[ENTP] ENTP Men vs. ENTP Women

[Nocapszy]

if they are consistently different, one of them isn't an ENTP.

here's the trick -- typology is 100% irrespective of gender. these preferences mean the same things for anyone.

 

[entropie]

Hmmm, but you can be a little preachy in your posts, dontcha think? You've reprimanded me a few times for stereotyping, when to me it seems obvious that "not all Xs behave like Y" - I don't need to always clarify, it's just obvious. It may not be actual religion or spirituality, but it's the dogma.

Well ok fair enough. As I said, I have troubles understanding myself and I dont think thats ever gonna change.

 

[jenocyde]

You know it was a compliment.

Of course I know! Everything is a compliment! hahaha...

if they are consistently different, one of them isn't an ENTP.

here's the trick -- typology is 100% irrespective of gender. these preferences mean the same things for anyone.

Well, how do you explain "unhealthy" people, then? Don't you believe in nature vs nurture? The preferences may be the same but the coping mechanisms are surely different, so behaviors are manifested differently.

Well ok fair enough. As I said, I have troubles understanding myself and I dont think thats ever gonna change.

 

[Moiety]

I think ENTP women are slightly meaner than the guys, and this I think comes from their lower eligibility for being punched in the face or demonized. They can say stuff and get away with it which, if a guy said it, he'd either be smacked, or gain the reputation for being an asshole, and nobody would like him. The woman might be seen as a bitch, but at least 50% of people would respect that and see it as strength, a strong woman, etc, whilst in men, it'd just 90% of people seeing you as a jerk.

lol, this is kinda the impression I get too, based on what I see on this forum.

 

[jenocyde]

lol, this is kinda the impression I get too, based on what I see on this forum.

Puhleeez. I've been in many many scrappy fights. And looking at the way people talked about Juggernaut, I would say that women are not exactly prized for having a strong opinion.

Men may be assholes, but women are bitches - not revered.

 

[Moiety]

Puhleeez. I've been in many many scrappy fights. And looking at the way people talked about Juggernaut, I would say that women are not exactly prized for having a strong opinion.

Men may be assholes, but women are bitches - not revered.

Well the words have to have SOME merit, of course

I meant strictly on this forum. Male posters seem slightly less prone to jump at assertive women's throats than female posters are to jumping at assertive men's throats. But I'm mainly just trying to pick up fights here

 

[phoenity]

Eh? Define "older"? I mean I'm older in the scheme of average ages on this forum, but I'm certainly not even middle aged yet... I find as I get older I get mellower and gentler, and the dogmatic and sorta black/white attitude is something I associate with my teens, something I grew out of and can't imagine going back into.

My ENTP friend of 8 years now has certainly mellowed out since I first met him. Back in high school he used to have a lot of "enemies" and seemed to enjoy making them. He's still an ice cold bastard sometimes, but not nearly as much as he used to be and it's not so much in-your-face anymore.

He's always coming up with "inventions" that he likes to bounce off me. He's good at thinking up big picture ideas but doesn't seem to be very good at actually doing them, or figuring out a practical point to start.

We seem to be a good match for friends because he needs a lot of attention and I don't require any. He likes to talk about all kinds of shit, I don't know where he comes up with all of it. If he wants to talk I just entertain by listening, asking questions or making comments here and there to fuel the talking.


I don't think I know any ENTP females but I'm sure I'd like them, probably more than my guy friend

 

[jenocyde]

Well the words have to have SOME merit, of course

I meant strictly on this forum. Male posters seem slightly less prone to jump at assertive women's throats than female posters are to jumping at assertive men's throats. But I'm mainly just trying to pick up fights here

Hmmm, all things being equal, maybe. But like I said, the younger males of our breed annoy even me, so maybe they are just saying rude things and looking for fights. While us women, and the older men, may be abrasive but there are at least some nuggets of insight wrapped up in there, which gives us a pass? I don't know. And it doesn't really matter. I think I get what you're saying...

 

[entropie]

I just thought on the way driving home: Assuming that entp men are brought up with less regards to their emotional development, which would be true in my case and then they are more prone to develop dogmatic views, when being young, patronizing others in the worst case. This becomes a vicious circle.

If you want to learn about your own and others emotions or feelings, you really need to listen and to reflect. But if you already were raised dogmatic, you tend to put the end-of-record to discussions and therefore have a hard time to open up, to loosen yourself and learn something about Fe.

Thats a good idea ! I always tell my NF that I got 3 emotions: hate, anger and love and she then replies "ouh it are a fair amount more" .

Due to the fact that I was brought up in a very male environment, I am really a lot out of touch with the fact to understand any of my feelings. And discussions about that need a special type of woman, cause otherwise I feel outsmarted, cause I want to be respected for the things I can do and not be converted into a woman.

But I have learnt a lot from my NF the last 3 years and I am pretty sure I need to learn a great deal more. I am tho still lacking to understand whats my strength in the whole thing, if I am nothing more than an emotionenless bastard.. Never really understood how a thing like that can appeal sexy to a woman.

 

[jenocyde]

I just thought on the way driving home: Assuming that entp men are brought up with less regards to their emotional development, which would be true in my case and then they are more prone to develop dogmatic views, when being young, patronizing others in the worst case. This becomes a vicious circle.

If you want to learn about your own and others emotions or feelings, you really need to listen and to reflect. But if you already were raised dogmatic, you tend to put the end-of-record to discussions and therefore have a hard time to open up, to loosen yourself and learn something about Fe.

Thats a good idea ! I always tell my NF that I got 3 emotions: hate, anger and love and she then replies "ouh it are a fair amount more" .

Due to the fact that I was brought up in a very male environment, I am really a lot out of touch with the fact to understand any of my feelings. And discussions about that need a special type of woman, cause otherwise I feel outsmarted, cause I want to be respected for the things I can do and not be converted into a woman.

But I have learnt a lot from my NF the last 3 years and I am pretty sure I need to learn a great deal more. I am tho still lacking whats my strength in the whole thing, if I am nothing more than an emotionenless bastard.. Never really understood how a thing like that can appeal sexy to a woman.

I think this is true. And I think I can definitely benefit from getting in touch with feelings. Or better yet, allowing myself to be controlled or washed over by them every once in a while.

But it's not exactly what I was getting at. I wasn't talking about Fe in terms of getting in touch with emotions, but more like knowing what's best for society. Knowing protocol and the "right" way to be. ENTP women here are forced to be aware of all of these things and despise the "rules" quietly. ENTP men, it seems, aren't even aware of the social rules to a degree. When they reach a level where they start to pay attention to the rules and to the feelings of others, they go crazy with it, becoming bossy and dogmatic. But this is a weak theory based on limited observation. I don't know. You can tell me when you reach 35.

 

[Fluffywolf]

I think this is true. And I think I can definitely benefit from getting in touch with feelings. Or better yet, allowing myself to be controlled or washed over by them every once in a while.

But it's not exactly what I was getting at. I wasn't talking about Fe in terms of getting in touch with emotions, but more like knowing what's best for society. Knowing protocol and the "right" way to be. ENTP women here are forced to be aware of all of these things and despise the "rules" quietly. ENTP men, it seems, aren't even aware of the social rules to a degree. When they reach a level where they start to pay attention to the rules and to the feelings of others, they go crazy with it, becoming bossy and dogmatic. But this is a weak theory based on limited observation. I don't know. You can tell me when you reach 35.

It's a scary subject though. What is really the "right" way?

I tend to test and analyse what a certain situation means, or may mean, to a certain person. And then adjust myself to that if I want to 'connect'.

I'm giving this much thought actually, because I'm not sure what is more important. Ti mimicking Fe in a controlled, responsible and mature fashion. Or letting loose Fe, which scares the crap out of me. I think if I give in to Fe in negative situations, people will get hurt. Although, it may be cute in positive situations. It would most likely still not have the desired outcome however.

I may be a bit of a control freak on this matter, but I'm extremely happy with that.

I think my view on the world fits your arguement of "Dogmatic" by the way.

 

[entropie]

I think this is true. And I think I can definitely benefit from getting in touch with feelings. Or better yet, allowing myself to be controlled or washed over by them every once in a while.

But it's not exactly what I was getting at. I wasn't talking about Fe in terms of getting in touch with emotions, but more like knowing what's best for society. Knowing protocol and the "right" way to be. ENTP women here are forced to be aware of all of these things and despise the "rules" quietly. ENTP men, it seems, aren't even aware of the social rules to a degree. When they reach a level where they start to pay attention to the rules and to the feelings of others, they go crazy with it, becoming bossy and dogmatic. But this is a weak theory based on limited observation. I don't know. You can tell me when you reach 35.

Ah ok I got you. That's intresting and I think I know what you mean. The first year I came to university I met a very nice guy, who I would type entp now and we had that special connection. We had the same humor and found equal things intresting. He though was the freak of the whole class and I was more like your atypical normal guy, who is polite and relieable. Other people told me they dont understand, why I hang out with that guy but I never really gave it a thought.

That's a thing that happened to me like all my life. If you think back to High School where there was a lot of groups forming, ranging from the sporty guys to the nerdy guys, I was like a jack-of-all-trades. I knew everywhere always some people. My NF sometimes thinks I am crazy, if we walk thro my hometown together and I greet like at least 15 people.

But and thats the intresting thing, I didnt wear a mask or adapted to the groups. The sporty arrogant guys for example were all asses. I never liked them, I only liked one guy and him I got to know singled-out from the others and without prejudice.

Its something like a natural charm, hell I even led a CounterStrike clan made out of 40 people and was called Clan Daddy.

And now comes the intresting part: there was one guy, an intp I think nowadays, who grew very close to me. This was my only real and close friendship I ever had in life. At some point tho around the age of 18, he constantly sought-after my advice on how to find a woman. And even if I myself hadnt had a clue how to do that, I became very bossy and dogmatic around him, what led to the point that I ruined our friendship. One day he left and never came back and I needed some years to understand that.

If I reflect on that now 7 years later, with the things you said above, it all starts to click for me, finally. I have to admit even 7 years later I cant say for sure, why he left me, but in face of the discussion going on here, I think I get it.

Since that day, I have changed. First I have lost my confidence and blocked people out of my lives, because I didnt want to hurt anyone again. Now I still block people out of my feeling realm but when I meet new people and they ask me a thing I dont know, I dont reply with something I made up in my mind to come off bossy, dogmatic or self-confident. I admit, if I dont know something and I was baffled, the first time I did that that the reception of people is even more nicer than if I make some answers up.

What I still tho do and I have to admit that, is when it comes down to me opening up and talking about my personal feelings out of the heart, I become bossy and dogmatic. Cause I can be very naive and be easily talked into something and therefore I really have to be that way to protect myself. Given the fact that I dont wear a mask in this forum, it can absolutely be true that I do come off bossy, preachy or dogmatic here from time to time.

 

[jenocyde]

It's a scary subject though. What is really the "right" way?

I tend to test and analyse what a certain situation means, or may mean, to a certain person. And then adjust myself to that if I want to 'connect'.

I'm giving this much thought actually, because I'm not sure what is more important. Ti mimicking Fe in a controlled, responsible and mature fashion. Or letting loose Fe, which scares the crap out of me. I think if I give in to Fe in negative situations, people will get hurt. Although, it may be cute in positive situations. It would most likely still not have the desired outcome however.

I may be a bit of a control freak on this matter, but I'm extremely happy with that.

I think my view on the world fits your arguement of "Dogmatic" by the way.

You sound like how I was. I mimicked Fe for the longest time. Observing, analyzing and then behaving in the way others would expect or appreciate. But I never felt it. I did it to gain leverage and acceptance, which is more manipulative than the actual Fe itself.

Now, I actually get it. Of course, the rules change with the society you are in, but I genuinely don't want to hurt someone's feelings or make them feel stupid or whatever. I always make it a point when learning a language, to also learn their value system (not just the "rules") because I want to understand what people hold dear. I sincerely don't want to offend people, it's not mimicking anymore. But of course, it's not the first thing that I think about and the truth is still more important than someone's feelings, but lately I do try to take feelings into consideration while being truthful.

 

[jenocyde]

Ah ok I got you. That's intresting and I think I know what you mean. The first year I came to university I met a very nice guy, who I would type entp now and we had that special connection. We had the same humor and found equal things intresting. He though was the freak of the whole class and I was more like your atypical normal guy, who is polite and relieable. Other people told me they dont understand, why I hang out with that guy but I never really gave it a thought.

Sorry, I have to laugh at "clan daddy". That is priceless!!!

Yes, and what you are describing is more what I am talking about. I'm sorry that you had to go through that with your friend though, in order to learn this lesson.

I find that the male ENTPs I encounter tend to tell me what is right and wrong way more than I feel comfortable with. Synarch and I are of such a similar minds that it scares me sometimes, but then he'll say something and *poof*... I can't even be in the conversation with him anymore. I literally am so shocked that I have to tell him I can no longer speak with him. Of course he makes fun of me and calls me dramatic, and we laugh and move on. But the fact is what it is. The dogma. The nonacceptance of different perspectives, feelings or viewpoints. And it always makes me wonder if he's trying to convince me, or to convince himself.

 

[Fluffywolf]

I think the main problem is that Fe and dominant Ti just doesn't work. They're complete opposites. If I let my Fe go, I'd be no different than someone with MPD. A completely different person.

I don't see a way to use Fe as to compliment my already existing self.

 

[Moiety]

If type theory is correct for children, and ENTPs and ENFPs stem from the same place, you'd think ENTPs would have an easier developing their (already present?) Fi, no? The number of NeXis (people with high Ne Fi and Ti) seems like no coincidence.

Not trying to make a point, just a random thought.

 

[entropie]

Sorry, I have to laugh at "clan daddy". That is priceless!!!

Yes, and what you are describing is more what I am talking about. I'm sorry that you had to go through that with your friend though, in order to learn this lesson.

I find that the male ENTPs I encounter tend to tell me what is right and wrong way more than I feel comfortable with. Synarch and I are of such a similar minds that it scares me sometimes, but then he'll say something and *poof*... I can't even be in the conversation with him anymore. I literally am so shocked that I have to tell him I can no longer speak with him. Of course he makes fun of me and calls me dramatic, and we laugh and move on. But the fact is what it is. The dogma. The nonacceptance of different perspectives, feelings or viewpoints. And it always makes me wonder if he's trying to convince me, or to convince himself.

Ok fair enough. I dont expect to believe me now, when I say I am feeling you. But it's exactly why I open up my ranting threads in this forum, out of an equal feeling.

I am gonna have a Scotch now, my head is aching. Who is with me ?

This one's for you jeno

Eine bedeutsame Fliege zog eine Runde über ihren nackten Körper und sah sie aus über tausend verschiedenen Sichtweisen, einer Gabe, die die Menschheit verrückt werden ließe. Langsam näherte sie sich summend ihrem Gesicht und setzte sich auf ihre leuchtenden blauen Augen, stieß ihren Rüssel in die Pupille und trank das eiweißhaltige Sekret. Sie nahm davon keine Notiz mehr.
entropie 2003

 

[jenocyde]

I think the main problem is that Fe and dominant Ti just doesn't work. They're complete opposites. If I let my Fe go, I'd be no different than someone with MPD. A completely different person.

I don't see a way to use Fe as to compliment my already existing self.

We are having this same discussion in an ENFJ thread right now. How Ti and Fe don't work hand in hand. I'm still thinking about this one. I'll get back to you when I make more sense of it.

If type theory is correct for children, and ENTPs and ENFPs stem from the same place, you'd think ENTPs would have an easier developing their (already present?) Fi, no? The number of NeXis (people with high Ne Fi and Ti) seems like no coincidence.

Not trying to make a point, just a random thought.

I hear what you are saying, but the point is that it's not easy, or they would have chosen Fi instead of Ti as a preference.

 

[jenocyde]

Ok fair enough. I dont expect to believe me now, when I say I am feeling you. But it's exactly why I open up my ranting threads in this forum, out of an equal feeling.

I am gonna have a Scotch now, my head is aching. Who is with me ?

I'm right there with ya buddy. Been drinking my Maccallen for about 11 hours now and will continue for the next 13. Prost!!!


EDIT: hahaha, meine Augen sind braun!

 

[Fluffywolf]

We are having this same discussion in an ENFJ thread right now. How Ti and Fe don't work hand in hand. I'm still thinking about this one. I'll get back to you when I make more sense of it.

I'm still mostly brain storming about this as well. Haven't reached a conclusion yet either.