[NT] Stupid NTs

[Hendo Barbarosa]

HOW do they have the advantage, try explaining that part

 

[Hendo Barbarosa]

pagebreak ftw

 

[entropie]

It's not sarcasm. It's a well known fact that intuitive people have an advantage in science and philosophy. I thought it was obvious.

By definition yes

 

[Ace_]

Science and philosophy require abstract thinking. N people are abstract thinkers. They are idea people which is also a big advantage in science. Science and especially philosophy require a lot of theorizing which is obviously where intuitive people excel. You're not going to discover something new if you dislike theorizing about different possibilities.

Can you name one good ISFJ scientist? Or at least an average one?

 

[Grungemouse]

It's not sarcasm. It's a well known fact that intuitive people have an advantage in science and philosophy. I thought it was obvious.

And extraverts have an advantage in careers demanding social skills, like managerial positions. But there are still exceptions.

 

[entropie]

Science and philosophy require abstract thinking. N people are abstract thinkers. They are idea people which is also a big advantage in science. Science and especially philosophy require a lot of theorizing which is obviously where intuitive people excel. You're not going to discover something new if you dislike theorizing about different possibilities.

Can you name one good ISFJ scientist? Or at least an average one?

We had that discussion way back if abstract thinking is actually what stems out of a N person. The thing is, a N person concentrates on the connections between the dots and a S person concentrates on the dots. To be an abstract thinker tho or better to do science, you have to abstract a theoretical systems from the dots.

that means you basically only have to know the dots. To derive facts, out of other facts. And not only create new connections between existing dots.

That led us to the ultimate answer to the question, why there is no Intuitive person born on the world with an intuitive or first hand understanding of Quantum Physics from birth on.

I know that's a concept that takes a big leap, but its my opinion too that it would be wrong to think N's are the only ones who are predetermined to do Science.

If you take the additional fact into account that even dominant S people got N, it maybe will work if you contribute most of the insights of Science then to the N part of their lives.

But to categorically exclude Sensors from an ability to do Science, I think is the wrong approach.

 

[nozflubber]

Of course its possible.... I mean, i totally adore mathematicians/hard science INTJs, for example, but the utter stupid simplicity with which many "intelligent" INTJs see things can make a fucking valley girl seem sophisticated and enlightened.

and hell, most of the NTs here are just as stupid when compared to any other population.... like 90% of you NT jackasses here have this same primitive need, the same useless beliefs - the need to dismiss that which you dont know. Of course NTs are stupid, they're human.

in fact, the more i think about it, i think NTs can be the easiest to spot stupidity in, because they're usually so BLATANT about it when they are. At least SPs and SJs will make an ATTEMPT to not APPEAR stupid. A review of the kinds of threads in the NT forum vs the guardhouse should be very revealling if you doubt me.... its very startling some of the stupid shit NTs believe. At least sensors are virtuous enough to FEAR being stupid - NTs seem to lack that.

 

[entropie]

Guess thats called aristocracy then back there with the SJ monarchs

 

[simulatedworld]

I think this is an oxymoron.

Now I know that intelligence varies in people more than types, however when people say there are stupid NTs, I just don't understand how that is possible.

The very personality characteristics of an NT are either developed through growing up as an intelligent person, or having NT characteristics would build a foundation for intelligence. Basically, there is no way someone could hold strategic thinking mind set, with out it leading to some type of knowledge.

If people chose to act stupid, that is a whole other story.

If you think is an oxymoron, you're either extraordinarily lucky or so stuck in NT-bias that you can't recognize any situations at all where other NTs are being stupid (and I promise you, there are many of them.)

But there's a more disturbing implication present in this statement as well, and that's that you don't seem to believe non-NT types of intelligence actually qualify as "intelligence"; again, a function of gross NT bias/inability to see outside the NT perspective.

btw,

All types hold a strategic mindset. Their strategies just differ from yours because their long term goals are not the same as yours--this doesn't mean they aren't strategists themselves. Everyone approaches life/personal interactions with his own unique strategy, everyone has at least some sort of knowledge or skill that you could learn from, and yes, believe it or not, everyone behaves rationally--he just has very very different priorities from yours.

 

[Kangirl]

I've met many "intellectuals" with ho-hum intelligence. Usually an NT dumbass who read a few books or articles and thinks he/she got it all figured out.

Yes.

And hell, most of the NTs here are just as stupid when compared to any other population.... like 90% of you NT jackasses here have this same primitive need, the same useless beliefs - the need to dismiss that which you dont know. Of course NTs are stupid, they're human.

Yes. (and I post "yes" conscious of the fact that I have almost certainly been one of those stupid NTs many times)

Related to what someone said a few pages back...A_J maybe? New poster from Finland? Anyway. I was thinking something that seems to be along the same lines. What about the concept of raw material? IQ, I suppose? Surely raw material affects intelligence? I'm not going to get into degree because I don't know, but, for example, take an INTP with an IQ of 115 and an ESFJ with an IQ of 145. Surely these 2 people exist somewhere in the world? Who's 'smarter'? I say the ESFJ is obviously smarter. But is someone going to argue the INTP is smarter because of type, and excluding IQ? And if you are going to exclude IQ and/or 'raw material' - why?

 

[LostInNerSpace]

Yes.



Yes. (and I post "yes" conscious of the fact that I have almost certainly been one of those stupid NTs many times)

Related to what someone said a few pages back...A_J maybe? New poster from Finland? Anyway. I was thinking something that seems to be along the same lines. What about the concept of raw material? IQ, I suppose? Surely raw material affects intelligence? I'm not going to get into degree because I don't know, but, for example, take an INTP with an IQ of 115 and an ESFJ with an IQ of 145. Surely these 2 people exist somewhere in the world? Who's 'smarter'? I say the ESFJ is obviously smarter. But is someone going to argue the INTP is smarter because of type, and excluding IQ? And if you are going to exclude IQ and/or 'raw material' - why?

IQ is not a measure of intelligence. You can write software to complete IO tests. Does that mean a computer would have an IQ of 10,000,000,000? Yes, I know the max is 220. What about the intelligence of the people who can write that software? IQ is a measure of potential for completing a specifiic set of mathematically oriented problems as quickly as possible.

 

[entropie]

IQ is not a measure of intelligence. You can write software to complete IO tests. Does that mean a computer would have an IQ of 10,000,000,000? Yes, I know the max is 220. What about the intelligence of the people who can write that software? IQ is a measure of potential for completing a specifiic set of mathematically oriented problems as quickly as possible.

I think Kant wasnt talking about IQ in particular. She was more talking about a possible system of measurement using IQ as an example

 

[simulatedworld]

IQ tests are grossly biased toward NT-type intelligence.

So, they are a measure of intelligence, but only one type of intelligence. Intelligence is neither linear nor singular, so the very concept of having a one-dimensional scale upon which it could be measured is ludicrous.

This probably has something to do with why NTs are such pretentious douches; we're raised being told how brilliant and special we are and so we get into this ridiculous sort of complacent mindset where we don't think we even have to try at anything. It's pretty bad.

 

[entropie]

You obviously didnt had an istp dad to keep you grounded

 

[simulatedworld]

Nope, I had an INTJ dad and an ESFJ mom who both valued scholastic success so highly that I could get everything I wanted with relatively little effort by just pwning school.

 

[entropie]

yea, sucks too ^^

 

[Thalassa]

It's the same way as there can be amoral Feelers. The basic judgement of the person is flawed, something in the way they were formed in their development was wrong. The Thinker can use their own logic excellently, but if their basic logic is flawed at it's core level they won't ever be able to stand back and see it.

Take Ayn Rand, for example.

 

[Thalassa]

Point 1: Everyone has their own brand of intelligence, yes. NTs should be able to acknowledge theirs without offending everyone else or making them feel inferior. Go ahead say it.

Admit it!



NTs are smart.....and it's okay.


They have worked hard at it, are probably naturally inclined, and are driven by intellectual pursuits. This is part of there personality. They pride themselves on their intellectual achievements. How can you deny NT intelligence?

Haters.

No one is saying that *you* are stupid, so I don't understand the hostility.

Not all NTs are brilliant.

And even the brilliant ones can be emotionally retarded, or have great theoretical ideas that are complete bombs in reality.

 

[entropie]

Not all NTs are brilliant.

But I am brilliant, aint I ?

 

[Thalassa]

But I am brilliant, aint I ?

Oh yes, of course you are.