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[INTJ] INTJs and sufferance

entropie

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I just read a quote by Emily Bronte from her book Withering Heigths and that has left me with an idea. I can be totally wrong but I nevertheless wanted to ask. The quote was:

"Terror made me cruel..."
 

INTJ123

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Sorry never heard of it, but what was the question again?
 

Kalach

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Terror made me cruel? INXJs respond to psychological threat by aggressive, unfeeling action?

I have been wondering recently about the inferior function. It's what gets used when the person is psychologically threatened. Inferior Se presumably tends one to think one should seek, see and use dangerous physical opportunities to escape immediate distress.

Thus, cruel?

Or is it just that INTJs will shut down empathy, what little there was, when threatened?

Or that INFJs will shut down pleasant, harmony seeking Fe and replace it with punishment?


Or is there an INTJ terrorist in Wuthering Heights? There should be, the stupid crap people do to each other in that story, they need someone to whip them into shape.


Rosetta Stone, save me, I'm talking about Fe again!


(Ooo, that's a good name for an INTJ terrorist, Rosetta Stone: Heathcliff, Whatshername and their jailor, Rosetta Stone, meet on the heath. Heathcliff carries a ship's canon, Whatsername is armed with glacial glances and the threat of disembodied haunting, while Wily Rose Stone carries only a laptop, masking tape and eight toothpicks...)
 

Blank

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I thought INTJ's already had the right to vote. :huh:
 

Valuable_Money

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BAH! I was fine with it when we let them INTJs outa the fields, after all a man has the right raise his family on his own land, but now they want to vote! WHATS NEXT! An INTJ president!
 

thisGuy

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i wouldnt totally discount the idea.

in fact, the 'terrors' tend to become INTJs soft soft spots that they NEVER talk about with anyone. any mention of the terrors causes them to clam up like they had a bomb in their mouth that would be triggered by their mouth opening.

if you even touch these terrors, you will experience the INTJ coldness + some INTJ ice
 

INTJ123

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i wouldnt totally discount the idea.

in fact, the 'terrors' tend to become INTJs soft soft spots that they NEVER talk about with anyone. any mention of the terrors causes them to clam up like they had a bomb in their mouth that would be triggered by their mouth opening.

if you even touch these terrors, you will experience the INTJ coldness + some INTJ ice

:shock: I'm not quite sure if I have one of those terrors(seriously), can you give me an example?
 

colourscientist

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the same old misunderstanding between anomalies and their environments: not-so-mature feelers and sensors think there's something wrong with the INTJ so they begin to investigate "what happened to them" that would explain this deviation from the normal.
 

entropie

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Actually I didnt think that there is something wrong with the INTJ. But I think I didnt explain myself enough about what I mean or the translation was off.

What I wanted to talk about is to accept the things that you could change. Meaning to see flaws in for example a bureaucratic process, but nobody really is intrested in your PoV. Or to understand from experience or from connecting the dots, where some persons behaviour will lead them but you cant change it either, cause they are not accepting / not open for your PoV.

That is probably a thing that is more accountable for young people in general, cause if you grow older you have more elbowroom to get your insight on the way. But...

I dont know, I am having troubles to describe this phaenomena and I think the quote in the OP didnt really fit it. I dont want to come off as thinking off my self to be that wise enough to tell people what to do is right. And with age now I have come to the point in which I understand that I am part of my society and if I dont bring my ideas on the way but keep them for myself for like forever, nothing really gonna will change in areas I think change is in order. Therefore this problem isnt a real issue to me nowadays.

But back then, when I was younger, I even blocked out that much my opinion as a result that I hadnt any real opinion no more to present for example in school, when asked for it.

Dont know if you understand and I dont expect it, prolly more something of a personal nature. But when I was young and never really was able to vent those things that bugged me or actively tried to engage in society to change things, Terror made me cruel. Or better: sufferance made me cruel.
 

colourscientist

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i know an ENTP who often finds himself in debates because he's frustrated by the traditions. there was one about whether certain books should be obligatory for students to read. he was on con side and said he never understood the reason but he couldn't really make his point because there were a lot of pro arguments from the others, mostly usual beliefs, like some things are basic knowledge and so.
i'm wondering if this is similar to the situations you experienced.
 

entropie

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No not really. To get used to traditions is a thing I havent managed until today :).

What I was talking about aims mostly into the department of personal development and people. When I for example see a friend doing things that will lead her to be unhappy in the end and I tell her from the start where she is heading and she does it nevertheless, resulting in the predicted outcome. That basically goes into the direction.

Of course everyone needs to do mistakes himself and I am not the all-knowing guru to put myself into the position to know it all.

But to constantly see some things that could lead someone to frustration and then to be right about it in the end, it's like a television constantly broadcasting in your head and you dont know how to turn it off.

This all sounds pretty arrogant and with me prolly results from me seeing myself in a higher psychological position with most people. I have come to look at it that I am a small fart aswell and I can learn alot from people aswell; recently I have found the right person to go through with it.

But her Ni-Fe combination isnt really helping to supress my curse to see things in people that are not really there and aint either good nor bad.

I have witnessed mind-blowing moments with INTJs in which they gave a wisdom about life that was yea mind-blowing. And they all seemed to have the same problem aswell. Meaning to see possibilities / dangers in things or people that aint really there. And because of the INTJ being introverted, I was just wondering, how they deal with it.

But I prolly called the wrong number, maybe its a thing I firstly have to come clear about on my own, so that I can describe it and can talk about it at all for a start.
 

thisGuy

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:shock: I'm not quite sure if I have one of those terrors(seriously), can you give me an example?

growing up, everyone faces problems (life problems like growing up with no money or being bullied throughout your student life).
people deal with adversity differently. some learn to take it and suffer through it. some overcome it. some run away from it

for the INTJ, i think, some problems tend to to be so frustrating/overpowering that they just learn to live with it and come to terms with it in a way that is somewhat unhealthy to their emotional well being. since they are already wired to not put on a whole display of feeling, the result of these situations ends up creating a psychological spot that needs to be handled like an infant. a spot that is turns into an insecurity. then this insecurity is never really overcome, it is treated with apathy but is closely gaurded...

that does make any sense at all...it is from looking at two 20 yr old INTJs i know, though it might just be them then
 

sculpting

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brother of enthalpy I think I see what you are saying.

You see a problem-identify the solution but nobody listens and then you watch the problem implode on itself. If they had listened to you this would not have happened.

You pop up with a NeTi contribution, it gets dismissed, even though you were correct. After awhile this could fuck with the brain of an entp I would guess. It's kind of pucnhing you were it hurts.

So you want to know how the INTJ who faces the same problem deals with this constant dismissal. Does it make them cruel and bitter like it might do to an entp?

Entps seem to identify the solution with thier ego a bit more than INTJs. The solution is a peice of them-an offerring, where the intj sits outside of the solution. So it isn't as insulting to an intj when the idea is dismissed, the intj just seems to assume the person is stupid and forge ahead in spite of them. The entp got thier ego poked a bit-thus built a bit of a shell-thus bacame a bit more cold. The intj may roll thier eyes but keeps on going.

Although this could all be utter total complete bullshit. (And K i dont think i can change my name to rosetta as likely you can only change your name so many times a year before you get stuck in the graveyard.)
 

Kalach

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Well, if the terrors are true, then

(a) this thread will have a lot of reading INTJs yelling teary-eyed "Whut? No, that ain't me, nope, no, it isn't!" at their monitors. (Y'know, in a imaginary universe where they're expressive.)

and

(b) they--we--probably don't know what you're talking about because distressed, *immature* introverted feeling tends to reactively leave behind the things that cause the distress.

But distress can be dwelt upon. And it grows and grows inside Ni, assuming bigger and more horrible forms.

At which point, if we're lucky, we say, okay, what do I know right now, and from that, what am I going to choose to *do*!

And as one ages one gets better at making appropriate decisions about constructive action.

The relative cruelty of one's chosen actions... dunno, as an introvert it's pretty hard to find people to be cruel to. Then I suppose quality over quantity applies.


But anyway, what the hell are you guys talking about?! (He asks, paranoid that there's some irony here.)
 

sculpting

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Kalach that's very insightful and even inspiring...

Does Ni really amplify things? How so as Ne would amplify I'd guess by finding all possibilities and then freaking out about the worst ones.
 

INTJ123

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Well, if the terrors are true, then

(a) this thread will have a lot of reading INTJs yelling teary-eyed "Whut? No, that ain't me, nope, no, it isn't!" at their monitors. (Y'know, in a imaginary universe where they're expressive.)

and

(b) they--we--probably don't know what you're talking about because distressed, *immature* introverted feeling tends to reactively leave behind the things that cause the distress.

But distress can be dwelt upon. And it grows and grows inside Ni, assuming bigger and more horrible forms.

At which point, if we're lucky, we say, okay, what do I know right now, and from that, what am I going to choose to *do*!

And as one ages one gets better at making appropriate decisions about constructive action.

The relative cruelty of one's chosen actions... dunno, as an introvert it's pretty hard to find people to be cruel to. Then I suppose quality over quantity applies.


But anyway, what the hell are you guys talking about?! (He asks, paranoid that there's some irony here.)

I think I get what the OP meant now, and no offence but I think you are wrong. "Terror made me Cruel" could also be said as "Cruelty from others has made me cruel"
The INTJ often finds himself misunderstood, being the rarity that he is, and that eventually the INTJ will become cynical, sarcastic, and generally pessimistic towards people and relationships, but we didn't want it that way, it seems to be an overwhelming force from the pressures of the outside world.
 
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