[NT] The iceman and the child

[Fidelia]

When you are accepted as the iceman, does it make it easier for the child to come out and play, or is that a whole separate set of circumstances?

 

[EJCC]

When you are accepted as the iceman, does it make it easier for the child to come out and play, or is that a whole separate set of circumstances?

For me:
They're all linked. Each is a stage that NTs/SJs/whoever must go through with anyone they want to be close to (since you have to reveal your "child" in order to have a successful relationship, really). There should be some time between each stage, some trust development, etc. So I don't know if it makes it "easier" for the child to come out (it's never easy to take that first step with anyone... in my case), but it makes it more likely.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

When you are accepted as the iceman, does it make it easier for the child to come out and play, or is that a whole separate set of circumstances?

Like EJCC said, I would argue that each facet of my personality is a stage that a potential friend or significant other has to pass before being able to see the rest of me.

Stage:
1) socialite - the person in question meets me at a social gathering, and this is the character they first meet. This applies where ever this person happens to meet me. Even if I'm in class, I'll turn on the socialite charm to leave a warmer first impression on new people.

2) iceman - It takes me a while to be able to truly reveal the iceman to people. I think this comes from my fear of rejection. I'm wary of showing others (especially those who have only seen the socialite) the iceman because he is a lot different from the socialite and others can be taken aback by the shift in personality. However, if i have no intention of being friends or more with someone, and they are merely a work or school associate, the only part of me they will ever see will be the iceman. This also goes for those who see me out in everyday life, as I tend stay in iceman mode in my daily life unless I'm joined by friends or others.

3) child - It takes me even longer to show others the child. The number of people who have seen the child is far fewer than those who have seen my other two personas. It can take years for me to be comfortable with showing the child to people. I feel that the child is the most genuine part of myself.

 

[BlackCat]

I think what you're going through is perfectly normal for XXTJs, but especially EXTJs. It just seems to be a natural defense against showing your vulnerable side to the wrong people (that's how I see it). I can relate, in being an Fi dominant I can pretty easily get in sync with people and their feelings and such, but I'm afraid of showing that logical side to them until I'm confident enough around them.

The only time I'd say that this is a major problem is if you aren't showing this inner child to anyone, to over protect it. You don't seem to have this problem though (be glad). If the girls you are meeting don't appreciate the initial self you present then they probably won't like you anyway.

To more readily express this side I think you should be more trusting. Make more judgments on people, what I do is I try to see if the person would be judgmental or not toward my logical side, if I make that judgment I'll usually try it out. I'm not going to get harmed, and if they attack my logical side (if I'm wrong about stuff and they attack me, this is my main fear around this side of me. Inferior Te ) then I just simply stop associating with them soon after. But most people that I judge as being trustworthy for this side are trustworthy, I've gotten more accurate over time. If you could do something similar to this then that would be beneficial.

In my experience with ENTJs they do exactly what you do. They show me that logical side first, and then we have discussions over common interests. Then eventually we will open up to the other and trust the other. This is when I've seen the "inner child" come to surface, after we've had some good discussions and we can relate on a few levels. Also after they've decided that I'm not a failure of a human being .

The people that you should stick by will accept you for who you are, so if you go about things the way you're doing them now then you ought to be okay. But if you learn to trust people a little bit quicker with that inner child side of yourself then you should be alright.

I hope I helped and that this wasn't just meaningless rambling.

 

[violet_crown]

Like EJCC said, I would argue that each facet of my personality is a stage that a potential friend or significant other has to pass before being able to see the rest of me.

So is there one that you identify to be your "true" self?

 

[Fidelia]

Black Cat just made me start thinking about the different personas that other types have. Some don't come off as the iceman, but have some kind of persona that does keep people at a distance from their inmost self. This is fine when it is used correctly, but I think the rest of us struggle with showing our very own self for fear of rejection. It seems to me that TJ types have a fear of looking vulnerable in any way and at the same time, know that the tough exterior can repel people if not used judiciously. For me, my fear of burdening other people and the importance I place on the things that matter to me makes me appear to others as either snobby or disinterested or blandly "nice". While it is a slightly softer exterior, it still distances people and limits myself when not controlled properly.

 

[EJCC]

DiscoBiscuit: I completely agree. That almost perfectly describes me.

So is there one that you identify to be your "true" self?

Oh, no, not at all. They're all me. I don't really put on acts in front of people. They're all true in their own way.

I think what you're going through is perfectly normal for XXTJs, but especially EXTJs. It just seems to be a natural defense against showing your vulnerable side to the wrong people (that's how I see it). I can relate, in being an Fi dominant I can pretty easily get in sync with people and their feelings and such, but I'm afraid of showing that logical side to them until I'm confident enough around them.

So, for you, is it more like socialite and then iceman? Not that those terms would be the same for you... but it's kind of reversed?

If the girls you are meeting don't appreciate the initial self you present then they probably won't like you anyway.

True. Even my very closest friends have to deal with the socialite

To more readily express this side I think you should be more trusting. Make more judgments on people, what I do is I try to see if the person would be judgmental or not toward my logical side, if I make that judgment I'll usually try it out. I'm not going to get harmed, and if they attack my logical side (if I'm wrong about stuff and they attack me, this is my main fear around this side of me. Inferior Te ) then I just simply stop associating with them soon after.

I'm the same way with the socialite persona. If people don't get my sense of humor (and I don't get theirs), I generally give up, because for me that's the most basic requirement for friendship.

But most people that I judge as being trustworthy for this side are trustworthy, I've gotten more accurate over time. If you could do something similar to this then that would be beneficial.

I think this comes easier for ExTJ women than for men. I know two ENTJs - one is a man, one is a woman. I've known the woman for less time, but she's already at the Iceman stage with me, whereas the man, who I've known for longer, hasn't really passed the Socialite stage. (Or maybe it's just me? I mean, I'm not sure if I'm past the Socialite stage around HIM.)

I hope I helped and that this wasn't just meaningless rambling.

No, it helped Thanks for your input.


EDIT: I meant "iceman and then socialite".

 

[BlackCat]

So, for you, is it more like socialite and then iceman? Not that those terms would be the same for you... but it's kind of reversed?

Yeah I have a mask that I have on for default interactions like you guys do. Being perfectly acceptable of course, it isn't fake, I'm just not revealing myself too much. It's more of a protective thing that I do, it's more of a trial period. To make sure I can trust the person mainly, but also to see if they would make a good and interesting friend. That tells me the measure of crazy I let someone on to. That's socialite.

As for "ice man" for me I get more personal, asking all about them, I dunno just basically getting more personal with them. This is the stage where I get to know them, get them to know me, etc. Once I get to the 3rd stage is where I let my true thoughts flow, my judgments, controversial opinions etc. Inferior Te is odd, but I basically just let my more harsh side out when I want to, the more blunt side, etc. When I'm being blunt, not worrying about what I'm saying around you (of course while avoiding being offensive at the same time) then you know I've let you in.

So for me the "ice man" and "inner child" stages are reversed. Maybe this is why IXFPs are recommended to get with EXTJs (ISFP with ESTJ, INFP with ENTJ)? Because in my experience I've opened up pretty quickly to EXTJs, probably because we are presenting each other's "inner child" sides when we get comfortable with the other. I've noticed this in my interactions.

Oh boy I went on a tangent. Not trying to derail... but yeah.

I'm the same way with the socialite persona. If people don't get my sense of humor (and I don't get theirs), I generally give up, because for me that's the most basic requirement for friendship.

Me too.

I think this comes easier for ExTJ women than for men. I know two ENTJs - one is a man, one is a woman. I've known the woman for less time, but she's already at the Iceman stage with me, whereas the man, who I've known for longer, hasn't really passed the Socialite stage. (Or maybe it's just me? I mean, I'm not sure if I'm past the Socialite stage around HIM.)

Hmm... I dunno. I wouldn't know.