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[NT] Why men don�t listen & why women don�t read maps

runvardh

にゃん
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
8,541
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
9/20 ring finger longer
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
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INFJ
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4w5
I wonder how they decide what traits are female and which ones are male. Perhaps they go by the average behavior of men and women, or maybe they've determined which behaviors are associated with testosterone and estrogen. There's nothing intrinsically gender-oriented about those hormones, though, nor does it make a lot of sense to go by common behavior when it's so heavily influenced by culture. It seems arbitrary to me, but then I suppose everything does. I got 15 out of 20, by the way, which seems a bit high to me.

15/20

Female hands

Whew, someone finally got a higher score than me. It's about time. :)
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,988
5/20, fairly equal sized index and ring fingers. INTP male.
 

tinkerbell

New member
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
3,487
MBTI Type
ENTP
Whew, someone finally got a higher score than me. It's about time. :)

I saw that, and thought hey a famel brain and hands...

The first time I ever came across the index v's ring finger thing was a discussion forum on infertility. Very fetile men have really long ring fingers and women this is inverse. If women have longer ring fingers it "can" indicate fertility issues. I don't know how accurate it is.

Lis
 

dani_elle

New member
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
82
MBTI Type
ENFP
16/20 and I have a slightly longer index finger on both hands.

Is it because I am clumsy and have no sense of direction? Most questions seem to be geared towards that.

Holy... I don't want to be uber fertile. Despite my supposed feminity I don't like kids.
 

Synapse

New member
Joined
Dec 29, 2007
Messages
3,359
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4
10/20 INFP male and both my index and ring fingers for both hands look even.
 

Ulaes

loopy
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
850
MBTI Type
crak
Enneagram
sax
yeah look i didnt take it but those tests usually scream MALE!!! at me.. and im female.

my mind is definatlety very masculine. ive known this for a long time and my typically-masculine-learning-problems-that-i-shouldn't-have-because-im-a-girl have been overlooked my entire school life, which is a real pain in my ass. i get sick watching teachers pat boys on the back the second they show trouble. i struggled more than most of them and was always ignored, or put in box 'unknown' and hence ignored. im better at most "man" things than men. there have been amny occasions were ive watched a group of guys, who, and i quote "have a knack for fixing things", struggle with fixing somethign which i figured out almost as soon as i looked at it. (i go back after they were done failing and fix it).
ive never had to rotate a map to read it. i dont follow intructions. out of everyone in my family (including the males) im the best as visual/spatial reasoning and the like. the type of ability it requires to build something, to sculpt, to remember visually, to mentally rotate.
youre hypothesising NT's have masculine thought processes? i dont think you're correct, i think you're confusing it with masculine emotion-ness. sure N's like whole picutres but mbti doesn't dictate their methods of thought, just the thoughts purpose. NT#1 is wondering about the whole picture but their thoughts are in words. NT#2 also wonders about the whole picture but thinks in pcitures.
NT#1 talks alot more, is analytical, does better in school, does better at timed tasks and essays but cant read a map, hates subjects like technical drawing, is less likely to understand mathematical relationships between forces, etc.
NT#2 communicates more with body language and actions rather than words, has trouble communicating their thoughts, probably hates school and can't demonstrate their intelligence, does well at phsyics and advanced math, can double back over a path after only travelling that way once before, etc.

men or "masculine" minded people don't listen because they don't think in words.
women or "feminine" minded people don't/can't read maps because they don't think in picutres.

there's a pciture i saw somewhere and i thought it was very demonstrative. it was of two people who were each building an aeroplane. one following the instructions, not knowing how it was going to turn out. they were doing it step by step. the other hadn't concidered the intructions but had a thought bubble over their head of what the finished plane would look like, and had already finished it.

whoops, sorry.
*end hateful rant.*
 

Ulaes

loopy
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
850
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crak
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sax
oh and ive measured my index and ring fingers. i think i had/have slightly longer ring fingers which indicte i was exposed to higher level of tesoterone while i was in the womb. my ratio was more masculine than my fathers'.

:huh: i guess im more of an Xx than a XX ... even Xx (just kidding)
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
men or "masculine" minded people don't listen because they don't think in words.
women or "feminine" minded people don't/can't read maps because they don't think in picutres.
.

The way I think of getting from place to place is by thinking of certain intersections as main parts with abstract connections connecting them to other intersections and places. I may know that two different routes can get me to the same places, but I don't really have a mental map of how. The only gauge I have of how different the routes are are the kinds of road, speed limits, and amount of time each one takes.


I often think in words but I can't understand or keep track of linear verbal directions

I often can't read maps because though I think of the places visually I'm thinking of them at a human-eye view instead of a birds-eye view, with lots of details that I know are important to recognizing the intersection, like how many lanes there are and how many turn in each direction.

I remember once going to an old maps exhibit at a museum where there were pictures of the road and intersections and under the pictures it said 'turn left here.' That would be the most useful map to me.
 

Asterion

Ruler of the Stars
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
2,331
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INTP
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5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
11/20

<-- male ENTP. Left hand is more masculine, right hand is almost the same. Plenty of jokes to be made there :D
 

Ulaes

loopy
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
850
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crak
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sax
^ haphazard you seem more "femine" minded, more so than me at least. you can't mentally rotate visions/picutres.
 

lane777

nevermore
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
635
14/20

3. I once had to ask so many people for directions on my way to an unfamiliar place that my reputation proceeded me (because I didn't understand the map and had relied on an incomplete set of landmarks from simulating my walking route on Google Earth), and I was known as "the person with the lousy sense of direction" with people joking about me when I got there. :blush:

4. I'm 21 and still too scared to get my driver's license.

I get lost in my own town :smile:
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
^ haphazard you seem more "femine" minded, more so than me at least. you can't mentally rotate visions/picutres.

Bird's eye views are very disorienting. I don't understand the appeal of Google Maps because of this.

I mean. I don't usually look at places from above. I'm not a bird.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
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Messages
8,828
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4w5
.

The way I think of getting from place to place is by thinking of certain intersections as main parts with abstract connections connecting them to other intersections and places. I may know that two different routes can get me to the same places, but I don't really have a mental map of how. The only gauge I have of how different the routes are are the kinds of road, speed limits, and amount of time each one takes.


I often think in words but I can't understand or keep track of linear verbal directions

I often can't read maps because though I think of the places visually I'm thinking of them at a human-eye view instead of a birds-eye view, with lots of details that I know are important to recognizing the intersection, like how many lanes there are and how many turn in each direction.

I remember once going to an old maps exhibit at a museum where there were pictures of the road and intersections and under the pictures it said 'turn left here.' That would be the most useful map to me.

+1

That's closer to what I do as well. When I try to get directions, I end up virtually walking the route using Google street view to get an idea of what the place looks like, rather than just a map. I can't really read just a straight map without using landmarks, and even then I often end up taking a really inefficient (if not incorrect) route.

I recently tried to walk somewhere I didn't know how to get to, and I ended up asking six or seven people for directions, and finally ended up calling the place I was headed when I was within a certain distance of it but couldn't find it anywhere, and they had to walk me through the remaining landmarks over the phone, stuff like "do you see a blue mailbox?". I'm known in that area as "the person with the lousy sense of direction" now.
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
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oh god... I'm a dude! :doh: and I'd thought all this time that I was female! nice of the test to set me straight I suppose...

4/20 with fingers at equal length

*for an unknown reason, whatever is secretly proud of herself for out-manning the rest of the board*
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
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Messages
6,704
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ENFJ
+1

That's closer to what I do as well. When I try to get directions, I end up virtually walking the route using Google street view to get an idea of what the place looks like, rather than just a map. I can't really read just a straight map without using landmarks, and even then I often end up taking a really inefficient (if not incorrect) route.

I recently tried to walk somewhere I didn't know how to get to, and I ended up asking six or seven people for directions, and finally ended up calling the place I was headed when I was within a certain distance of it but couldn't find it anywhere, and they had to walk me through the remaining landmarks over the phone, stuff like "do you see a blue mailbox?". I'm known in that area as "the person with the lousy sense of direction" now.

If somebody was giving me directions just over a phone I could probably find the place. I just can't take long directions all at once.

Maps are difficult because street signs and addresses and things usually used to find a road or place are usually tiny and difficult to see. If someone says it's building #209 I'm going to have a lot more difficulty finding it than someone saying it's got a big yellow sign out front. Because what is my eye naturally drawn to? The big yellow sign, not the tiny white numbers on the corner of the building.

I mean. I have better direction than most people in my family. I remember how I entered the building and therefore know where to exit, and I rarely ever lose the car. It's just that it's difficult to translate "it's to the east on this map" to "if I go this way at this intersection, it will get me to this other intersection that's closer to where I need to be."
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,903
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ENTJ
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7w8
I don't know if it's so clear-cut, Edge. I suck at techincal drawing, because I'm not clean with the pen/pencil and not good with the precise details, but I'm great at maps, better than everybody I know. However, I hate visually-oriented school learning - when learning is structured it's always better for me to have words; OTOH "real world" stuff is much better when visually-presented (and I also believe school is completely useless)...most people are just mixtures.
 

runvardh

にゃん
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
8,541
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INFP
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6w7
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sx/so
I typically look at a map, remember a few parallels and then go. I rarely have to look at the map for a check up after that. I also have a 3D map in my head of most places I often go. My learning processes are all over the map...
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
oh god... I'm a dude! :doh: and I'd thought all this time that I was female! nice of the test to set me straight I suppose...

4/20 with fingers at equal length

*for an unknown reason, whatever is secretly proud of herself for out-manning the rest of the board*

I always come out very female minded but I've got ring fingers very much longer than my index fingers, on my left hand my ring finger is almost on par with my middle finger. (assuming this is what is meant by the hand thing, I am too lazy to read the thread right now)

I can read a map if I concentrate really hard but I can't read one in a moving car.:doh:
 
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