I don't think I over estimate abilities.... thats really about taking on too much. I'm not good at warding stuff off .............which isn't the same thing... Although it probably is in reality - I just get over streached and cranky. Gosh maybe I'm misdiangosing myself - INTERESTING!

I'm all for understanding differences (the holiday was horrible - I had to park the guy for half the day and either do something with him in the morning or afternoon - I could cope with him 7 hours flush). Now the INTJ is a different animal, less hissy fit and more calm - but it may have been passing as I don't think he will be ack in the country for a while, however it did open my eyes to a possibity (I don't mind ENTJ's so long as thier J-ness isn't too much). So keeping an open mind.

I can see this pattern in the ENXXs, actually. The worse case of it was in an ENFP. Everybody bites off more than what they could chew, yet certain types are prone to it than others.

I don't push agendas on other people, except if I'm in a project with them since the overall results relies on the team's effort. I'd normally schedule things around them. Not sure about the rest of the INTJs.