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[MBTI General] Beliefs

Belieive content of books?

  • Believe books without checking any evidence (non fiction)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Have some scepticism over books (non fiction)

    Votes: 22 71.0%
  • Really sceptic so need evidence that the book is not just conceptual (non fiction)

    Votes: 9 29.0%

  • Total voters
    31

tinkerbell

New member
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
3,487
MBTI Type
ENTP
Hi

I belong to a socIal group that often has authors who come and talk about the subject they have written and published books on.

I've been quite shocked at how poor some of the supporting research has been....

Tell me do you believe in what you read unquestioningly or do you check out what research the book is based on?

Just intersted, for some reason I beleive books with less proof than if I read it in the paper or online....
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I have a two-pronged checking method.

One is the specific references check (to see what the book considers credible). (This is more a Te+Si style approach.)

The other is internal coherency and substance of the book itself. You can tell whether the content demands (1) some knowledge of the field in question and (2) what sort of approach is taken with the material and (3) what sort of info the author considers valid and what is skipped over. So this is more the Ne/Ti approach, it derives a general feel for whether the book is coherent and isn't leaving any obvious gaps/flaws in knowledge.
 

substitute

New member
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
4,601
MBTI Type
ENTP
if it's fiction, I believe none of it - I pretend to believe it whilst I'm reading it so that I can enjoy it better, but I don't really believe it. But I rarely read fiction and when I do, it's often children's books.

if it's non-fiction, it depends on the subject and who's writing it. if it's something I know a lot about, I can tell which bits of new info are more likely to be true. those I'm skeptical of tho, I still check out, keep my mind open but not at both ends :D

I read a lot of non-fiction and always have done, on a wide variety of subjects, so my general knowledge from that and just constant interacting with the world around me, is quite extensive (ahem, not meaning to boast, but I do pwn the pub quiz), so my discernment level's probably not bad *polishes knuckles*

that stuff that's actually fiction masquerading as non-fiction, which is all the rage in the last few years (like Da Vinci Code, etc), I don't even read.*

I wouldn't read a non-fiction book that was likely to mostly be bunk. If I read one by an author I trust, I might check the bibliography if I come across a part that's skewy, but if the reference is good, an MS/source I know of, I sometimes look it up, sometimes don't, depending on my mood. Sometimes - no, often - I look up sources anyway, out of curiosity and wanting to learn more, not skepticism.
 

Valuable_Money

New member
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
679
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
5w6
Nobosy voted for the first option because they dont want to sound like sheeple
 

LostInNerSpace

New member
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
1,027
MBTI Type
INTP
Depends on the book, author, topic. I am particularly careful when the author is highly regarded. I once bought a book by a well respected author which turned me off a technique my intuition told me was good. I reluctantly continued with the technique but never devoted the attention it deserved. I realized later the author had incorrectly used probability and statistics to build a seemingly credible case against the technique when in fact what he did was completely wrong. He use the technique in isolation when he should have considered the context. I generally try to avoid considering any one book or source in isolation.
 

CzeCze

RETIRED
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
8,975
MBTI Type
GONE
I am an optimistic skeptic. Even when I like what I read (especially when I like what I read) I want to make sure it actually works or is valid. I generally buy a few books at a time on the same subject. If I want to study for a test or learn a new language, likewise I usually get at least two different sources. Really, I just read up as much as I can from all over the place, keeping in mind the legitimacy and reuptation of the source.

My methods are more scattered but work well for me - Ne/Ti or Si (?) help absorb a bulk of information and asborb the salient points.
 

Alwar

The Architect
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
922
MBTI Type
INTP
I have grown more skeptical over time. Many will assume something is legitimate because a study was cited or a scientist "said so." Although it depends on the subject matter how skeptical I am. It's great that you can often look up the study on the internet nowadays and look for critiques so easily.
 

tinkerbell

New member
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
3,487
MBTI Type
ENTP
I'm totally guilty of getting sulked into beleive something because it's in a non fiction book. I get more skeptical over time because I've see how bad some authors are are evidencing their opinions. It's really easy to then cite these bad authors as avidence of proof of concept.

I recently read a book on Risk by Dan Gardener, so much fo what is reported in the media is total tosh... there to sell papers. He harps on about actual evidence and not misreporting statistical information. Anything can be seen to support an argument.

One bit he wrote about was on Child abdution - which he cited the US statistic for... then proceeded to pull that statistic to bits.... Most were parents arguing over their kids, followed by 14 year old girls going off with 17 year old boys and so on. When he got down to the real pedophile style abduction the number was so small that sceintifically the risk did not exsist....

Don't quote me on the above paragraph - it's an analogy based on something I read months ago, but my point being that authors by the very fact they have written a book and are soemtimes best sellers - have in fact based that book on really poor informaton....

Lis
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,903
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w8
I only really trust information provided by "technical" books - pure facts and figures and/or algorithms and methods. Then there's the books that argue some theory and base their reasoning on statistics - I consider them "a point of view" on the matter at hand, but far from truth (ex. psychology, management - these are the typical subject where most of what's written can only be considered an opinion). Then there's fiction, in that case I don't even think about believing or not believing what's written.
 

LucrativeSid

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
837
I don't really "believe" anything completely. I just assess whether it's worth putting in the "most likely I've got so far" category in my head or not. Some things go there easily. Other things don't even come to close because I don't think they make sense. Other things, if I deem them important enough, are researched thoroughly. So for me, it's either good enough and likely enough to give merit to, or it's not. Plain and simple. Information is harmless. Information leads to ideas. Ideas lead to action. Action is what matters.
 

bluebell

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
1,485
MBTI Type
INTP
I'm less inclined to believe books at face value. I think a healthy dose of scepticism is necessary, because the main criteria that non-fiction books have to meet is 'will this book sell well?' There is generally no peer review of books, authors can write whatever they want, no matter how weird or wacky their ideas are.

My approach is somewhat like CzeCze's. If I'm interested in a topic, I'll read a bunch of different books, read online etc. I've got a reasonably good gut feel for knowing how trustworthy a particular source is (based on things such as, what do I already know about the topic, does it make sense if I compare it to everything else I already know, who is the author and what is their background etc etc).
 

substitute

New member
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
4,601
MBTI Type
ENTP
I don't really "believe" anything completely. I just assess whether it's worth putting in the "most likely I've got so far" category in my head or not. Some things go there easily. Other things don't even come to close because I don't think they make sense. Other things, if I deem them important enough, are researched thoroughly. So for me, it's either good enough and likely enough to give merit to, or it's not. Plain and simple. Information is harmless. Information leads to ideas. Ideas lead to action. Action is what matters.

I relate to all of what you said, but with the last bit, that's exactly why information can be anything but harmless, simply because so many people do not check sources or verify facts. See the thread in the SJ forum where IxTJ's openly say that they just want to have things decided and don't want to go on a long winded tour of the facts and evidence etc, just get to the point - such people I'd say were quite vulnerable to taking bad actions based on bad ideas based on bad information. I know TJ's who will only ever go as far in checking out a source as checking the credentials of the person who gave it, so as long as the author has a degree, he's believed, no matter what twisted motives he might have.

And considering that TJ's probably constitute the biggest slice of the pie when you get to people making the big decisions that affect the world... well... it's worrying.
 

Usehername

On a mission
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
3,794
If it's reading for my own interest, I almost never check facts; I sort of hold it in suspension in my head that this is what was explained in the book, but even the best can err.

If it's my own scholarly interests, I check facts for anything crucial.
 

LucrativeSid

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Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
837
I relate to all of what you said, but with the last bit, that's exactly why information can be anything but harmless, simply because so many people do not check sources or verify facts. See the thread in the SJ forum where IxTJ's openly say that they just want to have things decided and don't want to go on a long winded tour of the facts and evidence etc, just get to the point - such people I'd say were quite vulnerable to taking bad actions based on bad ideas based on bad information. I know TJ's who will only ever go as far in checking out a source as checking the credentials of the person who gave it, so as long as the author has a degree, he's believed, no matter what twisted motives he might have.

And considering that TJ's probably constitute the biggest slice of the pie when you get to people making the big decisions that affect the world... well... it's worrying.

If people are making big decisions based on shaky information, they sound like the kind of people who will have a bad effect on the world no matter what.

But normally, it's not that big of a deal. If you make an assumption to save time, you'll either figure out you're wrong later, or you can double check that information when the time comes to actually use that information.

The information is still harmless, though. Just like guns. Someone has to load them and pull the trigger. But that doesn't mean we should give guns to prisoners and hope for the best, haha. We should still be diligent and safe.
 

substitute

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May 27, 2007
Messages
4,601
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ENTP
yeah I get what you mean. it's the big question though isn't it? should guns be restricted to prevent the pragmatic and very real danger of idiots misusing them? should information be verified and attested before publication to avoid the very real danger of idiots using it to take bad actions that affect other people - people who are too proud to admit when they're wrong and will plough themselves and others with them into the dirt before changing course? such people are not in short supply.

maybe it should just be redefined. information that can't be verified as true could be relabelled as fiction, opinion or interpretation.
 

Frank

New member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
689
The only things I am inclined to believe are things that can be proven in a technical manner. The rest are seen as either useful or not. I don't have to believe something is 100% accurate in order to be able to use it.
 

Wild horses

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Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
1,916
MBTI Type
ENFP
To be honest I don't always read books for research or facts, (Both of these have their own limitaions also) I read books to understand and gain knowledge on theories. I like to contemplate the ideas which the author is putting forward and I suppose the only real evidence that actually matters to you is how these theories and ideas play out in your own life. For eaxmple, ancedotal evidence, whilst it holds very little weight statistically it can be life changing to you personally.
 

chasingAJ

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
161
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
FIVE
I believe that first-person narratives of events are what that person perceived of the events and take them as a qualitative view of the situation. I believe that you have to engage in the argument with books so I tend to write in the margins and yell at the author. If authors use science terms to mean their common connotation instead of the literal meaning, I typically see them as ignorant and question their argument. I use google frequently to see where similar arguments "pop up." If they are mostly on blogs and personal websites I will search JSTOR or some other scholarly database to see what supports it. If they're mostly on .org websites that are not dedicated specifically to that cause, I will generally accept the information.
 
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