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[NT] NT & religions (& God)

niki

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I have a curious question:
how does NT view religions?
what is the NT's notions of "God" ? can NT be as 'spiritual/religious' as most NF seems to be ?

and what does NT think , specifically, of Christianity concept of God? does it make sense? is it acceptable, or it is not acceptable for NT's rationale? and what's the reasons?

and for some unknown reason, is it true that NT's are more interested towards the New-Age-ism, or Buddhism, Hinduism, or even pantheism notion of "God" , rather than those Abrahamic religions (ie: Islam, Christianity, Judaism) ?
does this have anything to do at all with one being an "NT" (as opposed to an SJ, or ST, or NF, etc ) ?
 

The Ü™

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I am God.

I am the power of Christ. And much like Christ, I love the little children...they are delicious.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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I am God. I am the power of Christ. And much like Christ, I love the little children...they are delicious.

Oh, mighty Cthulhu -- please eat me first so that I might not suffer the long and bloody period of tribulation!
 

The Ü™

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You will suffer a long, bloody period of a different sort...
 

Mendacity

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I am God.

I am the power of Christ. And much like Christ, I love the little children...they are delicious.

I enjoy you Uberfuhrer.

I have a curious question:
how does NT view religions?
what is the NT's notions of "God" ? can NT be as 'spiritual/religious' as most NF seems to be ?

I think every NT you ask will have a different answer to this. I believe in something, but I don't think it's possible for humans to understand it. I'm not a fan of organized religion.
 

Veneti

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I have a curious question:
how does NT view religions?
what is the NT's notions of "God" ? can NT be as 'spiritual/religious' as most NF seems to be ?

and what does NT think , specifically, of Christianity concept of God? does it make sense? is it acceptable, or it is not acceptable for NT's rationale? and what's the reasons?

and for some unknown reason, is it true that NT's are more interested towards the New-Age-ism, or Buddhism, Hinduism, or even pantheism notion of "God" , rather than those Abrahamic religions (ie: Islam, Christianity, Judaism) ?
does this have anything to do at all with one being an "NT" (as opposed to an SJ, or ST, or NF, etc ) ?

Well, I'd expect most NT's to have a rational concept to justify their position on God / Religion etc.

Me, I know there are planetary systems 10b years older than ours.. and as such there could be life forms 10b years more advanced. I'd expect over that time they could lose the need for a physical presence (as it’s inefficient) and as such they could attain a God like status (to us).

One interesting concept I had, is that Aliens could believe in God because they might not even be able to point to the reason of their existence, perhaps that’s why they haven't come along invaded our planet and probed us all :D.

Seriously though, I'm open to most concepts, I just need some verifiable proof before I jump headlong into participating in a notional belief.
 

Athenian200

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I really don't know about NT's. If they grew up in a culture or family where religion was very pervasive, I think they might be just as faithful as any other type. But I will say that I personally have trouble with a lot of the cut and dried ideas of God that most people accept. I would presume that with NT's, that would be even more pronounced because of their tendency to be so logical. I need only the right emotional justification, and I can't even find enough for that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm open to the possibility that a God might exist, but I don't feel comfortable behaving as if I know anything about such a being without any basis for that faith. I don't think less of people who do have strong faith, and would even be willing to pray with them if I'm asked to. After all, it makes them feel better, and I can't know that they aren't right.

I quote Han Solo here, about how I'm tempted to think: "I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. No mystical energy field controls my destiny."
 

Totenkindly

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I was raised in a very pervasive conservative Christian subculture, so in essence I accepted what I was being told as true. While I had doubts about some of the specific interpretations and doctrines, I was still able to see potential patterns in nature. Conservative Christianity seems possible, perhaps even plausible.

As I got older and looked at things from other points of view -- even starting from scratch -- I saw that things were not nearly as clear-cut as I had hoped, and "hard evidence" was not nearly as pervasive. But much of my worldview was still based on Christian thought, and I had grown to value aspects of the Christian faith.

At the moment, I am not sure who or what God is. I know who I would like him to be. I just am not in a position where I ever want to be proselytizing or evangelizing or telling people what they are supposed to believe, ever again. I want to help them think through things for themselves and draw their own conclusions. I am an explorer, not a police officer.

Trying to do more than that is what had left me agonizing for years -- feeling like I had very much lost my intellectual integrity. I realized that, for me, I had to leave many things more ambiguous and open-ended to feel that I was being honest.

I would not be surprised if NTs struggled in general with this. What I have seen are three groups: Those who are brought up in the faith and see fine with the level of "proof" they have and rely on patterns to support their faith; those who are neutral and see positives/negatives but remain mostly agnostic; and those who are hardcore in the other direction and seemingly angry at religion or think of it very negatively because it offends their intellectual sensibilities. (perhaps there are other stances, but I know I have seen those in play.)
 

Maverick

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I have a curious question:

Curiosity is a good thing.

how does NT view religions?

I would guess as yet another subject of analysis, susceptible to be dissected using sociology and psychology.

what is the NT's notions of "God" ?

Probably a social construct would be a common answer

can NT be as 'spiritual/religious' as most NF seems to be ?

I can't think of a reason why they could not

and what does NT think , specifically, of Christianity concept of God?

This one here thinks there's no way of knowing anything about its veracity.

does it make sense?

Maybe it does?

is it acceptable, or it is not acceptable for NT's rationale?

Neither

and what's the reasons?

Insufficient data to form a conclusion

and for some unknown reason, is it true that NT's are more interested towards the New-Age-ism, or Buddhism, Hinduism, or even pantheism notion of "God" , rather than those Abrahamic religions (ie: Islam, Christianity, Judaism) ?

I don't see any reason against this.

does this have anything to do at all with one being an "NT" (as opposed to an SJ, or ST, or NF, etc ) ?

It has to do with being N. N's tend to be more open to experience as defined in big 5 models of personality. People high in this dimension are more likely to explore other belief systems. People extreme in this dimension tend to hold fantastical and non-sensical beliefs.
 

ptgatsby

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It has to do with being N. N's tend to be more open to experience as defined in big 5 models of personality. People high in this dimension are more likely to explore other belief systems. People extreme in this dimension tend to hold fantastical and non-sensical beliefs.

I should point out that within MBTI, it is along the J/P access that seems to define opinion and openness to religion, or at least, Christianity (dominant religion in some studies). In short, Ps question.

Most notably it was ISTPs that were most anti-religion by a fair margin, which I found interesting. NTs were not particularily open or closed to religion as a whole or specifically.
 

Totenkindly

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Most notably it was ISTPs that were most anti-religion by a fair margin, which I found interesting. NTs were not particularily open or closed to religion as a whole or specifically.

One possibility -- the tertiary Ni of ISTP would be skeptical if not cynical about religion in general ("What's 'the system' trying to get me to believe?"), and this is what I've seen with the few ISTPs here on MBTIc (indifference or aggression towards religious belief... as if the system is mere exploitative).

If the INTP is brought up in Christian faith, this gets incorporated into Si. And the pattern-seeking Ne will often identify with the themes of the faith (and thus buy into it), even if some specific doctrine seems sketchy in places and ends up being rejected because it's illogical.
 

ptgatsby

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One possibility -- the tertiary Ni of ISTP would be skeptical if not cynical about religion in general ("What's 'the system' trying to get me to believe?"), and this is what I've seen with the few ISTPs here on MBTIc (indifference or aggression towards religious belief... as if the system is mere exploitative).

If the INTP is brought up in Christian faith, this gets incorporated into Si. And the pattern-seeking Ne will often identify with the themes of the faith (and thus buy into it), even if some specific doctrine seems sketchy in places and ends up being rejected because it's illogical.

Great MBTI explanation :D

I believe it is a conjuction of two traits - the Ss tend to test as "concrete" along with "Open ended", this results in "show it, god damn it" (or not, I guess). These subtraits are more direct to creating a closed mind to fancy-pancy theories of possibilities, yet still open to showing them, after which they'll likely change.

Since most religions are really crappy at showing tangible proof of god without some pretty heavy abstractions - not hands on stuff, theories on theories - STPs just sit at the crossroads of "can't show me" and "don't tell me what to do/think". I know that is where I sit, anyway. I can have conversations about religion but it always comes down to "Your people suck, hence your religion sucks"... along with "Yah, that doesn't prove that God does exist... and your religion still sucks". The evidence of formal religion tends to be rather negative overall from a strictly "preach -> do"... since the good stuff gets filtered out by "don't tell me what to do".
 

Maverick

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I should point out that within MBTI, it is along the J/P access that seems to define opinion and openness to religion, or at least, Christianity (dominant religion in some studies). In short, Ps question.

Most notably it was ISTPs that were most anti-religion by a fair margin, which I found interesting. NTs were not particularily open or closed to religion as a whole or specifically.

While what you say is true, note that the term used was "other belief systems". Indeed, research does show that, if anything, it is people high in conscientiousness (and agreeableness) that tend to be the most religious.

The problem is that, in studies exploring transcendental beliefs, there is mostly a focus on populations that adhere to more traditional belief systems already prevalent in their culture. People into alternative belief systems than those of their culture fall into another category, that remains untapped in majority by the studies that mention that high A and C are linked to religiosity.

It is a high openness to experience that is in fact linked to exploring alternate belief systems and esoterism, as was alluded by the OP when talking about New Age and pantheism, and which was the point your were specifically responding to.
 

ptgatsby

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It is a high openness to experience that is in fact linked to exploring alternate belief systems and esoterism, as was alluded by the OP when talking about New Age and pantheism, and which was the point your were specifically responding to.

Eh, what I meant is that the correlation between MBTI and FFM may not be as close as the major correlation would suggest for this subset of beliefs.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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I have a curious question:
how does NT view religions?
what is the NT's notions of "God" ? can NT be as 'spiritual/religious' as most NF seems to be ?

and what does NT think , specifically, of Christianity concept of God? does it make sense? is it acceptable, or it is not acceptable for NT's rationale? and what's the reasons?

and for some unknown reason, is it true that NT's are more interested towards the New-Age-ism, or Buddhism, Hinduism, or even pantheism notion of "God" , rather than those Abrahamic religions (ie: Islam, Christianity, Judaism) ?
does this have anything to do at all with one being an "NT" (as opposed to an SJ, or ST, or NF, etc ) ?

Does Christianity make sense? Looking at it from a modern humanistic view it probably does not. I did not believe in God for most of my life, and one big reason is that it didn't seem to make any sense. Christianity in particular seemed to make the least sense. I thought, "if any religion in the world is right, it certainly cannot be Christianity". Instead I tried to reason what was the right way to live, and what was true in this world. Relying solely on reason lead me only to depression and meaninglessness.

After exhausting what I viewed as the reasonable alternatives, I turned to the unreasonable ones. After all if there is no reasonable explanation available, then the correct explanation must be unreasonable. And to make a long story short (too late) I found the Christian message to be the one that actually works. Now I am a Christian. I am not a Christian because I have faith in Christianity or because I have faith in Christians. I am a Christian because of my faith in Christ. Christ (and his grace) is what makes Christianity worthwhile. It's not because of anything coming from morality, or going to church, or any promise of heaven. Those things are helpful, but they don't make Christianity worthwhile. Christ does.
 

Ms. M

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I'm a Christian INTJ, and I agree with what the Liquid Laser says in the second paragraph of the above explanation. That being said, I don't particularly believe in organized religion (my faith is about my relationship with God and Christ, not my ability to sit through a sermon.) I also don't take the Bible literally, I think many things in the Bible are meant to be metaphors. For example, I don't believe there is a Satan, or a physical Heaven or Hell. I believe "Heaven" is being in the presence of God, "Hell" is being in the absence of God's presence, and "Satan" is a metaphor of inherent temptation. But that's just me, I wouldn't speak for other Christians or other NTs.
 

INTJMom

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I am a devout Christian.
I have thought of God as important in my life since I was 4 years of age.
 

cafe

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I met my INTP spouse at an Evangelical Bible college. We are both still believers despite the Bible college experience. :blink:
 

SolitaryWalker

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I met my INTP spouse at an Evangelical Bible college. We are both still believers despite the Bible college experience. :blink:

Does your INTP sincerely believe still? Or is that just an hold habit that he's passed up in favor of superior philosophical beliefs?

If he does, what exactly motivates him?

NTs tend to have difficulty finding inspiration to maintain their religious fervor because they tend to be impersonally inspired to live their lives the way they chose. An NF, I could understand how they'd retain their religious beliefs for a long period of time, as they need a personal reason to inspire their actions. As for example, believing that there is a being who loves them and would approve of their every action if they pleased him would likely suffice. This is much like their relationship with a parent or a spouse. I am not surprised that religious belief is much more common among Fs than Ts and even NFs who are much more in tune with reason than the majority of the populace stand a considerable chance of being life-long Christians. Yet, I just wonder how NTs, especially INTPs or ENTJs--the radical thinkers manage it, without feeling like it all has been a terrible drudger to bare.

Would appreciate if you'd let me know more of his general approach to Christianity and how he finds the motivation to remain in faith. Does he not become envious of other NTs who have the great liberty to explore ideas that he does not, being tied to religion like a dog to a chain?

I have an older ENTP friend who is a senior pastor at a pentacoste church, recently we've discussed my philosophical discoveries after losing faith. He has not told me about his mindset, but we connected much better after this. He even made a comment that implicitly suggested that because of his fascination with chaos theories, he likes messing with the minds of SJs by asking open-minded questions and being as intuitive as possible and thus stirring them into a panic. Whilst, because of his mastery with persona building (skills associated with dominant Ne), they can not come after him because he successfully passed himself off as their fellow fundamentalist.

In short, he is compelled to keep on searching for reasons to keep his faith (it all has to come from within for him because his Ti is strong, just like for myself, and it all has to be founded on impersonal motives) because of all the emotional obligations that he is environed in in his church--stemming from his inferior Fe, yet cannot find any genuine reasons to do so, as he is stuck in the mud. He certainly envied me for how I was able to explore ideas without wondering what orthodoxy I've just crossed. He is tied to his religious worldview like a dog to a chain. And he is an intensely externally focused ENTP, I would never wish such an evil to happen to an INTP, a type that tends to produce personalities that are likely more idea oriented than he is.
 
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