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[NT] BEST Critic: INTJ or INTP?

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
6,387
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
What makes you think that function theory is correct ?
(just curious)

I don't. It's just a theory. But in analysis of myself, I seem to fit the ENTP function theory quite exactly. Actually, this is the one thing in my life that I can say is an almost completely accurate description of me - even down to the age I developed certain functions.

I'm always curious as to why others do or don't believe in it. I like to hear different points of view.

Also, I am always curious as to how it feels to be unsure of one's type, since mine is so clear I cannot imagine ever doubting it.
 

Maverick

New member
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
880
MBTI Type
ENTJ
What type [in a vacuum] makes the most logical, unbiased, painfully true critique? I am looking for a type that is most naturally capable (and does so actively on the most regular basis) of making a summation not crafted to drive the nail in deeper, sway to their personal point of view, or even flatter/attempt to avoid offending.

ENTJ, because their first function of "Extraverted Thinking", is the most unbiased, painfully true and objective of all.
 

Afkan

New member
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
324
Because the definition of "Extraverted Thinking" embodies critical and empirical thinking.

I understand that is what you are saying. I do not mean to be obstinate or challenge your authority. However, I was hoping for more information in your answer.
 

nocebo

New member
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Messages
89
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
7
I agree with you whole-heartedly. Intuitive types are just so rare in the first place. I wish to hire a writer from a specific group of writers, but its a large group and I cannot possibly find out enough from all of them. I'd prefer to have them take a personality test to narrow the field and then compare their writing. And of course, as a J I prefer to have a definite answer in my mind about who "should" be better, and then look at their writing and compare. This process tells me a LOT about how healthy or just more about the individuals- imperative when hiring someone you may never see face to face. I'm sure you can understand how someone like me (an ENFJ) might feel uncomfortable working with, managing, and depending on people when communication is so limited. No facial expressions, no voice intonation... Ahhh!!!

Experience and credentials are nice. Writing samples are even better.

Yeah, my mom is like that, too.
She can't even talk to people over text, it drives her crazy!

Best of luck. :D
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
7,914
MBTI Type
INTP
Believe me, ENTP. I speak from years of experience dealing with writers and critics.

ENTPs are highly adaptable and can switch writing styles at the drop of a hat. The dominant Ne makes sure no stone is left unturned when researching and fact checking. The Ti is precise and razor sharp. The NeFe combo is very welcoming and inviting. An encyclopedia is designed for ENTPs - a smorgasbord of a million interesting topics, but in short segments. Also, ENTPs and ENFJs work very well together, and communicate well together.

I love INTPs and think they can analyze the death out of something, but it has to be a very specific something and they often miss some variables. The INTJs are also very capable, but I find them to be a bit dismissive and also too clinical in their writing style. Both of them, though, have such a boring, dense writing style which is better su. ited for tech spec manuals that no one will ever take out of the plastic.

I'd probably give an ENTP the job of promoting the movie, rather than reviewing it. You're expert bull-shitters. But with critiquing, you don't so much need a large array of possible interpretations and new ideas to be created, instead things need to be narrowed down. Ti precision and analysis is more important for this and finding just the right words to clearly explain something.
 

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
6,387
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
I'd probably give an ENTP the job of promoting the movie, rather than reviewing it. You're expert bull-shitters. But with critiquing, you don't so much need a large array of possible interpretations and new ideas to be created, instead things need to be narrowed down. Ti precision and analysis is more important for this and finding just the right words to clearly explain something.

The natural promoter is the ESTP.

Also, if you don't understand how Ne plays a huge role in critiquing and analyzing, that proves my point exactly. Ti is precise, without a doubt, but INTPs are too single minded to notice if there is a deeper meaning than what is just presented and obvious.
 

Blank

.
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
1,201
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
But bc you are an INTP don't you possess advanced knowledge on a variety of subjects? Of course Albert Einstein was pretty focused on very a specific discourse.

In a certain sense, I would say yes.

However, I think that I'd like to point out something that most people (including INTP's) may not realize about INTP's. Most of the "advanced" knowledge INTPs ascertain from certain topics is probably due to them initially becoming acquainted with that topic and then Ne-storming the shit out of it in our minds until the topic "clicks," and we get the feel for it and the "Intuition" to figure out how things will or can turn out.

This being said, a lot of the "advanced" knowledge is being able to think on the spot and let events materialize. The more "expert" we are on a subject is more than likely due to being "expert" and reading multiple sources on the topic.


My quote earlier about things not being my forte was in reference to stuff like cars and sports...Stuff most other men care about.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
LOL looking at my whole entire life, I am not an ENTP, but I did score as an ENTP previously.

Wasn't basing it on your previous incarnation. The accusation of "ENTP" is based on what you're doing here in this thread.

Alternatively, name an ENFJ who promotes division and competition for the sake of learning more about people and you're her.


And I amend my previous answer from ISFJ to INFP. In a vacuum they're logical, unbiased, and painfully true, emphasis on pain.
 

Afkan

New member
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
324
The accusation of "ENTP" is based on what you're doing here in this thread.
Well, regardless, I am impressed that you made the astute observation.

Alternatively, name an ENFJ who promotes division and competition for the sake of learning more about people and you're her.
Or him. JK. Great pts. My alter ego is ENTP, you are so right. I am addicted to harmony, however. My first response is to wince in pain, but then I think about how to best communicate with you guys, and still be myself. Plus, I am all for competition. When in Rome...I find you guys' insights precious and invaluable, and intellectual competition is a way to schmooze. Or else I might not keep things going. Its for the greater good. I don't want to distract from the topic either, bc that can offend, and also giving an answer without justification for it can offend...so in a way, I am promoting competition in order to promote harmony. I speak the lang.
I mean, look at this thread- its beautiful. I am much more comfortable with dissonance than the usual ENFJ. But its evolution, I am convinced- Dissonance is what propels ppl to motivation. If as an ENFJ I am always trying to shield ppl from feeling bad, they will never achieve their potential, and I won't even ever find out what their true passion is. Thus leading them down the wrong road for them. Its the negative emotions that tell us what we want, much more than the positive.

And I amend my previous answer from ISFJ to INFP. In a vacuum they're logical, unbiased, and painfully true, emphasis on pain.

Thank you for the answer. I am scratching my head, though. I think you are just trying to figure me out. You are welcome to, though. Keep it coming.
My reasoning is that a close friend who is an INFP is often illogical and doesn't make sense. She can cut to the core of truth, but not if she is emotionally invested.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
Well, I'll tell you what, the real answer, for most logical, unbiased, painfully true critique is ENFJ. And they're good writers. It's just they almost never come right out and say that critique. Same with INFP, good writers and great critiquers, except INFP is actually more likely to say what they think, but just in such a quick, low voice, and then it's gone. I still say get them tipsy. Then you'll start hearing some things you didn't expect. Is it okay if the article is written drunk?
 

Afkan

New member
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
324
Well, I'll tell you what, the real answer, for most logical, unbiased, painfully true critique is ENFJ. And they're good writers. It's just they almost never come right out and say that critique. Same with INFP, good writers and great critiquers, except INFP is actually more likely to say what they think, but just in such a quick, low voice, and then it's gone. I still say get them tipsy. Then you'll start hearing some things you didn't expect. Is it okay if the article is written drunk?
LOL you really don't need to flatter me so much, although you do it well, its nice to be flattered, and you r subtle abt it. I like you anyways. Meaning, I will like you even when you aren't flattering me.
 
Last edited:

Fluffywolf

Nips away your dignity
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
9,581
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I think INTP in general. Although an INTJ would probably give the critic way more head on and straight. An INTP might be able to bring the critisism at a less confrontational manner, but just enough for the person receiving the critisism not to shy away from it alltogether. Whereas many people would probably be intimidated by an INTJ's critisism to throw it all away without taking it into much or any consideration.
 

Maverick

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Apr 29, 2007
Messages
880
MBTI Type
ENTJ
I understand that is what you are saying. I do not mean to be obstinate or challenge your authority. However, I was hoping for more information in your answer.

I appreciate the consideration in your answer and will provide an explanation based on a definition of Extraverted Thinking:

http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/extravertedthinking.html said:
Empirical thinking is at the core of extraverted Thinking when we challenge someone’s ideas based on the logic of the facts in front of us or lay out reasonable explanations for decisions or conclusions made, often trying to establish order in someone else’s thought process
 

sunset5678

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
145
MBTI Type
XNTJ
My critique of TV last night was the so stupid it's scary kind of scary, murder and death
stories, infomercials and reality on Red Bull. I guess the people in charge of last night's
line up must have had brainlock like in that commercial...nothing remotely intelligent af-
ter King Of The Hill and The PJs ended.
 

Afkan

New member
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
324
I appreciate the consideration in your answer and will provide an explanation based on a definition of Extraverted Thinking:

Ah! Well, you were right- that is a simple explanation. And a very good argument.
 

Into It

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Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Messages
664
MBTI Type
ENFP
INTP hands-down.

INTJs will be prone to injecting too much of themselves and will approach the subject as it relates to purpose. INTPs will just analyze it for what it is, which will lead to more accurate criticism.

Edit: It follows that if you need the criticism to change the course of a project, then the INTJ would be preferable.
 

Provoker

Permabanned
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
252
MBTI Type
INTJ
After considering the question of who is the best critic, INTJs or INTPs, the correct answer is that it depends. The question is: what does it depend on? It depends primarily on what is being subject to criticism and the context in which it is called into question. Let's begin with the importance of context. I can picture an INTJ moving a fridge through an awkward doorway and an INTP sitting in an arm chair shouting instructions or criticizing how the INTJ is moving it. Most things in life are easier to look at objectively when you don't have a vested stake in the matter. Yet I'm convinced that if you put an INTJ and INTP in a similar scenario with two sets of rooms and doors to move the fridges through, the INTJ will do it faster and more efficiently. This is so because the INTJ is more likely to endorse an empirical/experimental/active approach than a rational/deductive/speculative one which is often more effective in a circumstance like this. It should be noted that due to a long history of Jness, the INTJ too could be highly critical as an outside observer. A difference, however, is that the INTJ is more likely to get up and help and/or show how it could be done more effectively. Thus, I think it can be broadly established that INTJs are more critical of ideas that have no basis in empirical fact. A history of INTJness affords them a library of experiences of what works and doesn't work which they are constantly drawing from and building on. However, their Jness is also a psychological bias that is conducive to goals and action but may result in the loss of greater objectivity. In other words, the indifference afforded by Pness gives INTPs the space to look at something comparatively more dispassionately than the INTJ. In certain affairs that are beyond the goals and intellectual interests of the INTJ, this comparatively more indifferent and dispassionate approach can be a source for better criticisms. On the other hand, the criticisms generating by Ne and Ti may not be as elaborate and comprehensive as those generated by Ni and Te. Thus, the sorts of criticisms are also going to be different. As an INTJ, I enjoy the criticisms of other INTJs since we're on the same page and, although working towards different goals we follow a similar process. Thus, any criticism that makes us more efficient in that process and more bulletproof intellectually is constructive criticism. Thus, ultimately answering who is the best critic depends on the criterion of what constitutes the best critic.
 
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