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[INTP] Rant on INTPs

GreyDeath

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I get so pissy when I'm discussing something with someone and they don't interpret my words in terms of context, or they paraphrase me in a way that might sound similar but changes the nuance of my comment.

I second that one.


I remember that a while back I was having the cats vs dogs discussion with a friend and I told him that I didn't like dogs (he's a dog person). A few months later, it came up in conversation with a coworker and he claimed that I "hated dogs." I tried to explain that its that I didn't like dogs, not that I hated dogs.

He said its the same thing, of course its not, but he wouldn't budge. It pisses me off when someone doest get the subtle meanings and differences in words/phrases. Hate implies a passionate dislike for something whereas not liking something simply means there is an absence of "like" (forgive me, Its early in the AM). I think he took not liking to mean the same as disliking. Its not the same, it cant be that hard to figure that one out can it? Could me saying "I don't dislike dogs" mean the same as I love dogs?

A little rant but since were on the topic of meaning/misinterpretation of words.
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
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Apr 24, 2007
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9w8
I thought we didnt dig things having to be "just so" or there being only one way to do something (like only one spelling for a word).
:whistling:

Some of us were trained to appreciate it... mind you that doesn't mean I can actually assemble the energy to do it or keep it going...
 

Xander

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I remember that a while back I was having the cats vs dogs discussion with a friend and I told him that I didn't like dogs (he's a dog person). A few months later, it came up in conversation with a coworker and he claimed that I "hated dogs." I tried to explain that its that I didn't like dogs, not that I hated dogs.

He said its the same thing, of course its not, but he wouldn't budge. It pisses me off when someone doest get the subtle meanings and differences in words/phrases. Hate implies a passionate dislike for something whereas not liking something simply means there is an absence of "like" (forgive me, Its early in the AM). I think he took not liking to mean the same as disliking. Its not the same, it cant be that hard to figure that one out can it? Could me saying "I don't dislike dogs" mean the same as I love dogs?

A little rant but since were on the topic of meaning/misinterpretation of words.

A question to challenge your standpoint old chap.

Who's interpretation of the term 'dislike' is correct and why?
 

Blackmail!

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Could me saying "I don't dislike dogs" mean the same as I love dogs?

Well, it could be interpreted as a classic Litotes, a form of understatement.

Don't always blame the others... ;)
 

GreyDeath

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A question to challenge your standpoint old chap.

Who's interpretation of the term 'dislike' is correct and why?

I dont think our interpretations of "dislike" were different. He took not liking to mean dislike/hate (I think he might have been exaggerating for effect) and I agree that dislike is close to hate, but "not liking" means that you do not like it; that there is no appeal in it for you, but also that there is not necessarily an aversion to it. If I were to say "I dont hate it" would that mean I love it or prefer it? No, it would mean an absence of hate/dislike. The same is true for "I dont like it" it doesnt mean that I hate it or dislike it, there is simply an absence of preference/like for it.

I have nothing against dogs (in fact I do like them now), simply put, if someone asked me at that time in the past "do you like dogs?" I would have replied "no." Meaning I wouldn't qualify my feelings for dogs as warm and fuzzy. Similarly, if someone followed the question with, "then do you dislike/hate them?" I would also reply "no." When I say "I dont like" I mean, it does nothing for me, it is the truest form of neutrality...I mean meh.

In short, a visual conception of all of this follows:

hate-----dislike-----neutral-----like-----love

hate and love are opposite at either end, like and dislike (antonyms) are opposite as well, only less extreme, and between them is neutrality...the absence of hate/love and dislike/like. When someone doesnt like something, they may very well also not dislike it (as is my case) and their feeling for it falls in the middle, neutral, an absence of positive or negative feelings for something.

Make sense?
 

Blackmail!

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I have nothing against dogs (in fact I do like them now), simply put, if someone asked me at that time in the past "do you like dogs?" I would have replied "no." Meaning I wouldn't qualify my feelings for dogs as warm and fuzzy. Similarly, if someone followed the question with, "then do you dislike/hate them?" I would also reply "no." When I say "I dont like" I mean, it does nothing for me, it is the truest form of neutrality...I mean meh.

(...)

Make sense?

No, it doesn't.

Over-all, your answers lack context.

If your feelings towards dogs are neutral, then you shouldn't just answer "No", because as I said, in classic conversation, it is perceived as a dislike. Alone, it's a bluntly negative statement.

A truly neutral answer could have been, for instance:

"Not especially", "fairly", "moderatly", and so on...
 

GreyDeath

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No, it doesn't.

Over-all, your answers lack context.

If your feelings towards dogs are neutral, then you shouldn't just answer "No", because as I said, in classic conversation, it is perceived as a dislike. Alone, it's a bluntly negative statement.

A truly neutral answer could have been, for instance:

"Not especially", "fairly", "moderatly", and so on...

"I dont like" / answering "no" is a bluntly neutral statement.

The question involves simply asking if I like. If, taking into consideration the meaning of the verb "like," I simply respond to whether my feelings for dogs fit the definition for the verb "to like", the answer is no.

Maybe this will help:

From dictionary.com (first one that came up on google)

like: Audio Help /laɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[lahyk] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, liked, lik·ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1. to take pleasure in; find agreeable or congenial: We all liked the concert.
2. to regard with favor; have a kindly or friendly feeling for (a person, group, etc.); find attractive: His parents like me and I like them.
3. to wish or prefer: You can do exactly as you like while you are a guest here.

and

dis·like Audio Help /dɪsˈlaɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dis-lahyk] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -liked, -lik·ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1. to regard with displeasure, antipathy, or aversion: I dislike working. I dislike oysters.
–noun
2. a feeling of aversion; antipathy: a strong dislike for Bach.

If we go with just the definitions of the words like and dislike, an absence of "like" for something does not equal dislike.

And, as far as lacking context, if you had read the entirety of my post you would know the context, a discussion of which animal one prefers , cats or dogs. In that context, on the subject of preference, to state that "I do not like dogs" speaks to the context. The topic of conversation is preference, I stated that I don't like dogs, which in this context means I don't prefer them.

Combine the cold, hard meanings of the words like and dislike with the context of the conversation on preference and you should get my meaning.

And by the way, people misuse words/definitions in classic conversation frequently, doesn't mean their right to do so. A fundamental misunderstanding for the meanings contained in words does not mean that the majority of people/classic conversation is correct.
 
Last edited:

Blackmail!

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Today's rants on INTPs:

-Lack of verbal nuances, especially when they involve a social context
-Tendency to blame others for their own mistakes
-So concerned about their own self, they could forget to see the obvious
 

GreyDeath

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Today's rants on INTPs:

-Lack of verbal nuances, especially when they involve a social context
-Tendency to blame others for their own mistakes
-So concerned about their own self, they could forget to see the obvious

Ah passive aggression. Nice. A much better direction to go than actual discussion.

Since you wont directly respond to my last post (well you did, passively), Ill address "todays rants" in relation to it.

Verbal nuances don't apply, this is text, in a forum, not verbal (unless you mean verbal as involving verbs), you can not hear the vocal subtleties of a passionate "no" versus a unemotional "no"; nor can you see the expression on my face when I make a statement. Either way, in what specific way am I "demonstrating a lack of verbal nuances in a social context?" How is it that I am and my friend is not "demonstrating a lack of verbal nuances in a social context" when he didn't understand the nuances or the meaning?

What mistakes am I blaming others for? You claimed I lacked context, I gave you the context.

How am I concerned with myself, this is about the meaning of a word, not about me. Whats so obvious that I'm not seeing?
 

Tallulah

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Ah passive aggression. Nice. A much better direction to go than actual discussion.

Since you wont directly respond to my last post (well you did, passively), Ill address "todays rants" in relation to it.

Verbal nuances don't apply, this is text, in a forum, not verbal (unless you mean verbal as involving verbs), you can not hear the vocal subtleties of a passionate "no" versus a unemotional "no"; nor can you see the expression on my face when I make a statement. Either way, in what specific way am I "demonstrating a lack of verbal nuances in a social context?" How is it that I am and my friend is not "demonstrating a lack of verbal nuances in a social context" when he didn't understand the nuances or the meaning?

What mistakes am I blaming others for? You claimed I lacked context, I gave you the context.

How am I concerned with myself, this is about the meaning of a word, not about me. Whats so obvious that I'm not seeing?

Dude just likes to get INTPs in a tizzy, from what I can tell. INTPs are definitely able to demonstrate and interpret nuance. Sometimes to the point of frustration to others.

I agree with your original assessment--in the context of the discussion, the person should have pressed further if he thought you seriously hated dogs. I can certainly tell the difference between dislike and outright hate. If you didn't say "hate," he shouldn't have represented your viewpoint as such.
 

GreyDeath

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Thank you, Tallulah, I'm glad to see that someone sees my point. I amazes me how we seldom misconstrue "like" to mean "love" but how easy it is to misconstrue an absence of like for dislike.

I think I finally figured out that he likes to get INTPs worked up on the last post with the smiley with the fingers in its ears.
 

suzyk

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Apr 7, 2008
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1. Very, very fickle.
2. Are stubborn when it comes to decisions/beliefs they don't want to part with (I do that a lot)
3. So open-minded that they can't take the overload of ideas
3. LAZY (Me)
4. Thoughts are so abstract and internal that they find some to be hard to verbalize (me again)
5. Find the negative easier than the positive
6. Negative and cynical (me)

I observed myself today.
 

Tallulah

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I definitely find the negative easier than the positive. Even though it really is irrational, it FEELS more rational to think negatively, b/c you fool yourself into thinking you're planning for every eventuality. It makes me act less, though, b/c I feel like I've already thought things out and there's no point in trying.
 

skip

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It's not irrational. One of our strongest skills is critical analysis which includes finding flaws. That will become all you see if that's all you choose to focus on, however.
 

Blackmail!

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I think I finally figured out that he likes to get INTPs worked up on the last post with the smiley with the fingers in its ears.

You got is all wrong, as usual.

I was just suggesting you to calm down, to go easy. Passive-aggressive tactics don't require laughters, I guessed you would figure it out.
The moment after you were criticized, you used your fiercest Ego defence mechanisms. And so did Tallulah.

"We INTPs are the best.... blah blah blah... the best... blah blah blah... our nuances are so great no one is able to understand them... blah blah blah... the best... blah blah blah... we are so intelligent... blah blah blah...."

How old are you?

It's amazing how you INTPs can sometimes be so stubborn and arrogant. It's perplexing, frankly. Indeed, you lacked social nuance, context, and I'm sure 90% of mankind will agree with me, but you don't mind. You have such a high idea of your own ego you don't want to realize how flawed you are.

I wanted to help you, you know. There was something rather obvious I tried to show you. I gained nothing in the process, it was pure benevolence.
But you took it as a personal offense!!! :shock:

Amazing!
Next time, I'll let you ramble on your own delirium.
If you can't accept foreign ideas, what others try to tell you, how can you improve?
Is it logical to force the world to embrace your own system, rather than trying to adapt to how the world really is? :huh:
 

Tallulah

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"We INTPs are the best.... blah blah blah... the best... blah blah blah... our nuances are so great no one is able to understand them... blah blah blah... the best... blah blah blah... we are so intelligent... blah blah blah...."

There's something VERY ironic about this coming from you, Blackmail.


I wanted to help you, you know. There was something rather obvious I tried to show you. I gained nothing in the process, it was pure benevolence.
But you took it as a personal offense!!! :shock:

Trying to remember when anyone asked for this "help." Hmmm. Nope, nothing.

Next time, I'll let you ramble on your own delirium.

Promises, promises.
 

Blackmail!

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There's something VERY ironic about this coming from you, Blackmail.

I never pretended my inner nuances were superior to anybody's.
The fact is, I never pretended to be superior to anybody, in any context.

But you interpreted it that way... soooo predictable.
Your scale is not my scale, you know!

Don't make projection. :cheers:

Laughter is the secret to every fears!
Lalalalaaaa Lalalalaaaa Lalalalaaaa Aaaah!
 

Rhu

Morlock
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Apr 23, 2007
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Pfft
I never pretended my inner nuances were superior to anybody's.
->
I wanted to help you, you know. There was something rather obvious I tried to show you. I gained nothing in the process, it was pure benevolence.
But you took it as a personal offense!!! :shock:

...

The fact is, I never pretended to be superior to anybody, in any context.
->
Next time, I'll let you ramble on your own delirium.


:hug:
 
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