[NT] What do you hate about non-rationals?

[Saslou]

I agree, my hatred for ignorant people is born out of being frustrated that they cannot see.

We see just fine darling.

The biggest problem with non-rationals is the additional difficulty in accepting arguments which are based on evidence and logic, instead of "common sense" or feelings.

Was 'the' evidence and logic not born in a sense possibly from common sense and feelings?
It's OK going from A-H, but you are missing out what lead to H.

 

[poppy]

Wait...what exactly are we talking about? Non-rationals as in non-NTs...or irrational people? And who are you to judge who's "stupid"?

I mean don't get me wrong, I've definitely met people I found annoying/stupid. But what's the point of griping about it on the internet?

 

[Tallulah]

Well, I do know one thing, OP. You're never going to have a productive discussion about religion if you come to it having already decided that the other party is ignorant, and that only your logical arguments have any value. In fact, I knew that by the time I hit high school. Why is it so important that you convince them they're "wrong?"

 

[iwakar]

This isn't about argueing points, I've learned in life thats useless.
I would just like to hear what other people hate about non-rationals, but specific examples as opposed to general themes.

I hate the way my Christian friend argues, he quotes direct verses from the bible, and uses metaphors that have flaws, but when I directly quote the bible to raise a different point, or to back up my arguement its "taking it out of context" and bringing up a point is "twisting his words".
I hate how he uses circular logic,
"I know God Exists"
"How"
"Because He Exists"

I hate how people ignore the facts, and how they WANT to be deluded, they WANT to delude themselves. They believe fallacies, but when given evidence that it may be wrong they ignore it, and dont look it up themselves.

Such fallacies include things such as "There are only three forms of matter" to "America was founded as a Christain country"
Not to mention I've heard people rationalize invading Iraq because "We've killed Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein (this was like 4 years ago, before we DID kill him) so we ARE winning and should keep going" to "Its okay to hate pakistan because they bombed us."

WHAT?!?

Not to mention people that think gays shouldn't get married because of
1.) Tradition (Whos tradition? Christians?)
2.) Because the definition of marriage is "A man and a woman" (Again, whos definition?)
3.) Its unnatural (Even though homosexuality happens alot in nature and and i don't hear them bitching about going to the bathroom in a toilet, which is VERY unnatural)
and whatever else, completelly ignoring the fact that athiests can get married, that people who are NOT going to have children can get married and that there ARE other religions where homosexuality are ok.
It isn't right to make others follow the rules of YOUR religion.
And they don't even comprehend what point I try to make.

Blah.

I hope these are merely personal examples and you're not actually relegating all of those opinions to F-doms at large?

 

[Lightyear]

Well, I do know one thing, OP. You're never going to have a productive discussion about religion if you come to it having already decided that the other party is ignorant, and that only your logical arguments have any value. In fact, I knew that by the time I hit high school. Why is it so important that you convince them they're "wrong?"

I've been around the kind of religious people the OP is complaining about and I have to say he has a point. As much as I don't like admitting it since I am a Christian myself I have to say that in quite a few churches there is a lemming mentality going on. People don't think for themselves too much and you can predict their arguments and reasoning easily since they seem to be stuck in some sort of religious thinking loop.

But as an NF I am somehow fine if things don't always make logical sense, I am just often content if something "feels" right. I have a Thinking-friend who has gone all fundamentalist atheist on me (after reading a bit too much of Richard Dawkins) and descredits belief because miracles, God etc don't fit into his logical mindset. To me he actually looks like someone who has taken his thinking side to such an extreme that he is now stuck in a box and I feel sorry for him. He is so concerned with things being logical that he can't see any other way of perceiving the world and has lost a sense of wonder, he reminds me of one of my favourite quotes by G.K Chesteron: "Poets do not go crazy but chess players do."

 

[violet_crown]

I hate when I have 50 examples for any point I make when in conversations with ST friends. The lack of N connection is difficult for me period though. It feels like describing color to the blind sometimes.

 

[iwakar]

I've been around the kind of religious people the OP is complaining about and I have to say he has a point. As much as I don't like admitting it since I am a Christian myself I have to say that in quite a few churches there is a lemming mentality going on. People don't think for themselves too much and you can predict their arguments and reasoning easily since they seem to be stuck in some sort of religious thinking loop.

We have several open NT Christians on these boards. I'm an agnostic NF.

By his own standards, I'm not seeing the connection F-dom = unreasonable if religion is his point of contention.

 

[Lethe]

Here are a couple of habits that can potentially make inter-type communication a challenge:

Dominate/Auxiliary Feeling Preferences:
- The tendency to assume their interpretation of another's intent is correct without explicit affirmation, sometimes lead to unproductive arguments about what is not said.* For an example, criticism is seen as a character attack instead of a non-personal observation or a chance for improvement.

(*This does happen with other NTs, yet to a lesser frequency and intensity.)

Dominate/Auxiliary Sensing Preferences:
- My participation within sensing versus intuition conflicts are rare because I switch to mainly using Te to express my thoughts. When they do occur, it's typically attributed to myself convincing them to see the benefits of working towards what will be, rather than settling for what is.

Because if I allowed myself to get as wound up as you are about other people and how they think, I'd be acting just as irrational and stupid as they are. Autopilot + smile and nod + walk away + ignore = happy me.

Perhaps. It's not how much one feels, it's how they choose to carry out their emotions that holds the greater impact on the results.

A peace of mind isn't necessary to make good judgments, though it can certainly make them more accessible. Hatred, frustration, disappointment, etc. could all be used as a tool of introspection -- to detect other ineffective thoughts and behaviors, and replace them with better alternatives that satisfies the negative feeling. (This marks the endpoint of one pattern and the starting point of another.) I personally see getting 'wound up' as a temporary emotional indicator which contains the opportunity to transform, only if the person is willing to see it. The intensity of this indicator determines the situation's importance to an individual. In the face of hatred, there's a decision to let it either consume you or work with you.

 

[SubjectA]

What do you mean be non-rational people? Do you mean none NT's or stupid people all across the spectrum? Because NT's are very capable of being just a stupid as SP's, NF's, and SJ's. Whoever doesn't think so needs to get their head out of their own ass.

And last of all, why do you even care what other people believe and why? INTP's really are the whiners of the rationals...

 

[chegra]

I dont have a problem with people who aren't all that rational.

Guess it was an evolutionary mechanism, since alot of people behave in that manner.

 

[Valuable_Money]

This isn't about argueing points, I've learned in life thats useless.
I would just like to hear what other people hate about non-rationals, but specific examples as opposed to general themes.

I hate the way my Christian friend argues, he quotes direct verses from the bible, and uses metaphors that have flaws, but when I directly quote the bible to raise a different point, or to back up my arguement its "taking it out of context" and bringing up a point is "twisting his words".
I hate how he uses circular logic,
"I know God Exists"
"How"
"Because He Exists"

I hate how people ignore the facts, and how they WANT to be deluded, they WANT to delude themselves. They believe fallacies, but when given evidence that it may be wrong they ignore it, and dont look it up themselves.

Such fallacies include things such as "There are only three forms of matter" to "America was founded as a Christain country"
Not to mention I've heard people rationalize invading Iraq because "We've killed Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein (this was like 4 years ago, before we DID kill him) so we ARE winning and should keep going" to "Its okay to hate pakistan because they bombed us."

WHAT?!?

Not to mention people that think gays shouldn't get married because of
1.) Tradition (Whos tradition? Christians?)
2.) Because the definition of marriage is "A man and a woman" (Again, whos definition?)
3.) Its unnatural (Even though homosexuality happens alot in nature and and i don't hear them bitching about going to the bathroom in a toilet, which is VERY unnatural)
and whatever else, completelly ignoring the fact that athiests can get married, that people who are NOT going to have children can get married and that there ARE other religions where homosexuality are ok.
It isn't right to make others follow the rules of YOUR religion.
And they don't even comprehend what point I try to make.

Blah.

Lets see what my handy dandy Post-Condenser 3000tm
has to say:


Im thinly veiling my rant about christianity as somthing related to MBTI.
The only way anyone could believe anything I dont believe is if they are irrational.

Also:

"We've killed Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein (this was like 4 years ago, before we DID kill him) so we ARE winning and should keep going"

Wat

 

[iwakar]

Lets see what my handy dandy Post-Condenser 3000tm
has to say:


Im thinly veiling my rant about christianity as somthing related to MBTI.
The only way anyone could believe anything I dont believe is if they are irrational.

Also:

"We've killed Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein (this was like 4 years ago, before we DID kill him) so we ARE winning and should keep going"

Wat

Hurray, you effectively translated the NTP-ese! But I'm still going

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Lets see what my handy dandy Post-Condenser 3000tm
has to say:


Im thinly veiling my rant about christianity as somthing related to MBTI.
The only way anyone could believe anything I dont believe is if they are irrational.

:yim_rolling_on_the_