[INTJ] INTJ Intimidation

[ptgatsby]

It doesn't need to be. Think of it this way: every shortsighted dismissal (and it is caprice, I don't agree with a scrap of what's been said) is a bridge or two burnt. One really can't get very far -- or at least very far in more than one direction.

The degree that it is done doesn't change the outside impression on the randomness of what decides the write off. Random and uncertainty are the main factors involved here, along with the lack of emotional connection. The willingness to do something combined with the uncertain triggers is what triggers the intimidation. If it was easy to predict and/or it was done universally, then people would write INTJs off, not the other way around.

And it doesn't always have to be long term - INTJs are plenty good at saying you are idiot directly or indirectly.

 

[htb]

Random and uncertainty are the main factors involved here, along with the lack of emotional connection.

That I understand. What I don't understand is, beyond the natural emotional pain from unjustified and/or unexpected rejection, how one can continue to value an individual exhibiting any number of avoidant disorders.

And it doesn't always have to be long term - INTJs are plenty good at saying you are an idiot directly or indirectly.

Yes, but what does it matter if it's not true? And what does the opinion of someone who can't tell what is from what isn't rate -- what should it rate? Answer: zero. Let them lock themselves out.

 

[ptgatsby]

That I understand. What I don't understand is, beyond the natural emotional pain from unjustified and/or unexpected rejection, how one can continue to value an individual exhibiting any number of avoidant disorders.

Are we talking about INTJs being avoidant? Cause that's the normal view on "writing off"/dismissive...?

Yes, but what does it matter if it's not true?

It does matter. INTJs don't think it does, but that's what makes this whole situation directed towards INTJs. This is the hard edge, the unsocial factor, the intimidation.

INTJs pretend they have no investment, that they will walk away. That is contrary to connection at a personal level. It comes out.

It's like starting a conversation with "I will be your friend up until you make a single mistake, at which point I'll make you feel like an idiot and never talk to you again". Even though that isn't the reality, it isn't being said - it's projected. That projection generalises the feeling.

 

[htb]

Are we talking about INTJs being avoidant? Cause that's the normal view on "writing off"/dismissive...?

It's a deficiency. Their problem; not yours.

It's like starting a conversation with "I will be your friend up until you make a single mistake, at which point I'll make you feel like an idiot and never talk to you again". Even though that isn't the reality, it isn't being said - it's projected. That projection generalises the feeling.

Yes, but it begs my question: why enter into a relationship in the first place and allow that power over you. If that is a clause in the contract, why assume that it isn't reciprocal?

Case in point: I was unceremoniously rejected at the start of the year. It hurt, but a friend's reality check a couple of days later confirmed that I had done nothing wrong. Within days I had moved from the pain and simply went about trying to parse the scrambled mind of the other party.

That took a few weeks, and then I was done; and yet ten months on, a certain someone in a Tokyo suburb is trying to sneak peeks at my website through Google cache, and tripping my counter.

But the curiosity is not mutual. The "rejection" really wasn't.

I agree that this behavior exists, but know that it shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

[Metamorphosis]

Hmm, my husband is an INTJ, my father an INTX and I have a INTJ friend as well. After a fair amount of though, I have to say, I don't find any of them intimidating and I don't find the INTJs I've meet online intimidating either. Stubborn, selfconfident, sometimes prejudiced but not intimidating in any way.

Yeah, this is generally the case. I had this very discussion with a friend of mine today (ENxP). He had no idea what I was talking about. What most people (who are friends with INTJs) don't understand, though, is that we act very different with close friends than we do when we are on our own.

 

[ptgatsby]

It's a deficiency. Their problem; not yours.

I agree that this behavior exists, but know that it shouldn't be taken seriously.

Oh, then we have no disagreement. However, that the proper solution would be not to hire them, date them, marry them or be friends with them... well, I guess it is good the world tolerates INTJs, hrmmm?

But as you say, it is easily worked around so it isn't that big of the deal. The intent was just to explain why the intimidation exists.

 

[Metamorphosis]

It's a deficiency. Their problem; not yours.

I never meant to imply that it wasn't. That's why I asked what it is that we do that causes this reaction. ...I realize this post wasn't addressed to me, though...

Yes, but it begs my question: why enter into a relationship in the first place and allow that power over you. If that is a clause in the contract, why assume that it isn't reciprocal?

Case in point: I was unceremoniously rejected at the start of the year. It hurt, but a friend's reality check a couple of days later confirmed that I had done nothing wrong. Within days I had moved from the pain and simply went about trying to parse the scrambled mind of the other party.

That took a few weeks, and then I was done, and yet ten months on, a certain someone in a Tokyo suburb is trying to sneak peeks at my website through Google cache, and tripping my counter.

But the curiosity is not mutual. The "rejection" really wasn't.

I agree that this behavior exists, but know that it shouldn't be taken seriously.

I think the difference in types of "writing people off" is somewhat confusing here. You seem to be under the impression that it is a conciously thought out process. I seem to see it as an instant decision. In my experience, we don't really forgive or forget, we just ignore the problem if we find the friendship worth more than the problem.

 

[htb]

However, that the proper solution would be not to hire them, date them, marry them or be friends with them...

I suggest petting zoos.

You seem to be under the impression that it is a consciously thought out process.

No, I do think it to be reactive and maladaptive. Decisiveness in relationships is one thing; ruthlessness (let alone pride in it) is poor judgment in every aspect, be it practical or sentimental.

 

[Metamorphosis]

I suggest petting zoos.

Gladiatorial style fighting to the death would be more entertaining for all parties involved.

The world would probably be a more peaceful place (albeit, more hippyish).

 

[runvardh]

I've actually been finding "writing people off" quite useful, just painful at first like spraining your ankle. You don't want to do it because you know of the pain; but when it happens, it happens, you deal with it and the pain eventually fades. That may be because I'm an F though...

 

[Mendacity]

INTJs write people off based on subjective values of the person. That's what is scary - any failure can make you a write off. It doesn't have to be a big thing... they just cease to have you in their 'inner circle'. No one likes having that happen to them, and the uncertainty of what causes it... that's the intimidation.

The point has kind of passed... but I'd like to say that I don't think we write people off for making one mistake that violates some obscure and subjective value of the INTJ in question. I think for us to write someone off we have to be very hurt by the person. You seem to think that we simply don't care about the people in our lives and that we can just easily walk away and I don't think that's the case. There are people I would never write off under any circumstances.
It's not as if we think "Damn, Jill threw that wrapper on the ground. I like Jill and we've been good friends for a long time, but I can't stand littering so I'm never going to speak to her again!"

 

[Mycroft]

When it comes to people I've been on good terms with for a long time, it takes quite a lot for me to decide that I'm done with them. The last such person I decided to remove from my life was a friend that, in the time I had known him, had gone from being delightfully pedantic on occasion to being a full-blown, confrontational wind bag. It got to the point where being in his presence meant biting my tongue 80 percent of the time. It's not like I dismissed him over, as Mendacity puts it, something like littering.

In fact, being that we're Ts, INTJs tend to be quite thick-skinned. I know that, personally, things have been said or done to me that others probably would have been upset by, but to which I took no affront.

When it comes to a room full of random people, I agree completely with Metamorphosis's "streamlining" analogy. The crux of the issue, and this ties into what Proteanmix was saying as well, is that I, and as it would seem from my interactions on this board, other INTJs, would generally prefer to be alone. I'm never actively seeking new friends. At any given time I have a mental list of types of people who would be useful in implementing my current plans and seek those people out. Beyond that, I won't spend time being with people I feel are of no benefit. That's time that could otherwise be spent doing things I enjoy or working on my projects.

However, I am still always, as a rule, cordial to people I meet, and when I have dismissed closer associates, I've done so quietly and without making a huge hoopla of it. I realize that they are people with their own prerogatives and personalities and that our paths have simply either not crossed to any substantial degree, in the case of the "roomful of people", or have parted, in the case of former friends. If people do realize they've been written off, which they usually don't because I'm careful to make it seem as though we simply "drifted apart", they are perfectly within their purview to think, "Well fuck him anyway!"

 

[Blackwater]

INTJs tend to "go off" on some spree of their own aligning all kinds of factors (Te) to fit with some end that they conjured up (Ni) and do so with a certitude that usually makes others think: "hmm, if they are so sure about it there must be something to it."

alternatively, if you cross an INTJ they might do the same, only in an antagonistic manner. you say "1" and they'll run through the entire numerial sequence, comming back at you accusing you of having said "64763252". This all seems logical and they come off so strongly that only people who know them very well or are equally fanatical in their judgments dare stand up to them. robespierre was probably an INTJ.

---

of all the types, INTJs are probably the type to treasure the MBTI the most. i was relieved to find out that i was an entp but it was nowhere near the excitement of some INTJs i've seen on and offline. sometimes i think that the whole myers briggs thing is merely a theater to the INTJs where they revel in the fact that they have been casted for the best part.

and as such, the only types are chiefly valuable because they confirm the validity of the play.

 

[Mycroft]

INTJs tend to "go off" on some spree of their own aligning all kinds of factors (Te) to fit with some end that they conjured up (Ni) and do so with a certitude that usually makes others think: "hmm, if they are so sure about it there must be something to it."

alternatively, if you cross an INTJ they might do the same, only in an antagonistic manner. you say "1" and they'll run through the entire numerial sequence, comming back at you accusing you of having said "64763252". This all seems logical and they come off so strongly that only people who know them very well or are equally fanatical in their judgments.

---

of all the types, INTJs are probably the type to treasure the MBTI the most. i was relieved to find out that i was an entp but it was nowhere near the excitement of some INTJs i've seen on and offline. sometimes i think that the whole myers briggs thing is merely a theater to the INTJs where they revel in the fact that they have been casted for the best part.

and as such, the only types are chiefly valuable because they confirm the validity of the play.

I don't suppose you'd care to, you know, substantiate any of these accusations?

 

[Blackwater]

this is always a predicament.

when i last told a personal story to illustrate a general point i was promply accused of being anecdotal.


EDIT oh and by the way: they are not accusations. they're general observations which you can take or leave according to how they may fit (or may not fit) with your actual personality. obviously, people aren't every facet of their type.

if it seems like I am doing this for the sake of putting anyone down please know that I welcome input on ENTP-problem areas. lord knows there are plenty.

 

[The Ü™]

Hmm, my husband is an INTJ, my father an INTX and I have a INTJ friend as well. After a fair amount of though, I have to say, I don't find any of them intimidating and I don't find the INTJs I've meet online intimidating either. Stubborn, selfconfident, sometimes prejudiced but not intimidating in any way.

I think that with their Ni dominance, INTJs more likely come across as shy, cautious, and broody, because their imaginations get confused with reality, and contrary to popular belief, the self-confidence associated with the INTJ is actually the complete opposite.

And the reason INTJs can come across as assholes is because their Intuitive imagination combined with Thinking skepticism arouses a tendency to lash out at imagined slights.

 

[Mendacity]

this is always a predicament.

when i last told a personal story to illustrate a general point i was promply accused of being anecdotal.


EDIT oh and by the way: they are not accusations. they're general observations which you can take or leave according to how they may fit (or may not fit) with your actual personality. obviously, people aren't every facet of their type.

if it seems like I am doing this for the sake of putting anyone down please know that I welcome input on ENTP-problem areas. lord knows there are plenty.

I'm not sure how you wanted your comments to be taken if not as put-downs.
I'm not sure why you felt the urge to jump into an INTJ discussion to tell us all what crappy examples of human beings we are and how glad you are that you aren't one of us.
I will politely decline your invitation to give "input on ENTP problem areas" since I'm on this forum to discuss MBTI with people, not insult them.
Obviously you were deeply traumatized by some INTJ somewhere. That's too bad. It's also too bad that the experience has prejudiced you against an entire group of people. So much so, in fact, that you just insulted a great number of them whom you have never met by making "observations" you will not back up with facts or experiences at the risk of having them called anecdotal.
Should I take this behavior to be typical of all ENTPs?

 

[Blackwater]

this is a great example of assuming a good deal more than what was actually expressed, Mendacity.

I will politely decline your invitation to give "input on ENTP problem areas" since I'm on this forum to discuss MBTI with people, not insult them.

yes yes. let's hush up the problematic tendencies associated with type. you have the moral high ground.

 

[Mendacity]

this is a great example of assuming a good deal more than what was actually expressed, Mendacity.
yes yes. let's hush up the problematic tendencies associated with type. you have the moral high ground.

We were having a nice conversation and you walked in and insulted everyone. I have no problems with discussing the problematic tendencies associated with type (speaking of assuming a good deal more than what was actually expressed?), but I do take issue with insulting or antagonistic behavior.
And I'm responding to this knowing it's a bad idea because you obviously just want a fight and apparently won't rest until you get one.
Goodnight, Blackwater.

 

[Blackwater]

look up my past posts. i don't fight but i do come right out and say things, skipping the usual soothing disclaimers.

as I said:

they're general observations which you can take or leave according to how they may fit (or may not fit) with your actual personality. obviously, people aren't every facet of their type.

a parallel example:

I say: "Americans are obese."

You happen to be an American, but you also happen to be in control of your weight. - Why should you feel insulted?



Of course, every American isn't obese. But compared to other nationalities Americans are obese.". Of course every INTJ isn't like robespierre. But compared to other types they probably are.