• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[INTJ] INTJ Intimidation

Mendacity

New member
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
131
I only skimmed the earlier stuff; I'll point this out and ask me to read more if it's necessary (i should be studying, which is why i'm nto re-reading now, but i don't mind clarifying if necessary).

Economica's CC arguments are more self-deprecating than self-serving. She's identified it as a major turning point in her life when she discovered just how much of a stubborn ass she was at points with her CCness. She doesn't want to be a stubborn ass, and so she works hard at discovering the ins and outs to everything CC-related. She wants to better herself.
I read her post as self-deprecating. Which I thought was intuitive, since she was an INTJ saying this about INTJs. But I see how you could be (what I perceive as) mistaken re: her being holier-than-thou.

I don't know about the rest of it. I only skimmed it so far.

Ah, I see where we went wrong now. Maybe that's how she did mean it and why her second post on the matter was the way it was.
Further clarification wouldn't hurt, but it can certainly wait. Studying is more important than arguing semantics on the internet and speaking of which... I should be doing the same myself.
Thank you for your response.
 

Blackwater

New member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
454
MBTI Type
ERTP
a parallel example:

I say: "Americans are obese."

You happen to be an American, but you also happen to be in control of your weight. - Why should you feel insulted?

Of course, every American isn't obese. But compared to other nationalities Americans are obese.". Of course every INTJ isn't like robespierre. But compared to other types they probably are.

anyone? - some of you are reading type as if it constitutes your entire personality. come on - you know it doesn't!




oh yearh, and wolf is not an intj :sombrero:
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
anyone? - some of you are reading type as if it constitutes your entire personality. come on - you know it doesn't!

Since you brought it up again, as far as your obesity comment goes, if you did not frame the phrase "Americans are obese" within a particular context (so I could parse it as an intellectual statement rather than as a slur), I would actually have felt some annoyance. (And, to be honest with you, when I read it the first time, I DID feel annoyed. Because while technically it was true, it was a sloppy comment.)

Since I tend to intellectualize anyway, I would just looked for validation you didn't mean it as an insult, then moved on... but I know other people who would have taken the comment personally.

And I think it's just bad communication to not take into consideration how others might likely perceive your comments; the last thing you want to do is shoot yourself in the foot when trying to make a point. As someone else said (Mendacity?), it's not silly to buffer your comments with phrases that give people the cues they need to know whether your intentions are positive or negative towards them...
 

Blackwater

New member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
454
MBTI Type
ERTP
yes yes disclaimers always help

but people put themselves in this position because they equate actual personality with theoretical type. you cannot be every facet of your type.
 

Mendacity

New member
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
131
yes yes disclaimers always help

but people put themselves in this position because they equate actual personality with theoretical type. you cannot be every facet of your type.

It's not your job to "show us the way." If people take it that seriously then it's their problem, and while there's certainly nothing wrong with politely saying, "hey guys, you're not every facet of your type all the time," putting the same statement in context with what can very easily be perceived as an insult and then saying, "well it's your own fault!" (which seems to be what your "people put themselves in this position" comment is saying. Please correct me if I am mistaken on this point.) is just antagonistic. And being antagonistic is a great way to start a fight, but a really crappy way to get your point across to someone.
 

Blackwater

New member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
454
MBTI Type
ERTP
if you want context, read the first lines of the first post in this thread:

What is it about [INTJs] that causes people to think that we are stand-offish, aloof, intimidating, etc.?
 

Mendacity

New member
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
131
if you want context, read the first lines of the first post in this thread:

so... you're saying that INTJs are intimidating and aloof because most americans are fat? :huh:
That's a joke actually. But I still don't understand what you're trying to say if it isn't "Most INTJs are horrible people and most Americans are fat."

Is your point that nobody should be offended no matter how crass a statement you're making about an aspect of someone's personality because it may not be true of everyone? In many cases, what's offensive is the generalization itself. And whether something is a generalization or not, if you're going to criticize someone for aspects of their personality (as I stated before) you may wish to take some time to be as nice about it as possible. People are generally more sensitive about their personalities than their looks. Especially when faced with criticism from strangers... as illogical as that may be.
Not only will your criticism be received better, which I would assume to be the goal, but it will avoid a big ugly fight as well. Unless the big ugly fight is the goal.
 

MacGuffin

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
10,710
MBTI Type
xkcd
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
what sort of question is that? I'm referring to the person behind the posts

So you weren't referring to the histoical Maximilien Robespierre then.
 

MacGuffin

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
10,710
MBTI Type
xkcd
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
P.S. this thread is a textbook example of closed-minded certitude.
 

htb

New member
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
1,505
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
1w9
It started fairly enough, became strange, then vitriolic; now it's back to fairly strange enough.

In true, ESL-heckler style:

HA HA INTJS SO INTIMATNGI
THE AFRAID OF OWN SHADOW GO IN HOLE YOU GRONDHUGS HA
LINK
 

SWerewolf

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
1
MBTI Type
INTJ
My reply isn't exactly a comment on the most recent things, but that's because the moment I saw people taking offense I started skipping pages. I saw earlier on that people ended up putting a lot of words in ptgatsby's mouth, which ended up making a simple and true concept into a mess. It was directly on topic and I'm not even sure how anyone read into it as far as they did.

This is about intimidation. He plainly said the preconception directly resulted in the post conception. There was no place for anything in-between because the in-between had zero relevance. It was perfect cause and effect.

I won't speak for anyone but myself in relation to any of this. If it's different for other INTJ's, consider it the the fun factor of free will rather than a different type assignment.

When it comes to the example of "why do you believe what you believe" type questions... Yes, that will catch my attention and I may react in a less than nice way. However, it's not the question itself, really. I will catch it because I have a habit of doing the same to play with people I know fairly well. It's not the speaker's intention that will trigger it, it will be my own intentions when I have done it in the past that I see it as, for better or worse, and I'm sure that amounts to a personality flaw on my end. But, if it makes you feel any better I'll probably have a grin on my face when my back is turned.

Writing people off, for me, is not a form of death sentence. It's more like "I'll hit a wall if I keep in that direction, lets see what the other options are." As cold as it may seem, the priority is the priority, not the feelings of others. Admittedly, it's another personality flaw, but only in a professional environment. If my priority happens to be a significant other, that flaw has its moment to shine. So I can't justify getting rid of it completely.

If someone is "written off" it's quite easy to reverse it... Unless you flunked Special Ed. You just have to do or say something remotely intelligent. I'll admit to myself that maybe I reacted too quickly and underestimated you. If that happens, you're probably going to end up back to normal+1 in my head. Because I won't underestimate(translated to: a mistake) someone a second time when they have surprised me. But, at the same time if you're in that position and do something very stupid, I may take that thought back and it'll be quite a bit harder to change.

As for the "offensive" conversation, refer to me and I'll debate it if you want. I won't get offended. I honestly don't care if something harsh is said, I'd be a hypocrite and I'd never let myself live it down. I'm also quite aware of my flaws. If you're right, I'll say so. Just try to be clear when doing it. I can tell you right now it's not possible to generalize such things. All that will happen is I'll ask you to elaborate every single time, and that will end up being a pain for both of us.
 

Ivy

Strongly Ambivalent
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
23,989
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6
That was quite a first post!

Welcome SWerewolf!
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
I don't know about other INTJs but my daughter has this look sometimes . . .

I know I'm not in the idiot category because she will sometimes go out of her way to go places with me so it's just her and me and she will talk to me about the fan-fics she's reading enthusiastically and she doesn't have to do that and wouldn't if she couldn't stand me, but still the look makes you feel like an insect that really has no purpose in life other than to be annoying and if she could muster some feeling besides annoyed indifference, you would be swiftly dispatched.

My old college roomie was the same way. Both delightful people because they are solid, smart, and have that delicious sense of humor, but the look is still a little disconcerting and I know they both like me. I hate to think what it would be like if they didn't.
 

Mendacity

New member
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
131
My reply isn't exactly a comment on the most recent things, but that's because the moment I saw people taking offense I started skipping pages. I saw earlier on that people ended up putting a lot of words in ptgatsby's mouth, which ended up making a simple and true concept into a mess. It was directly on topic and I'm not even sure how anyone read into it as far as they did.

This is about intimidation. He plainly said the preconception directly resulted in the post conception. There was no place for anything in-between because the in-between had zero relevance. It was perfect cause and effect.

I won't speak for anyone but myself in relation to any of this. If it's different for other INTJ's, consider it the the fun factor of free will rather than a different type assignment.

When it comes to the example of "why do you believe what you believe" type questions... Yes, that will catch my attention and I may react in a less than nice way. However, it's not the question itself, really. I will catch it because I have a habit of doing the same to play with people I know fairly well. It's not the speaker's intention that will trigger it, it will be my own intentions when I have done it in the past that I see it as, for better or worse, and I'm sure that amounts to a personality flaw on my end. But, if it makes you feel any better I'll probably have a grin on my face when my back is turned.

Writing people off, for me, is not a form of death sentence. It's more like "I'll hit a wall if I keep in that direction, lets see what the other options are." As cold as it may seem, the priority is the priority, not the feelings of others. Admittedly, it's another personality flaw, but only in a professional environment. If my priority happens to be a significant other, that flaw has its moment to shine. So I can't justify getting rid of it completely.

If someone is "written off" it's quite easy to reverse it... Unless you flunked Special Ed. You just have to do or say something remotely intelligent. I'll admit to myself that maybe I reacted too quickly and underestimated you. If that happens, you're probably going to end up back to normal+1 in my head. Because I won't underestimate(translated to: a mistake) someone a second time when they have surprised me. But, at the same time if you're in that position and do something very stupid, I may take that thought back and it'll be quite a bit harder to change.

Was ptgatsby's point that INTJ intimidation a result of our reputation for writing people off? I was never actually clear on that.
If so I think it's a valid point if you're talking about people who know anything about MBTI and know that you're an INTJ... but in my experience most people have no idea what it is and wouldn't know an INTJ if they were bit by one (not that implausible ;) )
If that wasn't his point then I'm sorry for answering a point nobody was making. :blush:
 

The Ü™

Permabanned
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
11,910
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I think Economica's E-type is a 1, while a lot of other INTJs here are probably 5s, 6s or possibly 8s.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
Yes and I'm a 1 also, which is why I understand what she's trying to do. I go on my little crusades as well.
 
Top