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[ENTP] Rant on ENTPs

MacGuffin

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The one thing I have yet to see in myself or other ENTPs (that I've met in real life) is the social machiavellinism. I've heard that in other places and I know you're not saying all ENTPs etc, but that one always baffled me. I just don't see it as typical if at all.

I haven't seen it either.
 

ygolo

My termites win
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The one thing I have yet to see in myself or other ENTPs (that I've met in real life) is the social machiavellinism. I've heard that in other places and I know you're not saying all ENTPs etc, but that one always baffled me. I just don't see it as typical if at all.

Can you give me some examples you've seen in yourself or others?

What's the difference between Social Machiavellinism and Machiavellinism?

If it means dismantling the "old guard" in order to establish the new, I can see that.


My own rant:
I don't think they do it on purpose. But, like the Music Man, they really believe in the projects they con people into. :yes: I suppose it is better than intentionally conning people.

EDIT: in the interest of improvement, a little contingency planning can turn a "con" into a true venture.
 
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Usehername

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I've seen it in the unhealthy ENTP i mentioned earlier. He was King of that.
 

Helfeather

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I love dropping 'hints' when talking to ENTP just so I can watch them go on a tangent xD

I love them, they really entertain me w/ their crazy ideas.
 

Mycroft

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Faults of one particularly irksome ENTP I've known:

1.) He read fairly widely, which I can respect, but didn't seem to have any interest in knowledge for reasons outside of showing it off in conversation and otherwise using it for blab-fodder.
2.) For all of his talk of mind-expansion, blah blah blah (He was quite the Leary and Wilson fan), he seemed to think everyone in the world fell into two categories: Ne-dominant and broken Ne-dominant.
3.) I know I'm not covering new ground here, but he was hands down the biggest slob I've ever met. I am not being hyperbolic when I say that I would have rather gone to the bathroom at an interstate truck stop than in his john.
 

Blackwater

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well i wouln't say that I suffer from machiavellianism myself. i am somewhat image concious etc. but i can tell you far worse horror storries of xNTJs trying to remote-control people. funny thing here is, it almost always fails. even if it looks good for 2-3-4 years there ultimately some destructive element to it :/

Actually I'll do a real rant- ENTP's can make you feel like you're the only person in the world and then they'll have nothing to do with you for a while and then you'll be their whole world again. One may feel like they are going back and forth between a relational dessert and then a relational lush tropical jungle. You have to be able to be an emotionally equipped camel in relationships with them.

people with a coke habit to this too
 

Maverick

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And remember: Just because a type has a potential problem area, it doesn't mean that you, the actual person necessarily suffers from this problem, even if you are that type.

Good point.

- Unrealistic ideas that are given at an inappropriate time
- Tendency to not follow on through projects
- Tendency to get quickly bored
- Big risk taker
- Manipulative in social relationships for personal gain
- Big spender
- Unfocused and tendency to have difficulty to concentrate on one thing at a time
- Plays devil's advocate and argumentative for the sake of being so
- Does not respect existing lines of command to implement own ideas and bypasses social aspects, disregarding negative consequences from those in power
- Gets bored quickly with romantic partner
- Narcissistic. Sees the world as an audience
- One ups people and competitive on task and relational level
- Obnoxious and rude
- Ignores social conventions for attention
- Act in eccentric ways to differentiate themselves from others
- Goes through long "high" and "low" mood phases
- Jack of all trades, master of none
 

Recluse

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One may feel like they are going back and forth between a relational dessert and then a relational lush tropical jungle. You have to be able to be an emotionally equipped camel in relationships with them.

It also helps if you like sex.

Now whenever I encounter an ENTP, I'll envision them attempting to having sex while eating dessert astride a camel--in a tropical jungle, no less. Thanks, guys!

Note:
Having run out of emoticons of tropical dessert fruit astride camels, I've had to substitute the following: :bananallama:
 
O

Oberon

Guest
Now whenever I encounter an ENTP, I'll envision them attempting to having sex while eating dessert astride a camel--in a tropical jungle, no less. Thanks, guys!

Eh. The dessert and sex go together fine; just leave the camel out of it.
 

meanlittlechimp

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Actually I'll do a real rant- ENTP's can make you feel like you're the only person in the world and then they'll have nothing to do with you for a while and then you'll be their whole world again. One may feel like they are going back and forth between a relational dessert and then a relational lush tropical jungle. You have to be able to be an emotionally equipped camel in relationships with them.

It's usually just because we got distracted by something else, not because our feelings for you as a friend or whatever were not genuine. We usually don't spend time with anyone merely for social obligations, unless we actually enjoy their company. The fact they keep coming back, even if it's occasionally, is because they value you in some way.

As an INFJ, you sense this, which is probably why you don't hold it against us maybe? I've hurt some feelings in the past for being "unavailable" but when I see them again (in my mind, no time has passed). It's like the interesting conversation with that person was just paused for a while (even if it's years); I'm always baffled when occasionally, someone needs to re-acquaint themselves with me again - as if I might have changed in my time away. But I can see how my behavior might seem cold or flighty.
 

substitute

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Actually I'll do a real rant- ENTP's can make you feel like you're the only person in the world and then they'll have nothing to do with you for a while and then you'll be their whole world again. One may feel like they are going back and forth between a relational dessert and then a relational lush tropical jungle. You have to be able to be an emotionally equipped camel in relationships with them.

You call that a rant? Haha... no...

Flaw #34654a: Don't hold back or pull any punches when ranting.
Flaw #34654b: Don't take other people's rants seriously because they seem lame in comparison to the ones we just casually throw out whilst stirring our coffee. Laugh at people when they're angry.
Flaw #34654c: Provoke other people to rant just so we can see if they have any real power or passion in them.

Then there's also the old faithful: Talk too much or not at all, which follows on from the general "all or nothing" approach to everything in life bewailed by Our Lady of Pinkington.

And probably the worst part about being ENTP from all points of view is that really, you can list our flaws all day and we'll help you, enjoying it, and not feeling really the slightest tinge of guilt for any of them. Not really - we pretend we do sometimes because it's the done thing, but we often don't really understand why we're supposed to feel bad, and are more likely to feel bad about not feeling bad, than about the thing we're supposed to feel bad about... :shock:

It's like the interesting conversation with that person was just paused for a while (even if it's years); I'm always baffled when occasionally, someone needs to re-acquaint themselves with me again - as if I might have changed in my time away. But I can see how my behavior might seem cold or flighty.

I relate to this.
 

"?"

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This is a snipet from the Visionary description at personalitypage.com:
The problems ENTPs might have fitting into the world are not usually directly related to friends or relationships. Rather, the ENTP has trouble maintaining a stable and consistent lifestyle. While this can affect love relationships, the ENTP usually has such an endearing and capable “way” about them that others tend to follow their lead, even in the most trying of situations. The problems the ENTP generates in life are those associated with their constant need for individuality, excellence and new experiences which test their talents. While this can place great demand upon relationships, tensions are usually only apparent where the ENTP has made a love match with a person whose security needs are greater than their ability to allow their ENTP partner the freedom they need. The self aware ENTP must therefore not only be careful in considering their career choices, but also in choosing a life situation with a partner. Of all the types, the ENTP is most uncomfortable with compromise and ought not to place themselves in situations which demand it. Most importantly the ENTP must become aware, through careful analysis of experience, just what kind of changes for the good or bad have been the direct result of their need for constant refreshment of life. Only through this awareness will the ENTP be able to focus on those perceptions which promise a better and more fruitful life.

Most ENTPs will experience career/life frustration and some relationship difficulties through their lives. The ENTP with well-developed Introverted Thinking will find these times easier to deal with. Accordingly, we offer some general suggestions for dealing with these difficulties, as well as some advice that will help the ENTP develop their Introverted Thinking.
 

lastrailway

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After some recent things that have happened and some conversation with a girl from my work, I finally decided that my boss is most probably an ENTP and the girl who works with him -who I was mistyping her for an EN?P- is an ENTJ.
I still not have any rants, though, I get along pretty good with both
 

substitute

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Of all the types, the ENTP is most uncomfortable with compromise and ought not to place themselves in situations which demand it.

This is true. I'm really bad at compromise. I always get my way, always have. To not do so would be unthinkable. I mean, even when I haven't been able to get my way (first draft), I've managed to redraft 'my way' sometimes beyond recognition so that what I want to happen always happens, even if sometimes it's more like what happens is always what I want; I want whatever happens. Hm. Rephrase: I can usually find a way to want whatever I know is going to happen, and also to strongly influence what is going to happen.
 
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substitute

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Good point.

- Unrealistic ideas that are given at an inappropriate time
- Tendency to not follow on through projects
- Tendency to get quickly bored
- Big risk taker
- Manipulative in social relationships for personal gain
- Big spender
- Unfocused and tendency to have difficulty to concentrate on one thing at a time
- Plays devil's advocate and argumentative for the sake of being so
- Does not respect existing lines of command to implement own ideas and bypasses social aspects, disregarding negative consequences from those in power
- Gets bored quickly with romantic partner
- Narcissistic. Sees the world as an audience
- One ups people and competitive on task and relational level
- Obnoxious and rude
- Ignores social conventions for attention
- Act in eccentric ways to differentiate themselves from others
- Goes through long "high" and "low" mood phases
- Jack of all trades, master of none

This list is good, except that you've indulged in a little speculation and judgement as to the ENTP's motives for what s/he does, rather than just give the list of symptoms, so to speak.

For example, I agree that I act in eccentric ways, but I will deny to the death that I do it for attention - most of the time I'm not even aware that I am doing it, and it's just what comes naturally to me, I'm just being myself, which will obviously look eccentric since 'myself' is a pretty odd person.

Similarly, I admit that I ignore social conventions but I also deny that this is for attention - it's either because I'm oblivious to them and don't actually notice, or because I sincerely believe observing them is pointless and unconstructive for the situation at hand.

I also don't "disregard negative consequences from those in power" - I'm often quite aware of them. I'm just confident that I can handle them - and I always do, making the people who moaned fretfully and wouldn't trust me look a bit foolish, for which they hate/blame me.

It can be quite hurtful sometimes when my natural enthusiasm is labelled as arrogance and attention whoring.

So maybe I'd put it in a list of non-ENTP people's flaws:

- Always assume that anyone who's passionate and enthusiastic is arrogant and egotistical.
- Always assume that anyone who gets attention wants it, loves it and did something on purpose to get it, rather than consider the possibility that they might've just merited it.
 

proteanmix

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So maybe I'd put it in a list of non-ENTP people's flaws:

- Always assume that anyone who's passionate and enthusiastic is arrogant and egotistical.
- Always assume that anyone who gets attention wants it, loves it and did something on purpose to get it, rather than consider the possibility that they might've just merited it.

:harhar: "Don't hate me because I'm beautiful."
 

FDG

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My ENTP friend lacks some follow through, and he also has a bad outlook on intimate relationships (basically he sees them as only a means to personal gain); other than that, he's good.

Maverick, what's the problem with this:

Does not respect existing lines of command to implement own ideas and bypasses social aspects, disregarding negative consequences from those in power

?

As long as ideas are better, they'll sustain themselves no matter what stupid "lines of power" say.
 
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