[NT] NT! Why are you ASSHOLES?

[Verfremdungseffekt]

I have so much NF goo all over me that I can't even find my NT sometimes.

Sounds exhausting.

I've some handi-wipes here, if that will help.

 

[ceecee]

Sounds exhausting.

I've some handi-wipes here, if that will help.

It's not that bad but sometimes I have to squeegee that shit off me. I'm sure that puts me in the asshole camp.

 

[Mondo]

Seriously,

Don't give me this I am so out of touch with my emotions crap. You are all smart people. You understand MBTI. So why, with all your knowledge are you so goddamn proud at your dysfunction and assholery? You would think, if you were a real NT, that you would be ashamed at what you have not perfected.

I wouldn't personally consider it to be 'out of touch with my emotions'. Rather, I would consider it to be 'having control over my emotions'.

On average, the NT values emotional willpower more than the other Keirsey temperaments.

 

[BlahBlahNounBlah]

There are some NTs who will intentionally target-practice an F's sore spots.


But some Fs are extremely quick to assume that's what an NT is doing when he isn't. And even when the NT tries to explain he was merely speaking candidly and meant no harm, some Fs refuse to believe it.


I think they assume that because that's what they do.

 

[ed111]

I'm not knocking the autistic I am saying. Are you retarded?

If not, then why would you be so proud to be cold.


This signifies one of two things to me,

A) You're not an NT
B) You think it is cool to be disconnected


Now both of these theories seem really interesting to me in that they probably signify some other deeply rooted emotional issue. Which in itself is ironic. No?

Who died and made you god? Seriously...

I consider myself to be a good person. I know a lot of other INTJs and they're all great people without exception. Some are shy, all like their own space, all are hard working and studious. They care for other people, but mainly for their own family for whom they'd do anything to help. They have a small circle of close friends and don't equate how good they are as people by how many friends they have on their MSN/facebook list (like a lot of exfxs do).

However, we don't tend to walk around all day with big stupid grins on our faces, but I don't think that makes us assholes. It reminds me of a Bill Hicks sketch:

"Don't you hate those people that come up to you and say ... 'hey you know it takes less energy to smile than it does to frown?' 'Yeah, you know it takes more energy to point that out than it does to leave me alone?'"

 

[BlahBlahNounBlah]

It reminds me of a Bill Hicks sketch:

"Don't you hate those people that come up to you and say ... 'hey you know it takes less energy to smile than it does to frown?' 'Yeah, you know it takes me energy to point that out than it does to leave me alone?'"

 

[Mondo]

There are some NTs who will intentionally target-practice an F's sore spots.


But some Fs are extremely quick to assume that's what an NT is doing when he isn't. And even when the NT tries to explain he was merely speaking candidly and meant no harm, some NFs refuse to believe it.


I think they assume that because that's what they do.

Yea, one of the few games in which it's probably a really bad idea to hit bullseye..

 

[Jwill]

Like ThatGirl, I find it annoying sometimes to read the frequent posts by self-proclaimed assholes. Sometimes it's funny, but it gets old fast. I'm an INTJ, and that crowd, in particular seems to have a lot of people who try to play up their assholery. It seems so superficial sometimes. Like, I can't count how many posts I've read from INTJs claiming to have no soul and wanting to take over the world from their garage.

I partly blame Myers-Brigg for this. Some people read the type descriptions and then cling to them rigidly. Their type becomes a huge part of who they perceive themselves as.

I think it's the nature of the internet to encourage gratuitous self-obsession and the belief that our little differences are incredibly important. Some NTs who are looking for a unique public identity may latch on to their asshole-ness and try and magnify it. Maybe for some it's better to be an asshole than unnoticed. Of course, I'm talking about the NTs who take a great deal of pride in their supposed heartlessness. I think it's a case of people looking for an identity. And I think that there are certain immature or lost people simply imagining themselves to be NTs because NTs seem so masculine, strong, and disconnected from emotional pain.

Sure, some NTs are genuine NTs. Some are also genuine assholes. But when some of them constantly mention what big assholes they are, I do have to wonder about their agenda behind it. Like, yeah, you've told me 100 times that you're a heartless bastard. Why do you care enough about that fact to constantly bring it up?

 

[Moiety]

I wouldn't personally consider it to be 'out of touch with my emotions'. Rather, I would consider it to be 'having control over my emotions'.

On average, the NT values emotional willpower more than the other Keirsey temperaments.

I don't agree that an NT has any more "control" over his/her emotions than an NF (for example) on average. They just have less emotion to "control".

 

[Kra]

I think it's the nature of the internet to encourage gratuitous self-obsession and the belief that our little differences are incredibly important. Some NTs who are looking for a unique public identity may latch on to their asshole-ness and try and magnify it. Maybe for some it's better to be an asshole than unnoticed. Of course, I'm talking about the NTs who take a great deal of pride in their supposed heartlessness. I think it's a case of people looking for an identity. And I think that there are certain immature or lost people simply imagine themselves to be NTs because NTs seem so masculine, strong, and disconnected from emotional pain.

Sure, some NTs are genuine NTs. Some are also genuine assholes. But when some of them constantly mention what big assholes they are, I do have to wonder their agenda behind it. Like, yeah, you've told me 100 times that you're a heartless bastard. Why do you care enough about that fact to constantly bring it up?

I definitely think that's the reason a lot of younger folks do it.

Being "mellow" is much more self-satisfying than being icy, and is most likely much more appreciated by the world around us. Different strokes I guess, but I do think the internet has a HUGE influence on our perception here. I rarely meet other NTs in the real world, and they're almost always easy-going.

 

[Moiety]

I do think the internet has a HUGE influence on our perception here. I rarely meet other NTs in the real world, and they're almost always easy-going.

It does yes. All the NTs I know are "nice people".

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

YouTube - Asshole

 

[ghoti]

I'm more zen than a rock garden.

But I agree with the assessment that a lot of people associate themselves with NT because they like to view themselves as strong, independent and original thinkers, whether or not it's true. It's not really my place to say whether people have mistyped themselves, but it's usually the most irrational people I see claiming to be rational to justify their emotionally driven and short-sighted arguments. They FEEL justified in their beliefs, so they claim it's rational and logical to give credit to their argument.

Typically I find this more true with men than women, as men are expected to be thinkers since feeling is apparently something only women are allowed to do. But just because you like football more than fuzzy kittens doesn't make you a thinker. Watch a group of men get emotionally involved in a sports game and you'll know exactly what I mean.

To be honest, I think it's a bunch of volatile and bitter feelers that latch onto the perceived NT identity so they have an excuse to say shit and build themselves a tough guy exterior to protect their own vulnerabilities. The people most sensitive to criticism are the first to pull out the I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK card in defence. Of course there are assholes of all types.

But whatever. I walk away whenever people try to start shit with me. I'm just not interested.

 

[proteanmix]

I find the reactions in this thread curious for several reasons.

First of all thatgirl asked a rather valid question in an emotionally reactive way and she got tons of emotionally reactive replies. The only people who tried to take the thread in a more productive direction is fidelia and kuranes. Does that indicate anything to anyone or is it just me?

Many people in my real life don't know about MBTI so if they're both NT and an asshole (asshole comes in many different flavors, YUM!!) they're not merging the two together. I do see this attitude a lot on the MBTI forums though. I've written most of this off as the bravado and braggadocio people get when under the anonymity of the internet.

I have several instances that stand out in my mind regarding NT assholery. I organize a movie group and in my group, there is a clique of NTs (they know their MBTI type but haven't indicated they know anything in depth about typology) who I had to regularly police for attacking other group members. My group is a discussion based group where we enjoy dissecting themes and characters in the movies we see, so I guess it's pretty idea-centered and open to subjective interpretation. I don't run a group where members are allowed to bash others because then I wouldn't have any members. There are no right or wrong answers. I've seen these NT guys needle people on their ideas, try to disprove them, one started banging on the table once telling someone how wrong they were. I had to shut him down immediately and tell him to leave. At that particular gathering last summer when I had other members telling me they felt physically uncomfortable with their antics and they were leaving the group. I'm pretty sure most of the regulars in my group are intuitives simply because of the nature of the discussions so this wasn't a dominant S/N communication problem.

I think it's funny because to look at these guys they were very puny and nerdy physically. They most definitely tried to dominate intellectually but they went about it ALL WRONG. They didn't even get the intellectual respect they were after, people eventually ignored them and didn't engage or respond to their comments. I suppose I let it go on for the summer from my own curiosity but at the end I asked them not to come back and they didn't.

I wondered why they felt so comfortable behaving the way they did in my movie group, when I was 95% sure they would not behave that way in any other social settings or rather where they were in an arena they knew they were outmatched. The first guy that joined came by himself and was fine. The next several times he brought his friends and that's when the assholishness began. I felt it was cowardly in the sense that it was three of them ganging up on people and not even one of them individually taking on another person. It's the same principle I believe is at work here on the forum, which is why I just don't take people that act the same way here seriously. It's a bitch move and people can see it and people that act this way don't even get what they're after. I think they were after intellectual respect and probably blinded to that aspect of themselves so in that sense it was obliviousness. But there were definite provocations and antagonism towards other members that was not oblivious and probably done for their sick entertainment. Douchbags do indeed wear uniforms and they're not always popped collars.

We all are self-blind to major tracks of ourselves, so I can't make this a particularly NT thing, it's just the way these guys manifested it was NT-like. What is sad is these guys were in their late late 20s so to be that immature at that age is regrettable. I think that's just the way they are and that's it; change is distant speck on the horizon. I would also like to add most of the people I identified as NTs did not behave this way and a highly regarded member who is thoughtful and respectful is INTP. When someone asks a question and no one knows the answer all heads turn to him. That's respect right there and I bet he doesn't even try.

Does strict neutrality only seem "cold" to Feelers ?

If you ( as an "F" oriented person ) were a new member of a team consisting of mostly "T"'s, would you not expect some voluntary "welcome" from these incumbents, or at least information helping to bring you up to speed on informal past actions and positions among the group ? I think it would be reasonable to expect that, unless you had already demonstrated a stubbornness to all these positions, come what may.

My research department at work is mostly T in the higher positions and F in the lower positions (support and administrative staff). As an outsider looking in and as someone who talks to the Fs in the department they have felt the abruptness. I would say it's more task-oriented. It's not that there's no socializing it just seems more event based socializing than relational socializing which Fs are more accustomed to. I think the perception of cold is a variable one. Dispositions are different and as long as there's no purposeful hostility and nastiness I'd say people just have to get over it. But some of this just seems like knowledge you'd pick up from being around other human beings. On a certain level, you can't take it personally so coldness isn't even a factor. I can feel that someone is being cold but depending on what their role is in relation to mine it just gets ignored and filed under human behavior. And even then, I can't say this is a cold person, it may be tons of other reasons why someone behaved the way they did.

Yesterday I was at a law school fair and I was speaking to one recruiter who I initially thought to myself "does he even want to be here?" become increasingly animated as the conversation went on and as a tried changed my line of conversation to be more engaging to him to get the information I needed. By the end of the conversation he was standing, speaking louder, smiling, and making lots of hand gestures. Yeah, he was cold to begin with but I've found coldness tends to be connected to level of engagement. Another recruiter started off very bubbly but after a few minutes her eyes were darting away, she started checking her cell phone, kept taking sips of water, and her voice volume got lower. She was signaling that she was ready to move on to the next person in line. If I had walked away from either one of them before these changes started to happen I would have gotten completely different impressions.

As judgmental as I pride myself on being, I find things like this to be moving targets. Sometimes you can get an accurate impression of the essence someone in a brief amount of time and sometimes you can't.

Explaining the complexities of this are such that some people ( sincerely or not ) may simply say "tl/dr"...

Almost, but I got through it because I like what you're saying.

 

[Salomé]

"Why are you an ASSHOLE?" is a valid question? You're surprised by the reactions? Is "why are you stoopid" a valid question too?

 

[CJ99]

I think it may be because NTs are generally not as emotional as other people due to them not being as aware of them. Thus they don't cevelop them to as much of an extent as other types.

Therefor NTs give in to the cold perception as other types are generally not understanding of how NTs do have emotions but they are not as developed or as noticed by NTs as they are with other types.

 

[deepthought]

Im probably one of the nicest NT's you'd ever meet( if you ever met me), only thanks to my devoloped Fe(ESFJ mom). I think as long as the NT is an NTP they can be very accepting of others and less asshole then the NTJ, only due to the face that NTP has Ti and Ti allows one too see from all perspectives, while NTJ has Te which differs very differently from Ti.

 

[Valuable_Money]

I have so much NF goo all over me that I can't even find my NT sometimes.

Actualy, that was me. Sorry about that

 

[Spartacuss]

There are some NTs who will intentionally target-practice an F's sore spots.


But some Fs are extremely quick to assume that's what an NT is doing when he isn't. And even when the NT tries to explain he was merely speaking candidly and meant no harm, some Fs refuse to believe it.


I think they assume that because that's what they do.

+ 1000

"Why are you an ASSHOLE?" is a valid question? You're surprised by the reactions? Is "why are you stoopid" a valid question too?

lulz

 

[ceecee]

I think it may be because NTs are generally not as emotional as other people due to them not being as aware of them.

Right. How can you be guilty of being cold/unfeeling/unemotional if you aren't even aware? What makes me more frustrated than anything are the people (F's much of the time) that want to know what we really feel. When we reply "I don't know" it actually means we don't know. It's not a emotionless cop out.