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[NT] NTs . . . Why are You Messy?

bluebell

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Apr 30, 2007
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I only read the first twenty posts or so of this thread, ran out of concentration.


I'm always as light as a feather, so don't worry about that, dude.

And, I'm not concerned with the issue of dusting, vacuuming, etc. I'm speaking to a system, which is easily created, that will ultimately allow more time to do you "interesting things." In other words, it's much faster to put something in a logical location in order to easily locate it, or them, than it is to have to spend time looking and thinking about where the items are at present time. If NTs are about systems, than why would so many of them continually live in disorder, lack of precision, and carelessness?

I am extremely organised internally, somewhat organised with electronic filing and with paper, I'll just quote one of my colleagues from last week '[bluebell], paper is really not your friend, is it'.

I've yet to be able to design a system for dealing with paper that survives busy times, and I've trialled many. Now I just go with the flow and if the paper piles up in incoherent layers on my desk at work, so be it. But ask me about any email, document, meeting or person, and I'll be able to tell you about it from memory.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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I'm mostly messy because I don't externalize order well.

I usually have too much stuff for too little living space. I also have trouble creating arbitrary boxes -- my sense of nuance is too strong -- so i can't even just have hard categories for where things go. I can't keep with a filing system, it always feels inadequate for the items I'm trying to place, and so then I just give up and it gets dumped in convenient places which creates clutter.

As far as whether it 'works' -- yes, I remember where I put things in relation to OTHER things, rather than due to the specific qualities of the thing. If you want to make my life a living hell, just clean up my place without warning me. I will no longer know where anything is.
 

spirilis

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I think of it as conservation of resources. Keeping my external world organized requires a certain amount of time and energy, and I just don't care about it enough to expend my limited time and resources into doing it.

That said, having just bought a house. . . . .it looks like I gotta get on the ball.
 
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ajblaise

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I might be messy because of genetics or my early environment. Both my parents are messy absent-minded xNTPs and growing up everything was always scattered all over the place.

When objects become irrelevant to me, it's like they cease to be there. Only when their importance is called back into action in my mind do they re-crystallize into existence. Perhaps the messiness that often comes as a result is a mild negative when it comes to quality-of-life, but perhaps having this unstructured kind of mindset serves as a positive when adaptability is required.
 

thisGuy

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Mar 14, 2009
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it seems like a determent to my next activity.

coming back from doing groceries, i organize them into the fridge, freezer, and the cupboards because thats essential to my needs. doing that, i usually can't wait to get to whatever i have planned next so i meet the required amount of organization and be done with it.

through experience i have learned that its not good to shove all the produce on one shelf cuz that leads to rotting lettuce because it got stuck in the very back. so now i take some effort to separate and stack my groceries a little differently
 

freedom geek

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Because cleaning takes away precious time and energy which I could devote to other matters.
 

alicia91

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Nov 20, 2007
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671
I'm answering on behalf of my ENTJ husband.

Basically like others have said, he's got more important things to do- it's low on his priority list. And, though he won't admit it - he thinks the cleaning up fairy will take care of it (of course - that would be me :steam:).
 

Pyrrho

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Jun 22, 2009
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Time spent "organizing" would be greater than the time saved by being "organized" in most cases (bedroom, for example). If I can still find everything I need without wasting time arranging it, then that is clearly the more logical choice.
 

INTJ123

HAHHAHHAH!
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Jun 20, 2009
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probably cause I don't think in a linear fashion, I'll be doing one thing here, then get distracted and I might drop it to do something else. Because of this, it's better to leave it so I can pick up right where I left off later. If it gets cleaned up it's actually disorganizing it for me because I'll have to remember how and where I left off. It's just easier that way for me.
 

redsox44344

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Probably because in my mind, messy IS orderly. Just like in my room, my brain is completely chaotic, and yet in my room I still know where everything is.
 

Son of the Damned

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There is no real reason for it. I just am. though, if I had to give a reason, I would say its preference.
 

substitute

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I've sometimes ruminated with my ISTJ friend (who is also quite messy), that messiness and tidiness of external and internal environments are somewhat inversely proportional...

My mom for example, is obsessively tidy, neat and clean. Yet her mind seems to be to be a big, chaotic mess. Slow and lazy thinking all over the place, bumbling along with half-assed and difficult methods because it's what she's been taught, rather than thinking for herself of easier ways to do things. Conflicting emotions and strong attachments to people and their affairs, over which she has no influence and in which she has no vested interest, and over perceived obligations that are entirely in her own head. Ask her what she thinks of this or that, and she either won't answer you, or she'll answer something that's so full of holes, you could use it strain your spaghetti. And yet, she's certainly not dumb either.

My sister however, is probably one of the messiest people I know. And yet, if you talk to her, you can see her mind is actually pretty well ordered. She knows what's what, what her positions are, her obligations, what they're NOT, where she's at, what she wants... she's sharp and quick and press as you might, you can see she's thought things through and connected them all together. It doesn't take her long after discovering a new thing or experience, before she's found more efficient ways to do things and she's as at home with her own company as she is with a few friends or at a big party.

And the funny thing is, neither of them are NT's... my mom's an ESFJ and my sister's ENFJ.

I think tidiness is more about S than any other function. Particularly SJ, though not always, as in the case of the friend I mentioned earlier. But it's not necessarily tidiness, so much as (perceived) cleanliness and order. Having things the way they like them.

I think though, quite often, that the reason why my mom seems to need everything to be so anally neat and arranged, is because her mind's so cluttered and messy, she can't deal with her external world unless it can be relied on to be static and unchanging and predictable, because she can't be!
 

Froody Blue Gem

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Meh, I'm just a naturally disorganized person. Even my thought process, though I like to pick things apart, is quite scattered and putting it into words gets sloppy. And when I try to get words out, what comes out is not what I was intending and it takes a long time to get it worded right. At my current job, some issues have come up so I'm slowly working to be more aware.

Sometimes when doing art, or other stuff and when a mess is made, I'm not really aware of the mess until it's pointed out to me. It doesn't help that I like to finish what I'm doing and then clean up after myself. The second step may not happen at all if my mind is on other things and I don't realize it. It's not so much out of laziness, maybe more not noticing and scatterbrainedness. It's rattled a lot of neat freak's jimmies. There seems to be a principle of entropy with my room that I clean it but if I am busy with other stuff, it just becomes messy. People would assume I make the mess on purpose looking at it but it's completely unintentional.
 

Maou

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I prefer the term organized chaos. I know where everything is. I am honestly a lot like Froody above.
 

Virtual ghost

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I am not. If you make order on constant basis you don't need large amount of time to keep it orderly, since the key is in the fact that work shouldn't pile up.


(P people hate me)
 

Jaguar

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My bedroom looks like a bomb went off and my den doesn't. Do you think I have orderly sex? Wanker.
 

Virtual ghost

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Being messy is inefficient, definitely doesn't promote time saving and after awhile will drive me insane. I use to be in the I don't care camp but after organizing my spaces and keeping them that way I found life as a whole had more balance. Not so much..where the fuck are my chunky black heels because I'm certainly not walking around in spike 5 inchers all day because that's all I can find.

I know this is 10 years old but I have to agree. I was risen to be a P person but it just doesn't work for me. In the mess I don't have impression that I am in control of things and that doesn't sit well with me or what I want and In the mess I am half depressed/confused by default. Not to mention that some people liked their space much more when I did fundamental cleaning/ordering there. Mess really effects the moods/energy and most people don't seem to get that.



I might be messy because of genetics or my early environment. Both my parents are messy absent-minded xNTPs and growing up everything was always scattered all over the place.

When objects become irrelevant to me, it's like they cease to be there. Only when their importance is called back into action in my mind do they re-crystallize into existence. Perhaps the messiness that often comes as a result is a mild negative when it comes to quality-of-life, but perhaps having this unstructured kind of mindset serves as a positive when adaptability is required.


I am child of two messy FPs but I didn't turn out like this and my own parents often claim that there was probably a swap in the nursery. The problem is that mess often is doing exactly the opposite of flexibility. Since you can't start anything fast because you are completely surrounded with environment you don't control.



I prefer the term organized chaos. I know where everything is. I am honestly a lot like Froody above.

Perhaps you wouldn't believe me but I know people that say exactly that, but they constantly have to search through piles of stuff. Often I even tease them with "If you know where everything is can you please tell me what exactly do you have in that pile?" and they don't know what to say to that. :D





Just saying.
 

Maou

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[MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION]

Well, I don't have piles of anything to sort through. I am also a minimalist. I hate cluttering of valueables, but I also don't clean up the various empty bottles I have strewn about. As trash objects I don't care about, but valuable objects are all in a proper place. So really all the mess is super easy to clean up when I am ready. No sorting or organizing required.
 

Virtual ghost

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[MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION]

Well, I don't have piles of anything to sort through. I am also a minimalist. I hate cluttering of valueables, but I also don't clean up the various empty bottles I have strewn about. As trash objects I don't care about, but valuable objects are all in a proper place. So really all the mess is super easy to clean up when I am ready. No sorting or organizing required.


Then you are much better than people I know. Since there were entire rooms to which you couldn't even enter from all the stuff and hallways had only about 10 inches of free space, just so that you can pass through.
 
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