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[NT] NTs Views on family values

poppy

triple nerd score
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
2,215
MBTI Type
intj
Enneagram
5
I'm fairly close to my parents and grandparents, but I don't see much of anyone else. I wouldn't mind getting to know them, I'm actually very interested in my extended family. I've always considered myself to value family loyalty and closeness, but when I think about it, it's only because I lucked out with a group of fairly non-neurotic people, and my mother (ISFJ) raised me in close proximity to my cousins and grandfolks so I'm familiar with them. If I didn't know them so well, I probably wouldn't care (as evidenced whenever someone marries into the family-I tend to either dislike them or feel neutrally about them).
 

yowhatup

New member
Joined
Jun 10, 2009
Messages
8
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
33.1
i have a profuse dislike for my nuclear family members (all SJs)
even though i still live in the house where my parents and younger brother do, i feel estranged from what you might call my family
they're more like the three other people whom i have to live in a house with
i have nothing in common with them
except the quasi-constant disagreement; i can't actively disagree with them on a constant basis because i avoid them and their short-sighted judgement
 

Orangey

Blah
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
6,354
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
6w5
Same.

The only family members I like, are individuals I'd choose to be acquainted with even if we didn't share genes. I find it irrational to be close to anyone because I'm "supposed to".

I agree with this.
 

Tallulah

Emerging
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
6,009
MBTI Type
INTP
I'm close to my immediate family, and would do anything for them--and they would for me. I adored my grandparents, and always made a point to go and visit them regularly when they were alive. I have a couple of aunts and uncles and cousins that I enjoy, and some that annoy me. I don't feel a lot of obligation to extended family. I do think family is important, though--it's been a very comforting thing to have people love you even when they don't always understand you, and know that they'll always be there. It would hurt me greatly if my SO hated my family and never wanted to be around them.
 

kelric

Feline Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
2,169
MBTI Type
INtP
I tend not to really have much of a concept of "family". Instead, I have a collection of individuals I consider myself related to. This almost certainly comes from the fact that I've never lived anywhere near any family members but my nuclear family, and my nuclear family broke up with I was... 14? I currently don't live anywhere near any of them (and haven't for years) so I think that there's more separation there than for most people. I recently went back "home" for a few days, and had the first "family" experience I'd had in maybe... 10 years? Although you could consider it the first in something like 25 years, if you discount divorce-stress stuff.

I'd say that I get along with non-nuclear family members when I see them, but that I don't really know them (it's by no means unusual to go 5 years without any contact whatsoever). Any interactions we've ever had (even when I was toddler-age) has been with my Mom/Dad present, so I tend to see them not as "my" relatives, but as people who are related to people I'm related to.

So I don't think I'm really helping to the conversation much, other than to say that I think that there are many issues aside from personality that affect such things. Any true meaning may get lost in the noise, so to speak. Having said that, my sister (who's had as close a similar upbringing as anyone could to me) is much more in touch with family members and family issues. But she's not a shut-in recluse either ;). So I guess you could say that I love my individual nuclear family members a lot (and care about the welfare of my extended family through my relationships to nuclear relatives), but don't have much sense of family itself.
 

Lightyear

New member
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
899
Reading through all the responses the general feeling I am left with is that NTs are rather cold and rational when it comes to their families, not too much emotional investment there. (Of course there are exceptions.)

My mum is an INTJ and my brother is an INTP and they haven't spoken to each other for years. My brother is an arrogant person who talks too much and has wild ideas but not much to show for (he is also one of the reasons why I am slightly prejudiced towards INTPs, he is just a bad example of one: cold, no social skills, arrogant, only takes and doesn't understand the concept of building a relationship by giving once in a while, whiner), my mum however is like my best friend, we get on great.

Several people in my family don't talk to each other at the moment (my ESTJ grandmum and my mum, my ESTJ stepdad and my ESTJ gran) and it feels like me and my real dad (ISFJ) are the only ones who function as peacemakers and still talk to everyone.

In my experience a family consisting only of (N)Ts could quite easily fall into a pit of never-ever-talking-to-each other-again-land, it seems that somehow the grease that keeps human interactions going would be in very short supply, like making an effort to contact a family member from time to time to find out how they are, remembering things like birthdays, being forgiving instead of insisting that you are right, being able to overlook weaknesses in order to save the relationship, sometimes doing something sacrifical in order to strenghten the relationship etc. I am not saying that Ts are not capable of these things but by what I have seen I am many times more a natural at human interaction and at building relationships and keeping them flourishing than my T-family members.
 

Alwar

The Architect
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
922
MBTI Type
INTP
I can't wait to start a family of my own. Had a Mexican-American friend in high school, the cultural differences between them and typical mid-western German/Polish family were striking. They seemed to have celebrations every week, the siblings were all friends as well as the cousins, and the entire Mexican community knew each other. Very tight knit. That is the sort of environment I would want for my own kids and family.
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Blood is not important to me. I do not feel that I am obliged to treat my family members any better than non-family members of equal merit.

I also do not feel compelled to see my family. I frequently do, but that's just circumstantial. If I happened to move far away from my family members, and did not need them for anything practical, I would likely not mind it.
 

Grungemouse

Widdles in your cream.
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
577
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5
Mum: ESTJ
Dad: INTP
Older brother: ESTP (but he's left home, thank God)

I currently live at home (waiting for Uni and all that), and I live in an SJ-dominant environment. That is, the mother is in charge whilst the father and I just go along with it. We know better than to argue. :p Not that she's tyrannical or anything. I hear posts dotted around the Forum saying things like, "Omg if I had an ESTJ for a parent I'd probably kill myself". Well yes, she's always been a strict parent, but she did her best to keep us well disciplined. SJ types use the past to determine their style of parenting, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to follow their parents style. My mum had a rough childhood, where domestic violence was a common theme. When they went on holiday, the father always chose to go where he wanted, so my mum spent vacations in a farmers field in a caravan, and no facilities for children. So, she took his style of parenting on board and basically went the opposite. Because she was bored stiff on her holidays, she made sure that whenever we went on holiday there was a kids club, or at least a park. She also asked us (even as children) where we would want to go. It wasn't a case of, "We're spending the weekend in a caravan, kids. Like it or lump it".

I don't have strong family values, but I've been brought up to respect the rules of the household because my parents are the breadwinners and own the house. So at least I've been told why I should respect my parents, rather than the conventional "Because I said so". Therefore I do respect them because their reason makes sense to me.

My parents both came from working class and worked hard to get to where they are now- a comfortable lower-middle class status, two cars, two dogs, and a cottage in a surburbanised village. Because of this I've been brought up in a T-orientated environment that values a strong work ethic above all else, so laziness is not tolerated at all. My parents have recently severed themselves financially from my brother because he won't get a job, and he keeps asking them to "lend" him money for a deposit in a house. They tell me that they won't bother supporting me in any way if I don't get a job, because they want me to be economically independent as soon as possible. In some ways I think I'm lucky because I've been brought up to value money and work hard for it, so I'm satisfied with their parenting overall. Other times I just feel under pressure not to fail, which was probably what sparked episodes of "reality withdrawal" during my A levels, where exam stress was rampant. But I still love them.

I hate my brother though. He was a domineering, bully of a brother and made it perfectly clear that he wished he never had a sister. Worst of all, instead of leaving home and finally making a living for himself, he's decided to develop a parasitic relationship with the parents wallet. This is his so-called definition of "breaking out from the oppressor that is mum". Whilst I quietly accepted my mum's militaristic style of parenting (why fight against the current? Struggling only tires you out :p) he clashed against it and was even stupid enough to start smoking because he knew she wouldn't approve. What's most lulzy about this is that he's asthmatic. What a dumb arse.

... I can actually hear my mother talking from the above posts. :doh:

What I'm trying to say is that I got on with my parents but hated my brother.
 

Lightyear

New member
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
899
I can't wait to start a family of my own. Had a Mexican-American friend in high school, the cultural differences between them and typical mid-western German/Polish family were striking. They seemed to have celebrations every week, the siblings were all friends as well as the cousins, and the entire Mexican community knew each other. Very tight knit. That is the sort of environment I would want for my own kids and family.

I feel the same. (Despite my introversion and need for personal space.)
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
1,992
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w9
My take on family values: Appreciate them, love them (if they deserve it, because they are not automatically better people just because they are your mom, dad or sibling) and do try to rise to the occasion, since that's what I'd generally try to do for people I care for. But don't make them apart of your decision making process. And that's key and the only way I could imagine having a healthy relationship with my family. Up to a certain age you have to, of cause, but I'm 23 now and that age has long passed. Also, I think it is important, for your own development, to not feel like you owe them anything. I get pissed when people think that I'm obligated to feel a certain way, or do a certain thing for them - "because they are your family". Honestly, that statement doesn't make much sense to me, and I don't think I understand it.
 

Verfremdungseffekt

videodrones; questions
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
866
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INTp
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5w4
Mm. It's not like anyone ever asked to be born. One can be grateful to be born into a circumstance where one happened to be treated well, until such a point as one was self-sufficient. But I don't see where obligation comes into that. No one signed a contract.

As for me, now I have to deal with this damned life, almost completely unprepared. I can be grateful that I wasn't treated more poorly, as so many people are. And that is something. But that's about all there is.

And I'm going to be saddled with this for, what, another fifty years, maybe? Thanks, guys. Now get away from me and let me figure this out.
 

Verfremdungseffekt

videodrones; questions
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
866
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INTp
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5w4
In retrospect, it's kind of interesting that my father would on a daily basis drum into me how lucky I was that he didn't beat me. Not everyone was fortunate enough to grow up under those conditions, he'd tell me.

And, well. Technically he was correct.
 

Grungemouse

Widdles in your cream.
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
577
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5
In retrospect, it's kind of interesting that my father would on a daily basis drum into me how lucky I was that he didn't beat me. Not everyone was fortunate enough to grow up under those conditions, he'd tell me.

And, well. Technically he was correct.

You should have retorted with, "Wow, you're lucky you didn't beat me as well. Because when you're old and too frail to look after yourself, I'm the one in charge of your welfare. Later on we'll see who 'fell down the stairs'." :D
 

Verfremdungseffekt

videodrones; questions
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
866
MBTI Type
INTp
Enneagram
5w4
Nice thought. Wouldn't work. Too much of a guilt complex going on.

Not allowed to complain about anything or hope for better because however bad it gets it'll never be the worst possible scenario. Also, there's nothing I can do about it.

This lesson has served me well in later life.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
1,992
MBTI Type
ENTJ
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8w9
Mm. It's not like anyone ever asked to be born. One can be grateful to be born into a circumstance where one happened to be treated well, until such a point as one was self-sufficient. But I don't see where obligation comes into that. No one signed a contract.

My thoughts exactly. And honestly, I was thinking about this yesterday. Life, existence, is like this gift that you never asked for. Like the huge easel your grandmother gave you last Christmas, that you never wished for, and now she wants you to "do something with it". (gah pressure, expectations). You can either try to paint something nice on it, sell it, make a profit. Or you can ignore it, let it stay in the corner and collect dust. Or, you can return it. Either way, it's yours now and you can do whatever the hell you want with it. Because if I knew that life was a gift that came with strings attached, I would have never accepted it.
 

Fluffywolf

Nips away your dignity
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
9,581
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Family values have to come from both sides. Therefor, I do not value family-ship, but rather choose to either respect or disrespect a family member based on his/her worth.
 
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